Talk:List of characters in Bully/Archive 8

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Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Contents

Freaks

Resolved. As per the decision not to make the article a list of each and every character in the show, a list of freaks/carnival types won't be needed.

Don't you think we should make a category that has all the freaks form the freak show in it?I mean,we have one for the orderlies and theres only four of them.So I figure that we should have one for the freaks since some of them are named.I'll get right on finding out what there names are.63.166.254.137 (talk) 05:01, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Are they not listed in the townsfolk section? 81.154.247.72 (talk) 05:05, 22 February 2008 (UTC) --- User:Dan the Man1983
I can only find the siamese twins in the town section.But even if they were,I'm asking for there own category,since there just as important characters as the townsfolk.63.166.254.137 (talk) 05:26, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
Sounds good to me. Dan the Man1983 (talk) 05:40, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
Make a section for the carnival crew, which would include the freaks. There's a few different barkers, there's the midget in the dunk tank, a girl midget who wanders around the grounds occasionally... 06:53, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
Not to forget the woman in jeans and a grey low-cut top.She can be seen at the High Striker game stall.And the man in the Souvenir tent?Paul 1953 (talk) 11:47, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
yeah and the people at the game stalls,and 06:53,that one woman I don't think can be considered part of the carnival crew.I can't help but think of all the people we've listed here,were forgetting someone..............63.166.254.137 (talk) 05:06, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
Who art thou anyway? But,maybe you are right.The midget shouldn't be included.She has no role in the carnival.Paul 1953 (talk) 14:47, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
She is townsfolk aint she?? Dan the Man1983 (talk) 18:18, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
No, she's not townsfolk because she never appears in town. She's affiliated with the Carnival because that's the only place she appears. McJeff (talk) 20:37, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
Yeah but its been stated she has no role in the carnival, so maybe we can put her down as "midget woman who only appears at carnival". Dan the Man1983 (talk) 20:47, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
If she never appears in the town, how can she be "townsfolk"? Just because she doesn't WORK at the carnival doesn't necessarily mean she's not affiliated with it. Maybe she's the wife of the midget who works in the dunking booth or something. Seriously. She's Carnival. McJeff (talk) 18:53, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Hey,it's me,decided to create an account,anyway That's still considered townsfolk,if she's in the carnival,just because she doesn't appear anywhere else in town,since she has no role in the carnival,she's townsfolk.Le Rusecue (talk) 00:20, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Welcome to Wiki then. To be honest I don't have much knowledge on who's who at the Carnival since I hardly go there in game. I'm always hanging and messing around on campus. I say people who work at the carnival are still townsfolk cause they don't live in the carnival, they just work there. Dan the Man1983 (talk) 19:24, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
I haven't felt like playing Bully for a good while, but next time I get it out I'll go to the carnival and get descriptions of the people there like I did for the regular townsfolk. McJeff (talk) 19:47, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Well,dans right,they don't live there,but most of them can only be SEEN there.Oh nad if we do puut the midget woman there,her names Brandy,I know this because today at walmart I was in the games section and there was a scholorship edition game guide there and I scanned through it,it had a mmission on there where it said,destroy th lawn gnomes for Brandy and it had a picture of her in a cutscene.Just thought I'd tell you all.63.166.254.137 (talk) 05:47, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Things that need to be cut/Things you don't like or agree with etc etc discussion.

Resolved. Page has since went through a massive clean up

If you feel or see that some things from the article that needs to be cut then list them here, before doing any drastic deleting.

Its better to discuss things before making any changes and it makes editing here easier.

Anyone got any views and opinions?

Also list what you don't like with the article. Dan the Man1983 (talk) 20:53, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

It needs condensing in my view. Not every character is instantly notable just because they are in the game. Read a game guide, or play the game yourself: and you will notice many of the people listed have brief roles in the game. Each character has about a paragraph towards them, and it's just plot summary of their brief roles in the game. While I havent played the game myself (for a while), I'm sure others have. The sole purpose of these character lists isn't to be a "catch-all" to list every character in the game. RobJ1981 (talk) 23:35, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
So, you think that not every character needs a paragraph about them. What then, do you suggest we do with the article instead? McJeff (talk) 18:55, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
Yeah would like to hear your views Rob since it was you who did suggest the article needed a clean up in the first place. Dan the Man1983 (talk) 19:26, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Off topic but I commented on why Vicious and Delicious should be kept for one reason, I am a wrestling fan and was a fan of WCW from early 90's until it ended. Not because McJeff told me too, Infact that may be the reason he asked me to since he knew I was a fan of Wrestling. Dan the Man1983 (talk) 19:42, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
    • Yeah, the fact that you've got a "This User likes WWE" block was a tip-off. That and the fact that we had a discussion about exactly what kind of piledriver Juri was using. McJeff (talk) 19:46, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
      • I just felt I needed to state that clearly since I wasn't here to comment further and was away for the last few days of last week until yesterday. Dan the Man1983 (talk) 19:55, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
Personally I like the way the article is, But I need to state my 2 cents on what to do if we were to clean up the article.
Wikipedia is an ecyclopedia. Isn't it encyclopedic to state what the characters look like and state a few characteristics? I don't see anything game guide in that.
There is no how to's in the article, errands were deleted from characters since they were game guide like. If the brief roles are considered game guide then maybe we should discuss on deleting them or not.
Now onto characters themselves, Personally I think every student, prefect and teacher are notable enough to be stated and listed down. If we decide to clean up the article, I vote deleting the townsfolk, orderlies, police officers and shopkeepers section since they bare really no importance in the game what so ever. Dan the Man1983 (talk) 00:29, 2 March 2008 (UTC)


(Undent) The reason I think the list of characters is important here is because it was a very big selling point of Bully to begin with that all the characters had unique personalities.

