Talk:List of assassinated people

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[edit] Died as a result of assasination attempt (indirectly)

Would an individual be considered to be assasinated if he was attacked, stabbed, survived the stabbing, then died later as a result of hepatitis contracted from a blood transfusion following the stabbing? This incident did happen, namely to Edwin O. Reischauer. The incident is recounted in Douglas Starr's "Blood: An Epic History of Medicine and Commerce" ISBN 0-688-17649-6 (though not yet on Wikipedia) For additional sources, read here [1] and [2]User:Orville Eastland

I actually added someone who had that very thing happen to him - Hugh II of Le Puiset, who was attacked and stabbed, survived, but never really recovered and died a few months later. It's customary to call it an assassination because it was probably an assassination attempt, at least. Maybe it should be removed though...I don't know. Adam Bishop 21:44, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Biggie and Tupac

Notorious BIG and tupac, assassinated??

I think Chris Rock said it best -- Martin Luther King, assassinatd. Malcom X, assassinated. Now I like biggie and I like tupac, but school is going to be IN on their birthdays.

I think we should probably take those out.

Raul654 02:12, 1 Sep 2003 (UTC)

  • Notorious BIG, Tupac, and John Lennon should all be removed. They were murdered NOT assassinated.

[edit] Re-formatting suggestion, part the one

I suggest adding dates and placing them in chronological, rather than alphabetical, order. Fisk

It's not even in alphabetical order. This list is in no order whatsoever. -- Zoe

This is in order of the year when the person is assassinated. What is wrong with that? -- Taku 04:03 Mar 13, 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Re-formatting suggestion, part the two

Trying to bring some structure to the list, but it seems to keep mutating out of coherence. What I wanted to do was to separate the assassinations of heads of state/government from various other politically motivated assasinations. Also the Japanese political assassinations were so numerous that it seemed to warrant its own headline. The present sorting per annum ought to be maintained unless replaced with a better system. /Mic

[edit] Deathdate of John Paul I, Catholic Pope

Mic, since you insist that John Paul I died in 1981, you should change the corresponding article as well. Fisk 10:27 Mar 13, 2003 (UTC)

I don't contend the date of demise for John Paul I. / Mic 10:40 Mar 13, 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Definition of assassination, part the one

I think there ought to be some distinction here between assassination and good honest murder. I mean, Marvin Gaye was killed by his own dad. How can that be termed an assassination? Deb 11:21 Mar 15, 2003 (UTC)

I'm curious of how you make the distinction that Marvin Gaye doesn't belong here but John Lennon does? / Mic 13:19 Mar 16, 2003 (UTC)
They both don't belong here. Both were murdered. The trouble is you get their fans telling us otherwise. Iam 22:27, Dec 1, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Re-formatting suggestion, part the three

Since the title is "List of assassinated persons", I think the list of people who survived assissination attempts should be moved to List of people who survived assassination attempts. Any objections? -- Stephen Gilbert

[edit] David Kelly

David Kelly might not fit in the list of verified assasinated people, but doesn't it at least fit in the suspicious circumstances section? כסיף Cyp 08:59 22 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Why is it suspicious? It was a suicide. I'm not convinced it was anything else. Wikipedia should not engage in conspiracy theories. Iam 22:21, Dec 1, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Re-formatting suggestion, part the four

Added Thomas Hindman, moved the dates to right after the name, some were at the end, some were at the beginning. Some entries have been added out of annual order so I resorted some of them. 11 Aug 2003

[edit] Re-formatting suggestion, part the five

Sorry Docu, but if you can't deal with an edit conflict properly, I revert. Do your changes again without reverting mine. --Wik 19:55, 1 Sep 2003 (UTC)

