Talk:List of characters in Bully/Archive 5

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Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Contents

What this article needs next

Since someone tackled starting listing the adults around the town (awesome start by the way), I think the next step is to figure out exactly which adults aren't named and organize them by description.

Although you can't really call them cliques, the adults are organized in groups like the kids are. There's 4 policemen, 4 orderlies, the well dressed men and women in Bullworth Vale, the hobos, and the blue collar people around Blue Skies. There's also the shopkeepers - Tobias Mason is already named, but they're all unique characters. There's also the carnival staff, including but not limited to the freaks.

Once that's done, the next plan should be to try and match names to them. When that's over, there'll still be names left out (I noticed when doing the voice actors that some of the characters didn't appear in the credits). I can't figure out any way of dealing with that short of writing Rockstar and asking - and even if I got an answer, I don't know how to make it encyclopedic.

Anyway, my two cents. McJeff (talk) 09:28, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Or, we could observe two of WP's two core policies; WP:Verifiability and WP:No original research. Marasmusine (talk) 10:04, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
I believe that we determined that in-game content, properly cited when necessary, was a reliable source. McJeff 13:47, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Would the Bully Strategy Guide count as a reliable source ? Dan the man1983 (talk) 10:13, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Anyways another idea for the article that i was thinking of is listing all the in game errands that Jimmy does for all the characters. If the Bully Strategy Guide is an ok reliable source then we could get the information of the errands from that. Dan the man1983 (talk) 10:29, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

It's reliable, but not independent. You're probably wanting to put in information for which no reliable, third-party sources exist. If you want to give it a shot, please also review WP:NOT#GUIDE. Marasmusine (talk) 12:33, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

There are 2 shopkeepers who i could deal with if i knew their names. The shopkeepers im on about are 2, who are somewhat involved in the story. The adult nerd owner of the comic store, who has comics stolen by Constantinos, and the owner of the Yum Yum market in Old Bullworth Vale who Russell lifted up with one arm because he called Russell dumb. Most of the other shopkeepers have little to no involvement in the story what so ever. Dan the man1983 15:49, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Errands.

Ive gone ahead and have edited in errands using the Bully instruction manual. So far i have added errands that Jimmy does for the Nerds, Non Clique students, Little kids and the prefects. If you feel that these don't belong in the article then state your opinion here and i can easily delete them from the article. Also feel free to neaten or clean up the edits ive just made, since it might need a little cleaning up anyways. Dan the man1983 16:30, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Don't forget to cite the instruction manual as a source. Marasmusine 09:39, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

I stated in each edit summary that my source was the instruction manual if thats any help? If you need a link to go on the article i can link it to bradygames.com who publish and wrote the instruction manual. 09:53, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Hi Dan, please take another look at WP:V#Burden of evidence; all sources should be cited in the text. A link to the website is not necessary, in this case you can put something like:
<ref name="instructions">{{cite book |title=''Bully'' instruction manual |last=Whoever |first=Wrote it |year= |publisher=Brady Games |location= |isbn= }}</ref>
,in the first instance, and <ref name="instructions"/> on further instances. See Wikipedia:Citing sources for more info! Marasmusine 10:25, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Ok ive added the sources in the article and im just hoping i did them right, could you check for me since adding sources and references is a little new to me Dan the man1983 11:28, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Instruction Manual Accuracy

From what we know,the game is considered more canonical than the instruction manual itself.The list of townsfolk below is the names that are confirmed,evidence coming from dialogue or other in-game sources:

  • Ms Kopke
  • Mr Smith
  • Ms Abby

I vote we remove the townsfolk section,because it's NOT 100% accurate.Paul 1953 11:06, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