--Warning - slightly-off-topic rant to follow--

Now, lemme say - I'm an extreme inclusionist when it comes to wikipedia. It irritates the hell out of me when I go to check an article and see "article deleted - non noteworthy person". Happens a lot in pro wrestling. Happened to the Jennifer Thomas article (a girl wrestler in OVW who I was looking forward to seeing in WWE - wanted to see what happened to her when WWE and OVW ended their affiliation, boom, "page deleted - non noteworthy wrestler"... goddammit), happened to Genki Horiguchi twice even though he's been in a fed bigger than NWA-TNA since 1999, and I'm frankly shocked that Vicious and Delicious survived the PROD. I consider deletionism to be borderline vandalism at times.

I know someone's about to link me to WP:NOT, even though there's a policy essay that says you shouldn't do that, you should carefully and fully explain why a certain article violates WP:NOT. I also know that you're not supposed to argue "It's not hurting anything" in favor of keeping info. But that's just the thing - it's not hurting anyone.

So where is this furor in favor of decreasing the size of the article coming from? Is the information unsourced? No. Is the information inaccurate? No. Is the article full of speculation and weasel words? No. Does the grammar suck? No. Is the information useless? No.

The only thing there is to complain about in the article is that it is long, and quite frankly, there is no reason to be complaining about. McJeff (talk) 02:48, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Let me just clarify that I ain't in favour in decreasing the size of the article, I just listed my 2 cents on what needs to be done if we ever was told to clean it up again in the future.
I think I also proved a few points that all characters are encylopedic enough to stay. I also pointed out that there are no game guide issues. What it looks like to me is a long encyclopedic list of character in a popular video game, Its also well sourced and well written.
Infact there is nothing wrong with the article. I just wish people who stick tags or say its too long etc etc at least explain the reasons why. Dan the Man1983 (talk) 03:34, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
Ahhhh the unique personalities of every character, Another reason why that all characters should be listed is because every model of character is different, with their own voice, name, personlity.
It is not like GTA where you could see 4 or 5 of the same pedestrian spawn on a single road. Dan the Man1983 (talk) 03:42, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia simply isn't the guide to every little thing, period. If that were the case, no deletions would happen and it would be an anarchy. Copyright infringements, articles such as "what I did today" and other garbage would flood the site. Sometimes inclusionists need to realize: guidelines are in place for good reasons. But to talk about the subject at hand: a list of everyone in the game simply isn't needed. Just because all character models are different, doesn't change notability. Bully is full of characters, but not all appear in the game much. Take it to a gaming wiki instead. It's not hurting anyone is an excuse, and not a reason to keep things. Lots of things don't hurt anyone: that doesn't mean they are within Wikipedia policies. Ignoring policies, just so this list includes everyone isn't the way to go. Of course people working on the article will support the article "be left alone" because it's their work. As I stated before: you are claiming ownership in my view. Your attitude seems to be "it's not hurting anyone, so leave it be because I've done a lot of work on it". Articles are for everyone to edit, and the section about "New People stopping by to edit" is a bit uncivil and bad faith. RobJ1981 (talk) 17:33, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
I haven't played the game, but it seems Rob's right. Indiscriminately listing people is not what Wikipedia for, even if "it doesn't hurt". Ideally, the list should be cut down, only mentioning relevant characters. The only problem there is what the criteria for "relevant" is, who determines it and on what basis. Again, I haven't played the game, so I'm making the assumption that such characters are so minor to be regarded as "irrelevant". Ashnard Talk Contribs 17:53, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
If you are worried about people assuming bad faith - maybe that's because you're assuming bad faith when you come in here, talking down to myself and Dan, bludgeoning us with WP:NOT and accusing us of violating WP:OWN? You seem to think that I don't understand wiki policy. Wrong. This list is not in violation of wiki policy. I explain why the article is fine, the list is fine, and you just keep coming back to accusing us of WP:OWN. You utterly fail to state any other position other than "it's too long and unneeded". You don't justify your position with anything other than unexplained references to WP:NOT.
I'm going to diret you to WP:SAL, specifically, the sentence that says The one exception is for list articles that are created explicitly because the listed items do not warrant independent articles: an example of this is List of minor characters in Dilbert. I believe this official wikipedia policy supports the existence of a complete list of characters.
I'll also note that it's already been decided that an article called List of characters in Bully is noteworthy, and I don't know of any wikipedia policy that says not to add info to a useful article in order to keep the length down. If there is one, maybe you'd like to link me to it? It might be a helpful guideline on what info should stay in the article and what should go. McJeff (talk) 18:24, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
WP: INDISCRIMINATE applies here. If you want direction on how to improve the article, look at featured content of a similar nature, such as Characters of Kingdom Hearts. Ashnard Talk Contribs 18:33, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
Thanks. I was using the GTA:SA character lists as a reference, but this page is much better. McJeff (talk) 18:56, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
Agreed. This article needs a significant edit. --Fredrick day (talk) 18:02, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
Article looks much better in my opinion, Now that the townsfolk, police, carnival and orderlies have been deleted. Dan the Man1983 (talk) 06:11, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
I got rid of statements that states for which team certain students play dodgeball on since they appear to be game guide content. Dan the Man1983 (talk) 07:08, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
The current version is still way too long. This is a single game, not a series, and there's no way we that every character from every group is important to get a paragraph. My suggestion is to take all the "groups" and get those down to one paragraph each. You can mention the major players from each gang that strongly influence the story (not just those that give out a mission or the like), and just name others, but most of these characters need a sentence or less about them. I know that the various GTA character articles are in a similar state, and these are not good. As someone mentioned above, see how Characters in Kingdom Hearts does it (the minor characters in each area are summarized in one or two paragraphs). Alternatively, the character section in Saints Row is grouped by gangs and is short and sweet. Remember, we are not a replacement for playing the game (that's why we aren't a game guide, nor do we give excessive plot details), but instead should be writing enough about the plot to establish who characters are in the game to identify their importance to the game's development and reception; I'm pretty sure that some of the minor group characters fail to meet this. --MASEM 12:54, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
Tell me what you think of this as a way of doing the sections. I'm using the Nerds subsection as a thing to work with.
The Nerds
The Nerds are, as their clique name implies, a group of stereotypical nerds. Overweight or underweight, posessing of poor grooming and social skills, and bespectacled to the last man, the nerds are at the bottom of the pecking order at Bullworth Academy. They are the sworn enemies of the bullies and jocks and are hounded by members of those cliques constantly, but the preppies and greasers are not above singling nerds out for punishment. They are the only clique to regularly attend classes, and they congregate in the Bullworth library and the Dragon's Wing Comic Book Store outside of class.
When Jimmy fights the Nerds, the song that plays is a variation on the Revenge of the Nerds theme song.
The leader of the nerds is Ernest Jones. Intelligent and well groomed by nerd standards, he's also decidedly immoral and something of a horndog. Jimmy gets on his good side early in the school year, when he protects Ernest while he gives a speech during the school presidential elections. Later on, Ernest creates complicated plans to humiliate the Jocks, all of which require extensive help from Jimmy. They also require revealing pictures of Mandy, the head cheerleader, although why the pictures are needed is never explained by Ernest.
Algernon "Algie" Papadopoulis is one of the most visable students on campus. A chubby nerd with curly red hair and a weak bladder, he is considered to be the least cool student in the entire school - even by the Principal.
The clique is rounded out by Melvin O'Connor, a chubby Grottoes and Gremlins fanatic. Donald Anderson, undersized even by nerd standards and bitter. Thad Carlson, who speaks with a lisp and is fixated on yardsticks. Bucky Pasteur, Cornelius Johnson, and finally Fatty Johnson (no relation to Cornelius), who is notorious through the school for his terrible body odor.
If the above is more suitable for the article, the thing could be easily made about 1/4th the size it is currently. McJeff (talk) 18:39, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
That's better, but there's a couple things to consider. First, be careful of speculative trivia; the reference to the Revenge of the Nerds, in this case, if it can be sourced, great, but I'd avoid including such unless it's patently obvious (I can't remember the theme so I cannot say for sure). The second point is more the style - you want to avoid writing from an in-universe perspective, and that means avoiding some of the more flowery, descriptive writing. Based on your condensing above, I would go further to write this as:
The Nerds are stereotypical nerds that are the bottom of the pecking order of the other cliques at Bullsworth. The group is lead by the somewhat perverted Ernest Jones, who befriends Jimmy during school elections early in the year after requesting Jimmy's help to protect him from the Bullies and the Jocks, and later tries to enlist Jimmy in a plan to humiliate the Jocks. Jimmy also becomes pals with Algernon "Algie" Papadopoulis is chubby and has a weak bladder, and is recognized as the "least cool student" in all of Bullsworth, even by the Principal. Other Nerds include Melvin O'Connor, a role-playing game fanatic, Donald Anderson, undersized and bitter even by nerd standards, Thad Carlson, who speaks with a lisp, Fatty Johnson, who is notorious for his body odor, Bucky Pasteur and Cornelius Johnson.
It doesn't have to be this exact language, but note that using wikilinks where appropriate helps to avoid having to describe what a stereotypical nerd looks like (and I just checked that nerd actually does this). Just think about taking a step back and treating these descriptions less like you're involved with the game and that you're making Cliff notes for it instead. --MASEM 18:53, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
I gotta admit that does look a lot cleaner then having a list of all characters written down. Dan the Man1983 (talk) 21:54, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Maybe the Bully entry can go like this.