My 2nd edit fixed that -- User:Docu
No it didn't. --Wik 20:02, 1 Sep 2003 (UTC)
Would you wait two minutes till I'm done? I did it step by step to make it easier to follow. There are 2-3 changes in Africa I missed, but no use reverting all, if you don't bother checking the others. --User:Docu
Well, you're doing it wrong. You keep reintroducing errors I corrected hours ago. --Wik 20:30, 1 Sep 2003 (UTC)
Actually I tried to do it just before Jdforrester started ;-)
What has Jdforrester to do with it? This started after his last edit. --Wik 21:00, 1 Sep 2003 (UTC)
I should be done by now. Eventually, with the diffs, I would have found the changes. Which changes did I miss? --User:Docu
Enough. You're doing it all wrong by trying to repeat my changes. You just have to start from my last edit and repeat your changes (by hand, not by copying from your old revisions). --Wik 21:00, 1 Sep 2003 (UTC)
At which step starting from 1378223 weren't you able to follow the changes? -- User:Docu
What do you mean with "follow the changes"? Right with your "Africa" edit, you started reintroducing errors, e.g. Mpinga Kasenda, who I had removed for a reason (he wasn't assassinated). --Wik 21:13, 1 Sep 2003 (UTC)
You forgot to mention this in the summary field when you removed him from the list. The summary field is for this. Please check [3] for "reintroduced errors". There should be just two (spelling in Iranian names). -- User:Docu
I kept your versions for these three. Sorry about Kasenda, I assumed you had lost him. Feel free to simplify the current format, but please don't just reverse edits. -- User:Docu
Just because I don't mention something in the summary is no reason for you to revert it. You shouldn't complain about reverting edits, when you started it! If you thought I made a mistake you should have mentioned it here on the talk page first. You also reverted my edit on Burundi (both assassinations were in 1965). --Wik 22:09, 1 Sep 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Other deletions/transfers needed

[edit] James Connolly

Connolly was executed, not assassinated. Why is he here?

Exile

[edit] Tupac and Biggie revisited

I removed Tupac and Biggie. There is no evidence that the motives for their assassination were political, nor were they particularily important political figures. I am undecided about John Lennon: he was a political figure for the counterculture, although the motives of his assassin were not political. Biggie and Tupac belong on the List_of_murdered_people. Mprudhom 04:29, 5 Sep 2003 (UTC)

I agree with moving Tupac and Notorious Big, but the same should be done for Selena, that Houston socialite and the other famous people who were murdered, not assassinated. Perhaps someone who knows how to do it (I don't) can take care of this. Italo Svevo
I changed the structure of the list slightly. To me it reflects better the current content and John Lennon can be listed under US, as his assassination is likely to be considered non political assassination.-- User:Docu
At the time of his death was John Lennon still a political figure? He had dropped out of public life for a number of years to concentrate on his family. The peace movement he was a part of in the 60s had long since died out in the 70s after the Vietnam War ended. I would still say his death was murder not an assassination. Iam 22:34, Dec 1, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Anna Lindh and the nature of assassination and this page

I put Anna Lindh back. Olaf Palme is listed, and his murder has never been solved, so unless you think we should remove both of them, which I don't agree with at all, they should both stay and we should assume that nearly every politician killed in office will be a political assassination. Note that the royal family of Nepal was listed, and they were killed by one of their own members, as were many of the ancient emperors. We don't need to be so technical. 68.116.64.92

There is a difference between a murder never being solved and, as is the case with regard to Mrs. Lindh, investigations not having gone on for long enough to give a verdict - that is, although we don't know that someone has been killed with a political motive if noone has been sucessfully convicted of the crime &c., we could cite them as an assassination if it is widely assumed to have been as such (and, of course, correct this assumption if it is later proven to be unfounded).
With regard to the 9 members of the Nepalese royal family, that the killing was perpetrated by one of their relatives has no bearing on whether their killings were 'assassinations' per se; it is assumed that the killing was indeed political, however, so we keep it.
And why don't we need to be 'technical'?
James F. 12:23, 13 Sep 2003 (UTC)
The list contains several persons who were killed by "lunatics" without apparent political motives. For a murder to be called an assassination it suffices that the victim is a prominent person (regardless of the killer's motive). --Wik 12:54, Sep 13, 2003 (UTC)


Well, if everyone else thinks that that's a suitable inclusion requirement for this page, I'll accede :-)
James F. 13:18, 13 Sep 2003 (UTC)