I think it should stay.
A serious question is why do you keep adding unotable information that has been deleted many times before back onto the article ??
Im sure you're edits are in good faith as is all of ours who edit this article, but you keep on adding information that has been deleted time and time again. Dan the man1983 11:27, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
I vote we KEEP the townsfolk section. The information on the website and in the strategy guide, although not 100% accurate, is accurate and notable enough to be considered canonical when the game dialogue does not contradict it. McJeff 22:46, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
I agree with McJeff. Dan the man1983 00:30, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
We also agreed on not adding Melvin and Peanut to be listed as 2nd in commands since the game dosen't state them as that and the manual guide is known to have a few errors in it. Dan the man1983 00:50, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
Dan,I'm real sure there's a policy which states:ALL INFO IN AN ARTICLE NEEDS TO BE 100% ACCURATE.BTW,Maramusine,in future please be sure your spelling and grammar is correct.Paul 1953 09:52, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
That's wikilawyering. Don't do it. McJeff 02:16, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
Paul you aint authority here okay, unless authority tells me different i am going to keep adding info aslong as their is a citation with it and as long as its with in the rules okay, I'll do it until someone like a admin tells me otherwise. Dan the man1983 03:57, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

I GIVE UP.On this page I work with a group of people who do not know Wiki rules.Paul 1953 09:52, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Best news I heard all day. McJeff 11:43, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
Hahaha, ain't it against the wiki rules to add me as a users he hates on his userpage ? Dan the man1983 12:43, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
Plus he should have read this Wikipedia:Dispute resolution. Dan the man1983 12:46, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

You are violating Wiki rules!Paul 1953 (talk) 01:58, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

You are the one violating wiki rules in your userpage in the past, by putting me down as a user you hate, and McJeff as a user on your blacklist. Dan the man1983 (talk) 02:01, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

I don't see what is wrong with a personal Blacklist.By putting you(Daniel) and "MacJeffrey" (God,pardon me) on my Blacklist,it means you are BANNED from talking to me.Paul 1953 (talk) 02:25, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

I tell you whats wrong with it, Its a personal attack, it's childish, and finally, both me and McJeff have done nothing wrong to you. Dan the man1983 (talk) 02:30, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
I referred him to the administrators. Hopefully that'll put an end to it. McJeff (talk) 21:27, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
2 warnings he got for personal attacks should of put an end to it all. Dan the man1983 (talk) 00:39, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Dialogue Citations

Seriously in my opinion, i think what this article needs is a few dialouge citations, since most of the information is edited from in game dialouge. Does anyone agree or disagree ? Dan the man1983 02:54, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree. That's why I added the quote from Cornelius about Thad being Dan's brother. McJeff 22:45, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
I think we should add them where it says dialouge hints or his or her dialouge implies, I just added 2 or 3 for Algernon. Dan the man1983 00:18, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
Just out of question Dan, how come you never indent your replies? It's easy wikicode, just use a colon : for each indent. Makes debates easier to read.
Anyway good work on the quotes. I'm going to dig my copy of Bully out and track down a few that I remember. Like the one about Russell "seems to not understand why bullying is wrong", and maybe the 100% exact wording for the Cornelius quote about Thad and Dan. McJeff 02:19, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
I dunno i just never bothered with them to be honest, didn't even cross my mind, but it does make a talk page seem a lot neater.
I heard Russell state an interesting quote the other day while playing, something about the nurse telling him about oversized or overgrown glands. Which may explain why he is so big, Personally i always thought that Russell was an adult with gigantism that was kept behind at school because he isn't too smart.
If i hear the quote again, im gonna add that to his information because it might explain why he is so big.
Anyways im gonna add some quote citations soon, same goes for errands too. Dan the man1983 03:54, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Christy & Angie

I've noticed that they might be roommates, because if they are in a dorm, they are always in the same one. I also notice that when Christy talks to Angie, she sometimes calls her by her name outside of cutscenes, which is rare. Should this take notice? Flare13 (talk) 21:45, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Ive always said that Christy and Angie are the best of friends. Infact that was once edited in the article but was taken out probably due to it being speculative. Dan the man1983 (talk) 01:45, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Russell seems to not understand why bullying is wrong

I know this was removed as speculative, but I readded it and decided to explain why.