The Bullies are the only clique who does not care about the pecking order on campus, and only care about making the lives of weaker and smaller students miserable. The clique is led by a hulking brute named "Russell Northrop", who is the strongest and biggest student in the school. Jimmy becomes enemies of the Bullies instantly because he is the "new meat" at Bullworth. They are enemies of the Nerds who they bully and beat up constanly. The other clique members include the blond bixesual Trent, the dim witted Troy, the freshman tormentor Davis, the African American martial arts fan Ethan, the Nerd hating Wade and the black eyed Tom. Dan the Man1983 (talk) 22:23, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, that's exactly a good approach for it, or at least a start. I would say if you do that for all the cliques first, then you've got something that is much closer to being good. Do remember that if there isn't already, you can move the current character lists to an offsite wiki (Wikia is one) to create a more detailed Bully wiki where these longer descriptions that currently exist are just fine. --MASEM 22:36, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
We can do that after fixing this article - make an external link to the site with more in-depth descriptions. It's not like the long version of the article is lost. McJeff (talk) 02:01, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
I just created an account there, Same username as here. Dan the Man1983 (talk) 02:54, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Hey,let me just say,this article used to be great to me,used to list every character in the game,now,it's screwed up!That was nothing like a guide,it was infromational,I think that we should put the townsfolk section back,and list all the characters again,but thats my opinion.Also,why did you all change it around alot,sure it was long,but it's wikipedia,its supposed to be long!Of course,thats my opinion.63.166.254.137 (talk) 01:35, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Actually,never mind,it's okay for wikipedia,but can someone atleast make a wikia?or make a link to a site that lists all the characters?Thats all im askin for. -THE RUSECUELe Rusecue (talk) 01:55, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