Gees. You shouldn't accede all that easily; takes half the joy out of my carefully mastered evidentiary presentation...
Funk & Wagnalls Standard Dictionary of the English Language: "To kill by secret or surprise assault. [...goes on to refer to character assasination, but not much else]"
The Modern Guide to Synonyms (originally also a Funk & Wagnalls endeavour, the authority here though is not in that reputation (or lack of same), but in the compiler, S.I Hayakawa): [as compared to "kill", "butcher", "dispatch", "execute", "massacre", "murder", "slaughter" and "slay"]...Assassinate is a specific form of murder in which someone kills a public figure, usually a political leader, for whatever reason: [...]
The Random House Dictionary of the English Language: "to kill suddenly or secretively, esp. a politically prominent person; murder premeditatedly and treacherously. [...then goes into the figurative uses such as "character assasination"]
The Oxford English Dictionary (Second Edition) repeats and repeats again well past my boredom threshold the phrase (substitute "murder" for "kill" a few times) "To kill by treacherous violence.". None of the definitions in OED address motive at all. -- Cimon Avaro on a pogo-stick 14:29, Sep 13, 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Short entry

The entry for Stephen Knight is just limited to his name. Who was he? -- User:Docu

An investigative journalist, who died in a bizarre downhill skiing accident. He was investigating some organisatorial connections of the MAFIA at the time. (That is just about all I know about his death; that it was considered fishy by some. Hence added him to the list.) He wrote a rather naive "expose" of the freemasons titled The Brotherhood, but that was ages ago... -- Cimon Avaro on a pogo-stick 12:50, Sep 13, 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Yamamoto

Since Isoroku Yamamoto was shot down by enemy forces during declared war, does this really count as an assassination? -- Ortonmc 22:10, 13 Sep 2003 (UTC)

See above for an elucidation as to the 'real' meaning of the term 'assassination' :-)
Seriously, I would consider individual targetting of people assassination, even if they are the 'enemy' - had he just happened that have been shot down, that would have been normal warfare, but that his position was known from SIGINT and used to track down and kill him, I think calling his killing an assassination is quite justified.
James F. 22:31, 13 Sep 2003 (UTC)
Fair enough. Would you consider Uday & Qusay Hussein to have been assassinated, on the same theory? -- Ortonmc 21:37, 14 Sep 2003 (UTC)
No, they were, I suppose, killed whilst resisting (miliary) arrest by the occupying force (as war had been declared over by the US, they weren't killing the enemy); however, as the idea was to arrest them, and they got killed in the resulting gunfire, I'd be hesitant to cite them as assassinations per se...
James F. 23:35, 14 Sep 2003 (UTC)
I think "Died under suspicious circumstances" might be a useful compromise here... -- Cimon Avaro on a pogo-stick 04:56, Sep 15, 2003 (UTC)
Yes, that sounds appropriate, I suppose.
James F. 13:37, 15 Sep 2003 (UTC)
But isn't "suspicious circumstances" for people whose deaths actually were suspicious, as in we don't really know how they died? In this case we do know how they died. I don't think it was really an assassination either, though... Adam Bishop 22:07, 15 Sep 2003 (UTC)
Hmm. What about 'killed in contentious legal circumstances'? Rather a mouth-full, I'd suggest. Does anyone actually think we should keep them here, however?
James F. 00:35, 16 Sep 2003 (UTC)
Odai Hussein turned his gun on himself (self-inflicted gunshot wound in the head) rather than be captured, so that would count as a suicide rather than assassination or murder. Since both were armed and fired at US soldiers when told to surrender, it definitely can't be classed as an assassination.
We can't possibly know the real circumstances of their deaths. The official U.S. version can not just be taken at face value. --Wik 06:12, 28 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Patrice Lumumba was executed, not assassinated.

He was assassinated. Claiming otherwise is ignoring the entire context of the event. --Sesel 14:46, 6 Jul 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Paul Wellstone

Why is he listed as a suspicious death? His biography article does not cast any suspicion of sabotage, and just because he died in an aircrash shortly before an election doesn't make it suspicious. His aircrash is hardly in the same category as that which killed the Presidents of Rwanda and Burundi in 1994. Pending a serious objection I will remove him from the list. Dbiv 15:56, 22 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I live in Minnesota, and many people here suspect foul play. Also, see ISBN 0975276301. I do not necessarily support the claim that he was deliberately targeted, but there is evidence of official misconduct. --Sesel 18:52, 22 Jan 2005 (UTC)

