Talk:List of alternative country names

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[edit] United States

I would have liked to add Etats-Unis (United States), but the box formatting is too complicated. I could not get it to work right. Could this article be done with no boxes. AlainV 05:23, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)

It's fairly easy. Just copy and paste one of the existing boxes, and then replace the names of the countries and names of the languages. You can cut the rest and - you're there. IMO there's no other way of learning how the tables work (at least that's how I learned). Halibutt 10:23, Jul 8, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Criteria

what is the criteria for listing alternative names? There are so many languages that each entry would become unmanageable. --Jiang 20:49, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)

This is a good question. However, so far I see no problem with it. We might want to find a list of languages that need to be included, but so far the lists are relatively short and quite easily manageable. Halibutt 09:34, Jul 9, 2004 (UTC)

If the intent is to translate it into as many languages as possible, then I can create a problem, first by copying China in world languages into this page. Why don't we just stick with primary/defacto/official languages? Anything else non-English is irrelevant here. --Jiang 16:23, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Without further input, I will be converting this into what I have proposed. The rest belongs in wiktionary, not wikipedia. --Jiang 06:40, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Converting into... what? You did not propose anything, you simply stated that the number of languages should be limited - but to which ones? Halibutt 07:00, Jul 13, 2004 (UTC)

The languages should be limited primary/defacto/official languages for each country. In addition, variants (official or otherwise) should be listed after the common name. Eg, "America" and "United States of America" would be both listed after "United States". How "United States" is spelled in Greek should not be listed here. --Jiang 07:29, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Reason for article

The page was created to avoid expanding List of European cities with alternative names to include country names. It does not really have a point if only English is to be used. If length is a problem, just link to separate pages for countries such as China, and possibly split the article into one per continent, each of those articles having a different version for European languages, Asian, etc.

It's entirely permissable to have foreign languages in an English encyclopaedia for the sake of reference, it's only if actual content was written in another language that there would be a problem. There seems to be a growing contingent of "English purists" on Wikipedia - it's a really quite unnecessary crusade. Zoney 18:53, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I did not say that only English should be used. I said that only relevant languages should be used. For Canada, its English, French, and possibly Iniut. For the US it's English, and possibly Spanish. What is the relevance of how China is referred to in Greece? If the intent is the translate every country into every language possible, then why not start with separate articles built on the mold of China in world languages? Otherwise, a reference guide without explanation of who uses whatever "alternative country names" belongs in a translation book, not an encyclopedia. The closest thing we have would be wiktionary. --Jiang 00:13, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)
I somewhat agree with that analysis - for example, European countries only having European languages. I mean, for the UK/Britain it does make sense to have the local languages (English, Irish, Welsh, Cornish) as well as neighbours (Scandinavia, Germany, Dutch, French, Breton, etc.) The boundaries are however, somewhat difficult to draw. An exclusively European countries/languages article would be something I, as a European, would heartily approve of. Zoney 11:30, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)
How about splitting the article onto two different lists?
The way it is now it's much more informative for me. Especially that all alternative names in official languages are usually listed on top of the country tables. Halibutt 11:55, Jul 14, 2004 (UTC)

Splitting it would be an improvement, IMO. We should keep it to one line per country for the former (e.g. "America" and "United States of America" listed on the same line under "United States" and "Dominion of Canada" listed after "Canada"). That is, this listing is not just about translations, but actual alternatuve country names in the same language. For the first column, we go by the location of the wikipedia article. --Jiang 19:41, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I've implemented the split. These articles need to be interlinked elsewhere, like at list of countries. --Jiang 22:43, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I come late to this "discussion" which, in addition to Jiang, has featured only two other people: Halibutt, the creator of the page, and Zoney, one of its major contributors. I respect the opinions expressed, but I have to say that IMO Jiang failed to understand the value and purpose of the article. He says: What is the relevance of how China is referred to in Greece? That is precisely the point of this article. It is of very great interest, for example, that Germany is called "Vokietija" in Lithuanian or that the old Polish name of Austria is "Rakusza", etc. etc. On the contrary, it is what Jiang wants to do (and has done by highjacking this page) that is of little interest and does not particularly require a list. Who needs a list that says "America" = "USA", "Great Britain" = "UK", and so on and so forth? That kind of information is best treated as part of individual articles, or by redirecting one entry to another. But Jiang tells me that a decision (i.e. his) has been arrived at by consensus and he simply implemented it. Fine, that means we'll continue working on the List of country names in various languages, as the joint effort has now been renamed by Jiang, and he can have his list of doublets, now that he's highjacked the List of alternative country names. He wants to list Canada's name in both of its official languages, i.e. "Canada" = "Canada". Very useful!