There is a wikia community on Bully, However it looks like the person who created never bothered with anything on it. Im thinking of going to wikia and reviving it and making it much better. Dan the Man1983 (talk) 14:13, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
Yeah. We can put the info that was too in-depth for wikipedia on the Bully wiki and link it from this page. McJeff (talk) 16:03, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
This is the link in question[1]. We can create the List of characters page on there, Plus i have an idea for another page too, But thats gonna need a lot of work and editing on my part. Dan the Man1983 (talk) 16:53, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Hey,heres a suggestion,why don't we all go on the wikia and add stuff to it,hey Dan,I'm gonna make the characters section,okay?Also,i'm gonna add the carnival crew is that okay?63.166.254.137 (talk) 20:43, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Do as you wish, You don't exactly need permission from me, I don't own the page. Dan the Man1983 (talk) 21:03, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Okay,I added it,but someone fixed it up,whoever did that thanks,anyway i'm gonna go add the carnival crew section before I go to work,also i'm thinking about creating a section on missions,or would that be to game guide like?63.166.254.137 (talk) 05:34, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Over at wikia, I broke the article up into many sections so its easier to read. The page was just too long, you have about 2 cliques on each page now. Tomorrow I will do a clean up on all pages. Dan the Man1983 (talk) 12:27, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Dan,I have no idea how this article would be without you.I'm gonna go ahead and add the carnival crew,also,how should we list the townie Henry.If your wondering what I mean,In the games cutscene in scholorship,Jimmy calls him Clint in the cutscenes.Ex."Come on Clint,you know were friends." So how should we list him?63.166.254.137 (talk) 20:05, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

"It is not like GTA where you could see 4 or 5 of the same pedestrian spawn on a single road."

I have to say you are wrong. I've seen dozens of Orderlies (Gregory), Policemen (especially Officer Monson) and I've seen two of Miss Peabody spawns.Paul 1953 (talk) 10:06, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

No I am not wrong. You don't see 4 Algies spawn around the library, or 5 Russells spawn in the parking lot do you? Thats what its like in GTA with ped In GTA you see the same ped spawn about 4 or 5 times in the same stretch of a street, In Bully you may see one student in front of campus and may not see him or her spawn again when your half way round the other side. Dan the Man1983 (talk) 22:59, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Scholorship edition

Today I was in Wal-Mart and I saw the bully game guide and I learned quite a few things about the game,first off,they have multiplayer games such as Chemistry(Wii only) Nut Blaster(Xbox 360 only) and music.In the multiplayer games form the images I saw on th guide,the second player will be Gary.The name of the female midget in the carnival is Brandy.and the new music teachers name is mrs. Peters.and I couldn't read all of it but I think it introduces a new Hobo dressed in a santa suit named Rudy.there are four new missions to the 3rd chapter,one new for the 2nd chapter.and I think by the image it showed,that it is possible to actually see the nameless hobo get abducted,out of the cutscene.Le Rusecue (talk) 06:03, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

scorchered (talk) 09:06, 3 March 2008 (UTC) Yeah, they say theres gonna be a number of new characters, 4 I think, possibally adding more to the cliques.

Various articles that meet WP:RS

  • http://www.1up.com/do/feature?cId=3155813 article from 1up.com. Interview with Jeronimo Barrera (one of the writers of Bully) explaining how Jimmy was supposed to be an "everyman" kind of kid. Late in the interview he also said Bully and Jimmy were influenced by Catcher in the Rye.
EGM: What were some of the influences...?
JB: ...For me, it was Catcher in the Rye, something that I read when I was young because it was supposed to be controversial and all this stuff, and boy, this is just about a kid just like me.
Rockstar Games used The Catcher in the Rye as an inspiration to set up the boarding school environment for the game Bully. The main protagonist of the game, Jimmy Hopkins, calls his stepfather a phony at the beginning of the game, most likely as an homage to Holden Caulfield. —Preceding unsigned comment added by McJeff (talk • contribs) 00:12, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Characters that get their own writeups

Resolved. Done through clean up.
  • Jimmy Hopkins
  • Gary Smith
  • Petey Kowalski
  • Russell Northrop
  • Zoe Taylor
  • Dr. Crabblesnitch

Seperate sections for prefects, faculty and staff, maybe a section explaining the non-clique students but not bothering to name any of them. McJeff (talk) 02:40, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

What has changed

A nice comparison of what we had two days ago with what we have now. [2]

This article doesn't have a to-do list, so I'm kinda working blind here. But here's what's been done.

  • Cleaned up and condensed the cliques to 3-4 paragraphs each
  • Completely rewrote Jimmy Hopkins, with references and links to real world sources
  • Deleted all the townspeople etc.

What still needs to be done.

  • Rewrite (possibly) the entries for Gary, Petey, Russel and Zoe/Zoey. I cannot remmeber which way her name's spelled, my brain's pretty well fried right now.
  • Write a lead to the article explaining how one of Bully's drawing points was how each and every character had a unique personality.
  • I dug up a link on Answer.com that talked about the Jimmy/Holden Caulfield similarities, but I wasn't sure how to cite answer.com or even if it's a reliable source, so I threw a Fact tag in there.
  • Same with the Revenge of the Nerds theme song part. It's easy to tell, but I don't know if it's possible to include it while staying clear of OR.

I strongly do not think that the section on name discrepancies should be deleted. Before that section was written, there were frequent edit battles over the last names of the students mentioned in that section.