From the publisher's description of the above-named book: "In the wake of the crash, 69% of Minnesotans blamed a 'GOP Conspiracy' for Wellstone’s death." --Sesel 18:54, 22 Jan 2005 (UTC)
That opinion poll is not really relevant - note "in the wake of the crash", which can only mean "shortly after the crash" and before any inquiry had been conducted. Likewise, a general suspicion of foul play would not be enough. Any unnatural death of a popular political figure is likely to give rise to such suspicions - witness the theory that Hugh Gaitskell's sudden death in 1963 was the result of a Soviet conspiracy, which has been round the UK a few times. Perhaps the entry should be changed to say "theorized by James H. Fetzer to have been assassinated - see American Assassination ISBN 0975276301."? Dbiv 19:29, 22 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Table of Contents

The table of contents is way too long. I think that we still should sort it by the nation of assassination, though, since there are many more additions which could be made here. I think that we just need to put a __NOTOC__ tag in here and manually write nicer one. I've tried, but my attempts don't look to good on the preview page. Anyone else want to attempt it? --BaronLarf 00:43, Mar 18, 2005 (UTC)

  • I seriously think that if this list gets too long (and its starting to get that way) we should seriously consider deleting "red links" ie. links to non-existant articles. Unless there is an article on the assassinated person dont bother to list it. Megan1967 08:04, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)
    • {{TOCright}} works well (IMHO). -- User:Docu
      • Wintceas: IMHO the right side TOC is more functional, but it looks ugly.
    • Aren't long TOCs rarely beautiful? -- User:Docu

[edit] Abed Hamed Mowhoush

I've added a brief biography on this man, I really don't consider him to be assassinated, it was an accidental death arising from a beating (Or possibly a murder), but definitely not an assassination. If there are no complaints, I'll be removing him from the list later this week once I've inserted a few more calls to him, so he's not an orphan page

[edit] Assassinations and murder

Perhaps there should be a list of "famous people who were murdered". This would resolve the problem. (The former Polish Prime Minister murdered a number of years ago would be included here.)

A "list of suspicious deaths" would become (a) very long very fast, and (b) quickly snarl itself up in claims of POV etc. Jackiespeel 17:20, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Salvador Allende

I'm going to go ahead and be bold and add him to the list... even though his page allows for the fact that his death may have been a suicide, the circumstances in which it took place (a millitary assault on his presidential palace) make it at the very least an de-facto assassination in my book. ZacharyS 03:40, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Reverted removal of Salvador Allende from list because no reasons were given. I agree with ZacharyS that his death was (at the very least) a result of the coup, if not an actual murder. Therefore, it fits the page definition of assasination ("important people who were murdered, usually for ideological or political reasons"). Govus 06:44, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Filiberto Ojeda Ríos

Does he really belong here? i'm not saying the FBI did the right thing, but does this fit in assassinations?Daemon8666 21:38, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Of course it does! It is almost universally regarded as an assassination by Puerto Ricans. If going into a man's mountain hideout on the primary national holiday, shooting him repeatedly, and then denying access to medical personnel while the man bleeds to death isn't an assassination, what is? —Seselwa 23:18, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
OK, just wanted to be sure it wasn't someone having fun; i wasn't familiar enough with the situation to edit it out, so I wanted to put it to the community.Daemon8666 16:41, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
Addition: Can you call the FBI killing of a man wanted in conjunction with a robbery an assassination? It was not necessarily politically motivated, although it is possible it was.Daemon8666 16:41, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
It happened on the anniversary of the Grito de Lares, Puerto Rico's most important indigenous holiday. Of course it was politically motivated. —Seselwa 21:18, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
Does this mean we get to include David Koresh too? According to the Catholic church, every day is at least some Saint's birthday, and the ATF killed him. Koresh was at least as important to his followers. Daemon8666 21:47, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
Update: Per the articcle directly related to him, I am removing it from this list. See discussion under Talk:Filiberto Ojeda Ríos for clarification.

[edit] J. Edgar Hoover

What is Hoover doing on this list? Taking him off until someone substantiates this. Daemon8666 16:21, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

I'll leave it for the time being Daemon8666 16:23, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
Killed Hoover in the article. His own article does not record any foul play, and there is not mention of this elsewhere. If it is found to be tru it can be added. Daemon8666 16:28, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Time, Nationality and Location

Lord Cavandish was English and assassinated in Dublin which was part of the United Kingdom. Lord Mountbatan was English and assassinated in Ireland. At the moment Lord Cavandish is in the Irish section and Mountbatan in the UK section. This does not seem consistent.