I think it's an important part of Russell's character. It's the only reason why he goes from being the first antagonist in the game to one of only a few full fledged good guys (the others being Jimmy obviously, Petey, Zoey, and arguably Edgar).

As for calling it speculative, it's only speculative in the most technical sense of the word. The game spells it out crystal clear. Anyway, I sourced it, which should help so far as verifyability goes. McJeff (talk) 13:05, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Ive always thought thats why he bullies people.
Funny thing is that after Jimmy tells him that he still carries on with it. Dan the man1983 (talk) 19:04, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Neil

Neil's hard to see because he's hidden behind one of the cars that is up on the machine, but you CAN see him. He's the man with dark hair, wears a blue jumpsuit with yellow interior. If you pass Shop 5, the camera zooms in on him while he says you've graduated and can come back to mess around if you want. Also his character model is on the Bully Soundboard. McJeff (talk) 00:39, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

To be honest i never really noticed that before. Dan the man1983 (talk) 01:36, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
Yeah it took me a few plays through the game to realize he wasn't one of the Greasers. McJeff (talk) 19:38, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Juri, Zangief and a few other things.

Let me just state that the only reason i deleted this is because an admin deleted it from the article before and deemed it either a presumption,implication or speculation.

Another thing i wanna talk about is listing all the decisions that editors of this article have made during the past so people who in future edit this article can read them and not go against them. Dan the man1983 (talk) 01:51, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Okay my 2 cents on the Juri/Zangief edit.
Personally, i haven't got a problem with it in the article, I explained why i deleted it, due to an admin decision.
If me and you can agree to add this back to the article McJeff, then lets put it back in, but if its deleted by the same admin again, i think it should stay out. Dan the man1983 (talk) 02:07, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
A lot of these things were done while I was on a wikibreak, and I didn't get a chance to take it up with Marasamune himself. Anyway, here's why I think the Juri/Zangief thing, and the Bo/Lance/Gloria being related are both wiki-worthy.
For the Juri/Zangief thing. It's not a presumption that Juri uses a piledriver like Zangief, it's a fact, since they both do. It's not an implication because again, really all that it is saying is "Juri uses a piledriver and so does Zangief, they also both happen to be Russian." It's not speculation because we're not speculating Juri is using it as a tribute to Zangief. So it's not a controversial remark. Really the only reason to not include it is if it's a non-noteworthy detail, like the thing about Tad's mom owning a Mapplethorpe photo a while back. Because we're not stating Juri uses a piledriver as a tribute to Zangief, only that it's a noteworthy coincidence.
Still I won't add it back until you respond. If you want you can call Marasamune in here to see what he thinks since he deleted it.
To clarify: You can say that Juri is Russian and that he uses a piledriver if those two statements are explicitly shown in the game or from another reliable source. Making any kind of connection with a character from another game is original research; or you can say how this is relevant in an out-of-universe context using a reliable source. Marasmusine (talk) 18:27, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
As far as names go, I think it's usually noteworthy when people share a name, regardless of if they seem to be related (like Bo, Lance and Gloria are all black and intelligent ((Bo's the only Jock who cares about his education)), whereas Fatty and Karen have opposite personalities and no physical similarities). Or even the fact that there's no evidence that Mr. Smith is related to Gary. Again, we just have to be careful to not phrase things as speculations. McJeff (talk) 19:36, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
Like i stated before, add it back, but if its deleted out again then leave it out since we don't want another edit war. Dan the man1983 (talk) 00:29, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
Fatty and Karen do share something,I'm sure.How about perhaps,their hair color?Any more suggestions please start a new article. Anonymous —Preceding unsigned comment added by Paul 1953 (talk • contribs) 07:36, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
Yep they kind of have the same look in the eye area and hair color. Dan the man1983 (talk) 12:11, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
I disagree. Karen's a blonde, Fatty's a redhead and he has huge lips. They don't look alike to me. McJeff (talk) 13:00, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
Huge lips DO NOT necessarily mean it was inherited.It's enviroment factors.Paul 1953 (talk) 13:24, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
You don't need too look like someone to be related to them, Me and my own brother don't look alike, but were still related. Dan the man1983 (talk) 13:32, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
All the other related kids look alike. Bo/Lance/Gloria are all black. Thad and Dan have the same hair color, as do Wade and Christy. Yeah, it's possible that Fatty and Karen could be related, but there's absolutely no evidence that they are. McJeff (talk) 00:48, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
Pinky and Derby are related but don't look like each other, Maybe Fatty and Karen are the same as them, Cousins Dan the man1983 (talk) 02:15, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
Maybe, but that's also speculative. I'm not saying that Fatty and Karen couldn't be related - I'm saying that there's no evidence aside from the shared last name that they are. No similar appearance, opposite personality traits, and no dialogue about them that I've found. McJeff (talk) 11:43, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
I think they are related due to their shared surname, However its a maybe, Since maybes aint allowed in the article we should keep it out then. Dan the man1983 (talk) 13:50, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Tobias the driver