That's all... I'm probably gonna take a break from working on this for a day or so, before I get tired and start making mistakes. McJeff (talk) 03:54, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

You did a good job. Dan the Man1983 (talk) 04:02, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Ive gone over the article and checked spelling, Only a few mistakes occured, mostly to do with the names Zoe, Earnest and the surname Brakus. So I just corrected them. Dan the Man1983 (talk) 04:10, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, I was a bit brainfried by the end. You didn't even notice the part where I gave half the Preppies the last name of Smith.McJeff (talk) 04:32, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
And with all this work, the moaners and complainers are nowhere to be seen. *sigh* McJeff (talk) 03:07, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
I think the current page is a very strong improvement and pretty much fixes the majority of the problems that others have stated. The only change I would make is to, at least currently, move the first section to after the rest, beyond any other copyedits to the existing text. --MASEM 03:18, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
That moaners and complainers comment wasn't needed, and a bit uncivil in my view. Anyway, I agree the article is much better. Hopefully it remains that way, once the scholarship edition comes out. It's been confirmed there is some new characters in that. RobJ1981 (talk) 19:07, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
That came out here in the UK today, However I for one cannot purchase the game since my XBOX 360 suffered the 3 red lights of death 2 or 3 weeks ago. However ive read about the game and heard it freezes and crashes a lot. Dan the Man1983 (talk) 17:31, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
I've seen comparison videos between the PS2, XBOX360 and Wii version. Jimmy has pale shades in the PS2, darker in the Wii and 360. Main comparison between 360 and Wii is Jimmy's eyebrows are less obvious and he has a more "grown-up" look. Just search for


From what ive seen I like the new graphics updates and ive seen the new missions on youtube, but they dont impress me much. Since I got no XBOX 360 and don't trust another one breaking on me, I'll be getting a PS3 and will wait fot GTA 4. Dan the Man1983 (talk) 14:34, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Not very helpful

Resolved. Personal section were okay, but the article the way it is now, suits wikipedia better

I really think the personal sections for each student were far better than the new thing thats going on here —Preceding unsigned comment added by Joelasaurus (talk • contribs) 10:20, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Im planning to edit the old page and list and a list of many other things about the game on wikia soon. The article the way it is now is better for wikipedia standards. Dan the Man1983 (talk) 13:52, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Bully on wikia.com

http://bullygame.wikia.com

Because the wikia about Bully is specificly for Bully and not regulated as harshly as Wikipedia is, the characters can be described over there. Including the info that some people were very bent on having in the article, like that thing about Tad's mom owning a Mapplethorpe picture, or that thing where Hal occasionally says "After Russell beats you I'm gonna sit on you" even though he's a Greaser not a bully.

McJeff (talk) 23:11, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

That whole quote that Hal says is wrong for a start, so it should never be added, whoever though that Hal mentions Russell is in the quote misheard it. "Ater I'm done hitting you, I'm gonna sit on you", There is no other quote similar to that. Why would Hal mention Russell anyways? Dan the Man1983 (talk) 00:16, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
He says both. He says the thing about Russell very rarely, I've only heard him say it a couple times, but I swear to god he says it. And a couple anonymous IPs have edited the old version of the article to put that quote in, so it's not just me. McJeff (talk) 21:29, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
I think its a case of people mishearing the quote, He does not mention Russell in his quote. It sounds like he does but he dosen't. I'd put money on the fact. Its like the debates here a year ago about Tom being Bullworth mascot. Why would a Greaser mention a Bully in the same sense that why would a Bully would be a mascot for the Jocks. Dan the Man1983 (talk) 06:41, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
Dude no offense but you're being like that random guy who was insisting that Kirby was gay not bi because he'd never seen Kirby with a girl and refused to believe it happened. Hal does say the thing about Russell. Seriously, make a topic about it on Gamefaqs asking how many people have heard him say it or something. The Tom being the mascot thing was my bad but an honest mistake. After you beat up Constantinos and take his costume, he has a black eye like Tom's, plus they both have black hair which is kinda rare at Bullworth. McJeff (talk) 13:29, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
Dude you couldnt tell between the accents? Between Constatinos miserable voice and Tom's thick New York accent. The biggest give away of all. I don't need to make a topic for it, I'll just take your word for it. Still don't understand why he would mention Russell though? Dan the Man1983 (talk) 14:16, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
Probably an old version of the character was a Bully and that line got left in. Like in GTA:SA when CJ sometimes talks about "Orange Grove Families", even though OGF didn't make the final version of the game... who knows. But it's not like other characters haven't been changed somewhere earlier in the game, like Pedro being on the Facebook in the blue sweater vest, those two nameless jocks (I think they're just early versions of Damon and Ted), or even in the really early pictures of the game, none of those kids in them made the final version. McJeff (talk) 16:41, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
I think OGF was the gang's main name and that Grove St, Temple Drive and Seville Bld families were the sets. I remember Sweet mentioning set tripping too. If you remember the Ballas have sets too, Kilo Trays, Front Yard and Rollin Heights, Theres also Temple Drive Ballas, who came along when CJ went into exile and the OGF disappeared. Bloods and Crips in LA have sets.
If you look closely at an old screenshot of Bully you can see that many students were gonna wear them blue sweaters, Even the Bullies were, The original plan for Bully was that Jimmy was gonna be an antagonistic Bully. 81.156.220.242 (talk) 17:34, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
We could have guides like game mechanics too, Another thing that was abandoned from this article and rightly so. Dan the Man1983 (talk) 00:18, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Cruftcreep

I invented the word Cruftcreep just now to describe the way small details of questionable encyclopedicness work their way into articles of this nature. That was actually what lead to the state of the article where RobJ1981 claimed that Dan and I were violating WP:OWN - continually deleting cruftcreep from fly-by editors.

Before the article ends up in the state it was before the Big Redo, and before any edit wars happen, I think we ought to establish consensus about what details about students are fit to include. Using Characters of Kingdom Hearts as a guide, I think the article is fairly good the way it is, and doesn't need much expanding. The exception being if someone can drag up some secondary party sources for things like the comparison of the Greasers to The Outsiders.