Pasquale 23:33, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I think I wasn't particularly paying enough attention to the discussion re: splitting. I think I envisaged this page as being a link page to the split up pages. Oh, and however useful or not these pages are, are they linked from other articles such that people will read them? If not, then no matter how potentially useful they are, they won't be of use. Zoney 13:33, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Common name or description

As there is an objection to "politically insensitive" or "ambiguous" names being used, and this often rules out the "common name", I updated the table titles to read "description", which is much more accurate. That's what is being done - there'll be many instances where that is not the "common name" (even it is a common name, using the title "common name" implies the common name). I suitably amended the intro.

The situation should now be less inaccurate and more NPOV also. Adding "Republic of Ireland", "Ireland", "Éire", etc, under a title "common name" is not politically sensitive!!!

Zoney 13:26, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Siam / Thailand

Not sure if this is relevant or not. Please take consideration.

Siam is the old name of Thailand, and it is still in use by many people, informally, especially in the form of Siamese XXX e.g. Siamese twins, Siamese cat. In German langauge, from my own experience, I still found that some people use de:Siamesisch/de:Siam interchangably with de:Thailändisch/de:Thailand. But as I'm not the native English or German speaker, I cannot confirm much on this. Anyone who has a knowledge on this please help. Thank you :) -- Bact 22:43, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Ireland disappeared

I don't the history of this page and didn't have the time to look too much into it; but it seems like "Ireland" was replaced by "Greece", meaning that "Ireland" has disappeared from the page, and that "Greece" is under the letter I. I don't have time to fix it now, so I'm just bringing this to everyone's attention so someone else can do it. (Someone)

I don't know myself how to manipulate form-style wiki.. Will have to look this up. Could someone please replace "Republic of Ireland"? Alternative names include Éire/Erin (native Irish) and Hibernia (Archaic) - (Someone Else) Cathal

I've fixed it, but I'm not sure if it's to everyone's satisfaction. Just a bit of cut and paste. Bathrobe 05:37, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Are these OK?

Myanmar/Burma? Rhodesia/Zimbabwe What about the former USSR?

[edit] Some countries should not be listed here.

  • Canada didn't change its name ans has no alternative name !
  • PRC : the only alternative name is Cathay. I dont know Shenzhou, isn't it the root name that gave China. All other names and expressions are argotic or colloquial.
  • ROC : good for Formosa or Taiwan or Taipei, the rest is anecdotic.
  • Germany seems to be here for the only reason that the name is different in various languages. Isn't it the subject of List of country names in various languages ?
  • Greece too.
  • Kazakhstan : ok for Alash, the rest is the same thing as in the article itself and maybe good for List of country names in various languages.
  • same thing for Poland.
  • Russia : all this for what ? I've not red the USSR usual former name !
  • Saudi Arabia : where is the alternative name ?
  • Serbia and Montenegro : yes, that's what is left around Zagreb from the former Yugoslavia. Where is the car plates code, the airplanes code... ?
  • Spain : no alternative !
  • Switzerland : all that for Helvetia. En français, nous disons Confédération helvétique et jamais Confédération suisse (In French we say C.h. and never C.s.) !
  • USA : no alternative.
  • UK : Caledonia is the alternative name for Scotland : have an entry for Scotland, it's a nation ! Albion is only Great-Britain, the island. At least it can be classed under England. In France, we use this word especially for England. Where is Britannia, the former latin name ?

In the same time, I don't understand why should be given the names of the countries or nations in the official languages of those as it should be done in List of country names in various languages or List of countries and capitals in native languages. I mean if it's not fundamentally different : Great Britain, Prydain Fawr, Breatainn Mhòr, Breataine Móire, Vreten Veur and Great Breetain are only translations the ones of the others; they are not alternative names. Anyway, friendly and wikiloving ! ℍenry, encyclophile (speak slowly, please) 12:06, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Official Names

Do we really need all the official names in this? People can click on the countrie's name and find the official one if they want it. 123.2.179.143 01:37, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Taiwan

There is debate going on about whether or not Taiwan is a country. I suggest removing Taiwan from this list to refrain from offending some people. Futureunwritten 03:23, 13 November 2007 (UTC)