Talk:List of UEFA Champions League winning players

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the List of UEFA Champions League winning players article.
Article policies
Status
It is unclear how many substitutes were allowed in the 50s, 60s and early 70s
Year Club Done To do
1956 Real Madrid First 11 5
1957 Real Madrid First 11 5
1958 Real Madrid First 11 5
1959 Real Madrid First 11 5
1960 Real Madrid First 11 5
1961 Benfica First 11 5
1962 Benfica First 11 5
1963 Milan First 11 + 1 Sub 4
1964 Inter First 11 5
1965 Inter First 11 5
1966 Real Madrid First 11 5
1967 Celtic First 11 + 1 Sub 4
1968 Man United First 11 + 1 Sub 4
1969 Milan First 11 5
1970 Feyenoord First 11 + 1 Sub 4
1971 Ajax First 11 + 2 Subs 3
1972 Ajax First 11 5
1973 Ajax First 11 5
1974 Bayern Munich First 11 5
1975 Bayern Munich First 11 + 2 Subs 3
1976 Bayern Munich First 11 5
1977 Liverpool 16 (Complete) 0
1978 Liverpool 16 (Complete) 0
1979 Nottingham Forest First 11 + 1 Sub 4
1980 Nottingham Forest First 11 + 3 Subs 2
1981 Liverpool 16 (Complete) 0
1982 Aston Villa First 11 + 1 Sub 4
1983 Hamburg First 11 + 1 Sub 4
1984 Liverpool 16 (Complete) 0
1985 Juventus First 11 + 2 Subs 3
1986 Steaua First 11 + 4 Subs 1
1987 Porto First 11 + 2 Subs 3
1988 PSV First 11 + 1 Sub 4
1989 Milan First 11 + 2 Subs 3
1990 Milan First 11 + 3 Subs 2
1991 Red Star First 11 + 1 Sub 4
1992 Barcelona First 11 + 2 Subs 3
1993 Marseille First 11 + 3 Sub 2
1994 Milan First 11 + 2 Subs 3
1995 Ajax 16 (Complete) 0
The additional medals for squad players are understood to have been introduced from 95/96.
1996 Juventus First 11 + 3 Subs 2 + Squad
1997 Dortmund 16 Squad
Subs were increased from 5 to 7 for the 97/98 season
1998 Real Madrid 18 + Squad Squad
1999 Man United 18 + 2 Squad Squad?
2000 Real Madrid 18 + Squad Squad
2001 Bayern Munich 18 + Squad (Complete) 0
2002 Real Madrid 18 + Squad Squad
2003 AC Milan 18 + Squad Squad
2004 Porto 18 Squad
2005 Liverpool 18 (Complete) 0
2006 Barcelona 18 + Squad (Complete) 0

Contents

[edit] European Cup (pre-"Champions League") winners

This list is not meant to include European Cup (pre-"Champions League") winners, correct? --ChaChaFut 17:46, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

I guess it's probably more useful with, so I've added the European Cup winners. I'm not sure the best way to format the list, but I suppose it could distinguish between the two. I guess the title probably needs changing as well. KeithD 18:01, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
I actually think that the title is proper. Regarding the formatting of the list, my suggestion is that this is done in two ways: by club (primarily), and by nationality. I don't think alphabetical ordering is needed. Now, if you want kill all birds in one shot and get really technical, you can use one of those wikitable "sortable" templates, which would allow the user to sort by name (although I don't know how to make it work by surname), by nationality, by club, and by years won. --ChaChaFut 18:13, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
I would suggest something like this:
Player Nationality Number of wins Years won Clubs won with
Alan Hansen Flag of Scotland 3 1978, 1981, 1984 Liverpool
Clarence Seedorf Flag of the Netherlands 3 1995, 1998, 2003 Ajax, Real Madrid, AC Milan
Bixente Lizarazu Flag of France 1 2001 Bayern Munich
Sortability would be useful, but you can only sort by what actually shows in the table, which wouldn't be by surname. I'd hold off sorting until that's available. ArtVandelay13 18:20, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
Yes! something like that. It is actually very similar to mine:
Player   Country   Club(s)   Titles won   Years   Notes  
Francisco Gento Flag of Spain Spain Real Madrid 6