But while sitting on the article and quick reverting every change the fly-bys make, I don't think allowing cruftcreep is any good either. So if there's anything to discuss, here is the place to do it. McJeff (talk) 22:23, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

We deleted cruft to keep the article neat, Infact most of our edits was neatening the article. Also time and time again editors came back and edited in the same useless information that was deleted again and again.
Earlier last week, I changed a few things on Algernon, first of all I thought that stating he was one of the most visable students on campus was a bit game mechanical in my opinion, so it was deleted and I added in a huge factor of his, He is one of the most, if not the most tormented student on campus. I also added the fact in that he is a mothers boy.
Factors that need to be included is their role in the game obviously and maybe something about their personality. Not a lot but a little.
If were gonna expand on anything, I personally think the Non clique students and Little kids should be at least named, Apart from Constantinos and Eunice. They play hardly no role in the story, But they at least should be named. Apart from that the article is fine as it is and dosen't really need expansion at all. Dan the Man1983 (talk) 23:48, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Nemesis not villain.

Resolved. It's been decided and agreed that nemesis should be used instead of villain

There seems to be a revert war on wether Crabblesnitch should be stated as a nemesis or a villain.

In the past 24 hours or so. The term nemesis has changed to villain a few times. It was changed by some ISP address to villain, McJeff changed it back to nemesis, Rob then changed it to villain, McJeff put it back to nemesis stating reasons why, Rob has changed to back to villain stating his reasons why.. So I have changed it back to villain for a simple reason and I will explain why.

He should be stated as a nemesis, a villain in a video game is someone who opposes and normally fights against the game hero, and does dispicable and spiteful things in the process. In this case the main villain in the game is Gary and not Crabblesnitch. It's true that Crabblesnitch does oppose Jimmy, but Jimmy does not fight him, A teacher who opposes a student because he dislikes him or her because of his/her behaviour is not a villain, The teacher is a nemesis. Dan the Man1983 (talk) 06:17, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

This shouldn't even be a discussion. In his edit summary Rob said "this shouldn't be such a big deal", but he's the one who's making the big deal out of it. Nemesis is the proper word, I already explained why that is. McJeff (talk) 12:01, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
Should be a discussion if a revert war is gonna start, Since there is back and forth edits on it, I started this disucussion so that you, me and Rob can put our 2 cents down on the subject. 217.44.183.240 (talk) 12:40, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
BTW, just for clarifications sake, the information itself is sourced and has nemesis stated, not villain. Dan the Man1983 (talk) 12:44, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, the article itself says nemesis, so this article should say nemesis too. 75.148.25.169 (talk) 14:09, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
So it's agreed then, It should stay as nemesis and not villain. Dan the Man1983 (talk) 16:03, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
Yes, and hopefully Rob will be able to refrain from making trouble, although I have no hopes of that since he's so adept at disguising his bad faith with wikipedia policy. McJeff (talk) 00:40, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
I got nothing against him personally, but what got me with the whole issues in the past is that he stated and accused me and you with WP:OWN at least 3 or 4 times. He sounded like a broken record. Dan the Man1983 (talk) 01:42, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
That and the "bad faith" accusations. I guess he didn't read the part where it says continually accusing others of bad faith is itself bad faith. McJeff (talk) 02:26, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
By bashing me here, you are assuming bad faith.. so stop both of you. Obsessively watching the article and changing any little thing (such as this villain/nemesis nonsense) is ownership. Any little thing you don't agree with, you change and then complain here about. If that's not ownership, what is it? It certainly isn't productive to the article to only allow edits by the main two editors that work on it. RobJ1981 (talk) 06:04, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
Now you're just wikilawyering. Maintaining the quality of the article is NOT a WP:OWN violation, and you know that - you're only doing this so you have a chance to lambaste McJeff and Dan Da Man1983. You're the one that needs to "stop it". 75.148.25.169 (talk) 13:36, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
Sick of hearing these WP:OWN issues everytime there is a debate with him. He should at least change the record. Dan the Man1983 (talk) 21:49, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
Perhaps if you and McJeff would stop acting so rudely to just about any edit you don't agree with, then my attitude would change. This section is just one example of your poor attitudes. RobJ1981 (talk) 22:55, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
If you feel someone is being rude, then take it up with an admin, if not stop wikilawyering and accusing people of WP:OWN. Dan the Man1983 (talk) 23:01, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
I'm taking it up with him personally on his talk page. As this begins to have nothing to do with the article, perhaps it's time to drop it here? McJeff (talk) 02:40, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
Has something to do with the article if he is accusing people of owning it. I got nothing personal against him, I just don't like being accused of something I aint doing. Like being rude or owning the page. Dan the Man1983 (talk) 02:46, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Im gonna prove a point.

Resolved. Disagreement sorted out.

Ok if this

  • "He appears more in the plot of Bully Scholarship Edition"

is in violation of WP:NOT#GUIDE, then so is this

  • "The only non-clique student who contributes anything of significance to the plot is Constantinos Brakus"

Basically saying the same thing. Dan the Man1983 (talk) 17:13, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

I get your point. I'm just a little concerned about people going through the article and noting every change that was made in Scholarship Edition. McJeff (talk) 17:28, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
I understand your concern my friend, but it is the same game, just an updated version. Dan the Man1983 (talk) 17:34, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
Actually I think the subject of Bully SE and its numerous changes from the PS2 version should be discussed, since a few characters do have bigger plots in the updated version then they did in the ps2 version. Like do we add Eunice's name on the article, since her plot from Bully SE is bigger then it was in the PS2 version, since she is in Music class with Jimmy and appears in the music concert mission in the new game. Dan the Man1983 (talk) 17:44, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
Tell you what. Since I haven't played scholarship edition, I'll just not edit anything in regards to scholarship edition, since I'm not exactly qualified. Wouldn't wanna violate WP:OWN... lol. McJeff (talk) 19:50, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
I haven't played neither, just saw new missions on youtube and they weren't much. I think we should leave the article as it is. Dan the Man1983 (talk) 22:32, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Proposal