I've often noticed that when using the school bus,you see a man with red hair and beard who looks like Tobias Mason (bicycle store owner) driving.Now,to prevent ANY future edit wars on this,someone should get a digital image of the driver,post it on their main page/blog and give the links for all editors concerned to view.Paul 1953 (talk) 13:24, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Now,Dan,why did you remove the information?Paul 1953 (talk) 15:14, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Cause they aint the same person Dan the man1983 (talk) 16:36, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
Please read WP:V and WP:OR. Marasmusine (talk) 16:12, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
The bus driver is not Tobias. The bus driver is an unfinished sprite without a face. He isn't animated, he doesn't even move. The bus driver is not even a character. McJeff (talk) 12:21, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
Also it does not make sense that a person who owns a bike store would earn a living driving a bus for the school Dan the man1983 (talk) 15:09, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Various issues

I have several things I want to clarify and point out regarding several of the characters.

Officer Williams: I find his entry confusing. It says that he's more caring than the other officers, then immediately goes on to say he's corrupt. Could someone elaborate on that?

Dr. Crabblesnitch: I don't think it's quite accurate to say he'll fire his staff only when faced with undeniable proof, because he seems to fire Mr. Burton based on Jimmy's word alone. It's also not specified whether Zoe was expelled because she complained about Mr. Burton, or whether Mr. Burton worked to have her expelled because he didn't apperciate her complaining about him. However, I do remember hearing a PA announcement that said students would be expelled if they complained about the staff.

Christy Martin: Since one of her errands involves escorting her to the motel, should we make note that that's probably where she lives?

Miss Danvers: Where does it indicate that she dislikes Jimmy more than other students? Troy Miller: Is it worth pointing out that he wants to join the army? One of his lines of dialog when defeated is "so much for the army".

Tobias Mason: I've only played that errand once, but the impression I got was that the townie stole the bike flat out, instead of renting it and not returning it.

Damon West: He evidently wears contacts, since he will sometimes say that he thinks he lost one when you give him a swirlie.

Mr. Sullivan: Is it directly confirmed that he hates the carnival? I thought he wanted Jimmy to take pictures as souvenirs.--24.255.171.220 (talk) 15:01, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Also, where is it said with certainty that Jimmy burned down his old school? I've only heard that in nerd small talk, and small talk isn't a reliable source for information on Jimmy (Gloria thinks that he's undercover law enforcement). Arson also doesn't fit Jimmy's character.--24.255.171.220 (talk) 03:31, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