Also what about time. Why is there a section for the USSR (BTY why former is there a current USSR? Do we write the former Roman Empire?) Many of the people listed in these lists are placed in a nation state which did not exist when they were assassinated.

For example Germany did not become a nation state until the 1870s so should all the people assasinated in Germany before that date be in the Germany section? --Philip Baird Shearer 10:26, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Ceauceşcu

I think the death of Ceauceşcu was an assassination. Pasqual's talk (ca) 20:53, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Death of Kurt Cobain

Was the death of Kurt Cobain considered like an assassination or like a murder? Pasqual's talk (ca) 22:24, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Anna Lindh

Anna Lindh was not assassinated. Her death was a result of psychological imbalance, and for no political reasons. Therefore deleted this:

[edit] Louis XVI

King Louis XVI was executed by the French Republic, not assassinated. I believe he was convicted of high treason by the Legislative Assembly in December 1792 and executed in January.


[edit] Deaths under suspicious circumstances

JFK should be included in this list, especially since you have already referred to Oswald as the "alleged" assassin.

[edit] Chen Lu

The article lists a Chen Lu as having been assassinated in 1939. However, the link points to a figure skater who was not born until 1976, and by all accounts, is still alive. Anyone know enough about this to fix it? --Sns 06:36, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Alexander Hamilton

does he count?

[edit] Name change

This page should really be titled 'List of assassinations by country', comments? sbandrews (t) 19:25, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

I think the current name of the article is all right, since it includes most of the famous people who were assassinated in history. -Pika ten10 (talk) 08:46, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] major changes needed

The current format for the list is absurd considering its length and likely expansion. The articles sub-divisions should be changed from countries to periods in history, there is no sense in dividing by country when countries are so transient. Secondly its length demands that the article should then be split into separate lists based on specific periods.Nwe 17:06, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Confusing...

What is the qualification for the people who will be posted with their names in this article??? Will we include those who survived assassination attempts??? Furthermore, where will we include the names of those assassinated, in the country where they are killed or where they are born? For example, three Romans are in the Germany section, and Sir Henry Gurney was included in the the Malaysia section.

Kindly please include those qualifications in the introduction part of the article. -Pika ten10 (talk) 08:43, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] ken saro wiwa

Unless we use the terms execution and assassination interchangably (which I dont' think we should) Wiwa shouldn't be on the list. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.255.143.104 (talk) 18:59, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Why?

I mean no offense to the individuals who took so much time compiling this list, but isn't this incredibly pointless? Attempting to create an exaustive list is simply futile, given how ridiculously broad the category is, which only makes this list fairly arbitrary. Seriously, off the top of my head I can see a rather gaping hole in that every single assassination carried out by the IRA during the Michael Collins era is absent. There is also Reinhard Heydrich, chief of the Reich Security Main Office, a rather important NAZI figure who was assassinated-an event with obvious historical importance. And that's just off the top of my head and I don't have very much knowledge on the subject to begin with. If you are honestly going to draw this so broad as to include assassinations of police chiefs or samurai killings in fuedal Japan, the list will only ever serve to demonstrate how pointless it is to even attempt such a list. Wouldn't it make more sense, and indeed wouldn't serve an actual purpose, if this list were broken down into categories (e.g. 'Assassinations of Heads of State,' 'War Time Assassinations,' 'Religious Based Assassinations,' etc.)? I mean as it stands it doesn't exactly serve much of a purpose with everything thrown together like it is. It would be like having an article labled "Every Political Crisis Ever" and then throwing every nation into the mix and including every war, every insurgency, every fixed election, every time a politician had an affair that went public, and so forth. There it would be much more helpful for those looking for such information to be able to find "American Political Crises" or "Modern European Conflicts" and the like. Again, I mean no offense, but I just thought it would be useful to raise the possibility that you are all spending a lot of time on an article that will always be hopelessly incomplete and entirely lacking useful orginazation of information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jdlund (talk • contribs) 06:00, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Keeping inside the criteria.

At the top of the article, we defined an assasination as this:

"This is an list of persons who were assassinated; that is, important people who were murdered, usually for ideological or political reasons. This list does not include executed persons."

However there can be many "assasinated" people that were simply murdered. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.68.103.133 (talk) 02:45, 9 May 2008 (UTC)