I am thinking perhaps we (Daniel,McJeff and me) should leave this Wikipedia article to RobJ1981 and that person with a IP address, while we three turn to Bully Wikia and continue the editing right there.
Fact is, you people may have noticed, that I have not made a single edit (pardon me if I'm wrong) since the article was shortened.Paul 1953 (talk) 09:20, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
Rob hasn't been back here since a dispute. I will continue to work on both articles, here and at Wikia. Dan the Man1983 (talk) 16:55, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
Oh dear.Paul 1953 (talk) 05:15, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
What is wrong?? Dan the Man1983 (talk) 06:02, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
I work on lots of articles on wikipedia and I've got this one in my watchlist. I don't do much heavy editing on it anymore because right now we've got a B-class article and because of a lack of secondary sources there's really not much more that can be done with it. See, ideally we'd get some sources to make Gary relevant in a real world context like we did with Jimmy, but since Gary's just a character the game designers dreamed up, there's nothing out there on him. Same with Russel and Dr. Crabblesnitch.
RobJ1981 - I'll see if I can put this in a way that's neither tenditious nor bad faith. He holds a philosophy that wikipedia requires intensive regulation of information to enforce quality over quantity, and uses extremely strict adherence to the rules and policies to regulate content. He's not the only editor like that on wikipedia. That's why he's done the same thing he did here with lots of other articles.
And random IPs have always been a problem for this article. I revert probably 95% of IP edits because they do things like change Tad's last name, insert cruftcreep details, or just stick some misspelled incoherent sentence on the end.
So I agree that we probably ought to be putting work into the Bully wikia. But I'll be sticking around here and continuing to watch this article and improve where needed. McJeff (talk) 15:18, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
I'll watch this article incase of vandalism or stupid edits. But most of my recent work here goes on Boxing and Tennis articles now. I might even dabble in wrestling articles soon. I did a lot of recent work at Bully wikia and going through the process of adding a random quotes list to each students article over there. Still a lot of work to be done over there. Then again there is some random IP changing things over there too, and his stuff gets reverted now. Anyways see you guys over there. Dan the Man1983 (talk) 09:24, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
Knock it off already McJeff. I havent edited here a while, so there wasn't any reason for that attack on me. RobJ1981 (talk) 20:18, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
RobJ1981 - I'll see if I can put this in a way that's neither tenditious nor bad faith. He holds a philosophy that wikipedia requires intensive regulation of information to enforce quality over quantity, and uses extremely strict adherence to the rules and policies to regulate content. He's not the only editor like that on wikipedia. That's why he's done the same thing he did here with lots of other articles.
That's what I said above. Looks like not only is it not a personal attack, but that I bent over backwards to represent your stance on wikipedia fairly and neutrally. McJeff (talk) 05:20, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
Seriously answer me this Rob, but how is McJeff's comments an attack on you? Just clarify why you think its an attack, because I must of read it 4 or 5 times, and I still don't see how that is an attack. Dan the Man1983 (talk) 05:24, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
I'll reply to this comment by McJeff: He holds a philosophy that wikipedia requires intensive regulation of information to enforce quality over quantity, and uses extremely strict adherence to the rules and policies to regulate content. I see that as an attack, and assuming my view on things (which isn't completely accurate). Article space isn't an issue with me much. In general on Wikipedia, articles can be long to a point. I don't think I've ever stated anything to the effect of "let's reduce all pages to good quality over quantity". Page cleanup was needed here, but people chose not to believe it... then after a struggle, cleanup did happen. There is policies that shouldn't be ignored, just because people think they need to discuss characters in great detail. Many paragraphs for a fictional character that appears a few times in a game, is not only clutter, but it's fancruft. Look at movie and TV articles, they've had similar cleanup over time. I remember with Heroes and Lost (as two big examples): they had huge pages, with detail by detail appearance descriptions. Wikipedia simply isn't the guide to every little detail, even if people want it to be. Just because Wikipedia isn't a paper encyclopedia, doesn't mean limits shouldn't exist. Policies shouldn't be ignored, in favor of just flooding an article to your own desire of having every detail in it. RobJ1981 (talk) 05:37, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
Well it wasn't intended as an attack, and so if you think it was I humbly apologize. But you're overrepresenting the statement in the first place, and adding things. I never said you demanded that articles be short. But you want good info, not excessive info and cruft. That's what I said, and that's what you yourself just said. McJeff (talk) 06:28, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
No it's not an attack, It's an opinion, His opinion on you. I dunno what it's like where your from, but where I'm from an attack is verbal or physical abuse, not a harmless opinion. Dan the Man1983 (talk) 05:45, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
How about Daniel and me edit on Wikia instead, while McJeff remains right here, or vice versa? Paul 1953 (talk) 02:07, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Oh, keeping an eye on this while focusing on Wikia isn't a problem for me. McJeff (talk) 05:01, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Look we can all edit at Wikia, while continuing our editing here. Dan the Man1983 (talk) 07:22, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Mily Trevor (2)

Resolved. Charater dosen't exist and topic really shouldn't of been brought up again.