That motel is abandoned. Jimmy only escorts Christy there, There is no full details on why she wants to go there, but she does not live there. The Bullies hang about there a lot but it dosen't mean they live there.
Ive heard Damon say that before about his contacts, I dunno if its worthy enough to go on the article since theres a lot of information on him already.
The townie rented the bike but wasn't gonna give it back, so yes that is considered stealing.
Miss Danvers is hostile towards all students, but she is very hostile towards Jimmy, saying she knew he would be a failure.
Zoe told Jimmy when she met him the reason why she was expelled from Bullworth. She stated that it was because she complained about Mr Burton. Dan the man1983 (talk) 15:21, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
As far as arson goes, I believe Dr. Crabblesnitch mentions it in that first cutscene where he's denigrating Jimmy. McJeff (talk) 02:47, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

You've missed most of the points completely.

"The townie rented the bike but wasn't gonna give it back, so yes that is considered stealing."

That wasn't what I asked. I thought he didn't rent it at all, but ripped it off out right.

"Miss Danvers is hostile towards all students, but she is very hostile towards Jimmy, saying she knew he would be a failure."

That's not proof that she's particularly hostile toward him. And of course, she says that only if you attack her.

"Zoe told Jimmy when she met him the reason why she was expelled from Bullworth. She stated that it was because she complained about Mr Burton"

That can still be interpretated as her complaining about it being indirectly the cause of her expulsion, because if Mr. Burton lied about her she probably wouldn't say she was expelled for whatever she lied about.

Additional information, one of the things Mr. Hattrick says if you beat him is that he's on medication for egomania.--24.255.171.220 (talk) 04:02, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

She says she knew Jimmy was always gonna be failure sometimes when you load the game up in the office of the school.
Telling someone that you knew they was always gonna be a failure is hostile.
Dr Crabblesnitch does not mention arson when he first meets Jimmy at the start of the game, i could copy the whole conversation of that first meeting here if you want proof. Dan the man1983 (talk) 08:27, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
Ok this is the sentence that Dr Crabblesnitch mentions Jimmy's various crimes at his past schools.
"Now let me see, you've done a lot of naughty things haven't you, vandalism, graffiti, bad language, violent conduct, disprespecting staff, oh im scared of you, Hopkins. Dan the man1983 (talk) 08:33, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it's hostile, but it does not prove that she dislikes Jimmy more than other students.--24.255.171.220 (talk) 12:34, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Replayed the errand, and the bike shop owner just comes out and asks where his bike was. I'm not sure the motel is abandoned either, because while a few rooms are closed off, it's police tape blocking the door. That just indicates that a crime took place in those respective rooms.--24.255.171.220 (talk) 01:31, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Police tape means a lot of things, One of its other meanings is to warn people not to enter a building because it is considered a hazard and dangerous. Which may be the reason why the motel is abandoned. Dan the man1983 (talk) 05:03, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

But you haven't proved that it's abandoned.--24.255.171.220 (talk) 02:08, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Just heard two lines of dialog from Dr. Bambillo that say Damon is "psycho" and "not right".--24.255.171.220 (talk) 02:09, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Tape itself can prove its abandoned, If the police have tape up there for a crime scene then they aint gonna let anyone stay there while going through with their investigations.
Ive heard those quotes being said before and i think there noteworthy enough to go in the article, because it might explain his love of fighting. 217.42.14.111 (talk) 09:01, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
I have to agree with you about the bike errand.
Ive just replayed the errand mission where Tobias asks Jimmy to get the bike back from the Townie, Tobias does not mention anything about the townie renting the bike and he only asks Jimmy "Dude wheres my bike".
The bike was stolen, Not rented. 217.42.14.111 (talk) 15:13, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Just to clairfy

Paul will you stop editing the quote citation of Gord when he is on about Aquaberry.

Not only do you keep changing it, but the word stocks when talking about buying stock in a company does not excist.

The correct quote is "I really love Aquaberry, maybe Daddy will buy me stock in the company", Not, "I really love Aquaberry, maybe Daddy will buy me stocks in the company". Dan the man1983 (talk) 17:05, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Sheldon.