"I've never heard of Mily Trevor and never seen her in the game. Sounds like some fan fiction to me but I'll just wait to hear everyone else's input on this before I take action. Lionheart08 21:54, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

It was vandalism. There's no Mily Trevor in the credits, ergo, she's not in the game. I edited it out. McJeff 01:16, 15 February 2007 (UTC)" There's something interesting in this conversation. Remember, there are some townsfolk who have yet to be named. It's possible "Mily Trevor" appeared in the game, and the name Mily Trevor was made up because whoever wrote the entry did not know which name was hers. I suggest we all try it out (Maybe when the author wrote "...after you complete it(the game)" , he meant 100.0% completion)Paul 1953 (talk) 07:46, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Could be. I'll keep an ear out for someone mentioning her. Though I wouldn't expect much - she was added as a student not a townsfolk, and she isn't listed in the credits. McJeff (talk) 00:38, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
Isn't this irrelevant now since townsfolk and other characters ain't listed in the article anymore? Dan the Man1983 (talk) 05:03, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
It could always be dumped on the Bully wikia. Welcome back, btw. McJeff (talk) 07:23, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
Thanks. I suppose it could be, if we knew who she was. Dan the Man1983 (talk) 21:31, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
Maybe "Mily Trevor" is Paris, who is voiced by Gaylord Rice? After all, Paris is a girl's name.Paul 1953 (talk) 12:38, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
I'm gonna reiterate that this character almost certainly doesn't exist. People regularly vandalize the article by adding characters that don't exist. McJeff (talk) 15:40, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, I remember some idiot added fan fiction characters for every clique more then once. I don't think Millie exists, Just like when people said there was a ghost in the game, Any of you remember them rumours and the arguments it caused on some forums? Dan the Man1983 (talk) 23:14, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
Yeah... one of the reasons I avoid the Bully board on Gamefaqs. McJeff (talk) 05:17, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
I hardly bother with them boards since the game has aged and everything has been talked about numerous times there. All you get there now is newbies asking hideous things. Dan the Man1983 (talk) 05:58, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

"After all, Paris is a girl's name."

Not always, its a unisex name, I knew a boy called Paris when I was a teenager. Dan the Man1983 (talk) 23:15, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't remember any "ghost in Bully", but I saw this video on YouTube where the user encountered Ivan Alexander without his colour palette, thus Ivan was just a white figure. So probably the "ghost" in Bully (may happen to anyone in the game) was the result of the game being unable to load the palette.Paul 1953 (talk) 10:54, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
No Paul, thats something completely different dude. The rumours about the ghost was that if you go down to the football field at midnight, the ghostly figure of a girl would appear walking the field. The rumour was that she was a student there and died at the school. Many people on forums would try and argue to convince others that it is true. Just like the bigfoot rumours in GTA SA. Dan the Man1983 (talk) 10:55, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
Of course it's a rumour. But anyway, I never even knew about any "gossip forums" on GameFAQs. Maybe we could check the forums for threads about Mily Trevor. Then we'll know "Mily Trevor" is just another silly rumour.Paul 1953 (talk) 03:35, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
I think we all know she is a just a rumour without checking forums dude. Dan the Man1983 (talk) 14:15, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Bully Xbox 360.jpg

The image Image:Bully Xbox 360.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check

  • That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
  • That this article is linked to from the image description page.

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --00:43, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

List of characters in each clique

Resolved. It was decided that article stays the same and that non clique students were named

I think it would be best if we included a small list of the members of the various cliques instead of naming them in the the description. One example is shown below:

List of members in the Nerds clique
  • Algernon Papadolous -fat, wets his shorts etc.
  • Cornelius Thomson
  • Donald Anderson
  • Thad etc.

So please give your opinions before I take action. Paul 1953 (talk) 01:25, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

The list is the thing that got called unencyclopedic, had this article hauled in for a review and almost AfD'd. We should not try to reformat to a list without a fairly wide-spread consensus to do so. McJeff (talk) 02:00, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
What I really mean is to list their names and describe their clique, like this:


Non-clique students The students who aren't part of any of the cliques wear dark teal uniforms. While they don't have any sort of clique mentality, they will react toward Jimmy in accordance with the majority of the student body. So if Jimmy is generally disliked by the other students, they will insult him. If Jimmy is popular, the non-clique students will be friendly towards him and may even help him fight battles. They are all poor fighters, and they rarely stand up for themselves when confronted by the Bullies or other students who attack and insult them. List of non-clique students

  • Angie Ng
  • Christy Martin
  • Constantinos Brakus
  • Eunice Pound
  • Gordon Wakefield
  • Ivan Alexander
  • Lance Jackson
  • Ray Hughes
  • Trevor Moore

I am of the opinion that there isn't any need for the Voice actors to be listed named nor is a description of all the 100 plus students at the Academy really needed. Let's wait for Daniel to,er,get out of bed and see this section discussion.Paul 1953 (talk) 04:03, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Get out of bed? HAHA funny, I been in London past few days, Anyways enough about my personal life. What I do think the article needs is that non clique student to be at least named. Apart from that the article is fine the way it is. Dan the Man1983 (talk) 21:14, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
OK then.Paul 1953 (talk) 05:47, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Standard of English

Resolved. Wikipedia states that any version of English can be used.

I think edit wars may start if one user uses British English and another reverts it to American. So we'll need a sort of "consensus" to see if majority of the editors use British or American English. Mr Daniel and I both hail from "British standard countries", while Mr McJeff is from the States. And I don't know about Mr Robert, but I don't think he has edited here since that dispute. And as for the other minor editors, please let me know your standard of English.Paul 1953 (talk) 05:47, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that wikipedia standard is to use American English. McJeff (talk) 06:49, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
Well normally I use British English since I speak and use it in everyday life. I don't think it matters which one is used. I see a lot of British English spelling on English articles and a lot of American English spelling on American articles. As long as people can read them it don't matter in my opinion. It's the same language, just that American's use their butchered version. Like Mexicans speak different Spanish to those in Spain. Dan the Man1983 (talk) 07:48, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
Then all we need to do is put a tiny note. 203.127.153.65 (talk) 08:15, 30 May 2008 (UTC) (Paul 1953 not logged in)


This is stated:
The English Wikipedia has no general preference for a major national variety of the language. No variety is more correct than the others. Users are asked to take into account that the differences between the varieties are superficial. Cultural clashes over spelling and grammar are avoided by using four simple guidelines. The accepted style of punctuation is covered in the punctuation section.
Hope it helps.Dan the Man1983 (talk) 19:58, 30 May 2008 (UTC)