In the past, there have been edits to Sheldon about pranks being played on him. They have been deleted and then edited in again and back and forth.

This time i have edited them in again and i will explain why.

I think its a characteristic of his that he gets pranks played on him because he is a teachers pet, some of Sheldon's dialouge also quote about the pranks being played on him, He also will quote that he always gets beaten if he is beaten up by Jimmy or other students.

Ive backed up what i have added with sources. Dan the man1983 (talk) 22:55, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Paul 1953

Seriously why on earth do you keep on editing stuff back into the article that has been deleted many many times.

Im sure you're edits are in good faith, but the information you keep on re-adding is deleted time and time for a reason, If you got issues to why you think they shouldn't be deleted then post them on here then so people here can discuss, don't keep adding them back to the article for them to be deleted. Dan the man1983 (talk) 16:17, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Just a couple of things.

This article has really been coming along nicely these past few weeks, Especially now that we normally add sources and citations to things we add or change. Adding sources has also helped to stop edits wars this article use to have.

However a lot more work still needs to be done with it in my opinion, Especially more quote sources needed to be added. In the article there is many characters that has information based on things said by their in game dialouge but don't have any sources to back this up.

Also earlier i edited the information for Mr Moratti the barber, The changes i made was to put him down as an Italian, where as before it stated he was an Italian-American.

Now correct me if i am wrong but, Isn't an Italian American a person who was born in the United States to Italian immigrants or a person who was born in the United States but has Italian descent?

Mr Moratti has a thick Italian accent which is why i changed it from Italian-American to Italian. Dan the man1983 (talk) 09:46, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Ok my recent changes only state that he is an old Italian barber who speaks in a heavy accent. I didnt add immigrant since that was taken out.
Although his accent alone should be proof that he is an immigrant because most Italians who are born in the USA speak with American accents when speaking English even if they speak Italian too. But you can never be sure.
I think we should leave him down as an old Italian barber who speaks in a heavy accent until we agree wether he is an immigrant or not. But he is clearly Italian which is why i have stated that. 217.42.14.111 (talk) 09:18, 20 December 2007 (UTC) ---- Dan the man1983
Anyway,he ain't really townsfolk,he's one of these shop owners.----11245 (talk)
Every character who isn't a student or a teacher is townsfolk. Dan the man1983 (talk) 16:11, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Archive.

Since there has been so many topics in the space of a month and since it looks like its gonna be archived soon.

I say we keep this current discussion going until the 31st December and then put them into Archive so we can then start a fresh new page for the new year. 217.42.14.111 (talk) 17:47, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

I have archived topics that wasnt in use anymore. Dan the man1983 (talk) 23:46, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Quote needed.

Can anyone state the quote where Davis brags about making another student drop out so i can out it in the article as a source. Thanks. Dan the man1983 (talk) 01:59, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Prefects moved to Faculty.

Ok this is my 2 cents on the recent move.

I think that was a good idea to move them there.

Ive never been to sure or even ive never brought the fact that the prefects are students, Despite the fact that one of them does mention not wanting to graduate in his game dialouge.

They all look older then 30 years old. Dan the man1983 (talk) 03:17, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Unmatched Townsfolk

There are some townsfolk,who have not yet been matched up to names.A list for clarifications' sake is here:

  • Elderly man in black suit and red tie.
  • Middle aged man in red jacket,white tee and white sneakers.Has blond hair and mustache.
  • A black man in jeans and black shirt.May be Hector or Mr Ramirez
  • Elderly man in white shirt and slacks.Resident of retirement home.
  • Black orderly
  • White orderly with beard

That's all I think.Paul 1953 (talk) 04:29, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

There is a discussion on this already. Dan the Man1983 (talk) 06:44, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
Im archiving this topic now because it is now pointless. Dan the Man1983 (talk) 22:50, 31 December 2007 (UTC)