--ChaChaFut 18:25, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

The layouts look good to me. To help with figuring out who played in what year, with what team, and how many wins, the two raw data posts I added (starting the article, and then adding European Cup winners as well) were cut and pasted from the relevant Wikipedia articles (all of which were sourced from www.rsssf.com in the first place). They're in chronological order, most recent to oldest. Someone has removed duplicate entries for multiple winners, but the diffs will still be there if that helps people find things. Not all the original Wikipedia articles included the unused subs from the matches (off the top of my head, I think it was just the Liverpool ones that did), so I guess other unused subs are the only people missing from the list. KeithD 18:32, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
The final articles post-1995 all show unused subs now, but before that, apart from the Liverpool ones, it's been really hard to find. It will do without them until/unless they are. It might be worth linking the years in the tables to that year's EC article, or the final article, to provide some background. ArtVandelay13 18:46, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
Isn't sorting by surname possible with a template like this <span style="display:none">{{{2}}}, {{{1}}}</span>[[{{{1}}} {{{2}}}]], where "1" is prename and "2" is lastname? For example {{sortname|Zinedine|Zidane}}. // SMARTSKAFT | ¿ 18:28, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
That sounds useful, but I'd worry about its accesibility. ArtVandelay13 18:34, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
The article may be about 5kb bigger, List of Sweden international footballers increased with 400 bytes per 40 rows when I tested. But I don't think it's so easy to count... // SMARTSKAFT | ¿ 20:14, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
No, I don't mean in terms of file size, but if you have stylesheets turned off, or are using a screenreader, the sortname will appear as normal, and it will be confusing. ArtVandelay13 21:32, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Table layout

I've stuck the content in a table, as per the above discussions. (I hope I've done it correctly!) I put the nationality first not for any reason of layout, but simply because I could do a find and replace on the existing data, and put it in table form with minimum fuss. KeithD 19:32, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Players not in the 18=

What's the position on players not in the 18 for the final? In the modern era, UEFA give out additional medals - 25 in total since 1996, 30 since 2006. Do we considere recipients of these additional medals (e.g. Roy Keane and Lionel Messi) as UCL winners? We've had this discussion on other topics, and there seems to be a difference between the continent - where this is counted as common practice, and the UK, where it isn't. I would err towards including these people, but I knnow that it's a lot harder to trace and verify. ArtVandelay13 20:26, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

As there's a 'Notes' section, I'd err towards including any verifiable information. The Roy Keane article says he received a medal, even though he didn't play. Any unused substitutes can similarly have a similar note. Fernando Morientes, however, wouldn't be listed for Liverpool's 2005 win, although he was a Liverpool player at the time, as he was ineligible (having played for Real Madrid earlier in that season's competition). I'd say it's easier for people to discount information that we've included (with an explanation), than want to know information that isn't included. KeithD 20:43, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Scorers and losing finalists

It's probably running before we're walking, but I had a couple of ideas for expanding the list. The first is to have a column for goals scored in the final. Easy enough to add, and all the information is already in the main articles.

The second was to also include losing finalists in the list, perhaps changing the title to List of players in UEFA Champions League finals. However, as the list is pretty long already, it might be better to (eventually) start a List of UEFA Champions League losing finalists. I'm not sure if either idea is hugely important, but thought I'd mention it in case anyone felt so inclined. KeithD 21:28, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

It might be worth adding a total of finals lost for players that have won, but listing all runners-up might make the list excessively big. ArtVandelay13 21:50, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

If Billy Costacurta was suspended for the '94 final due to a red card in the semis, should that not count toward his total of wins? 75.3.86.118 03:45, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pictures

This list would benefit from some pictures - to stay relevant, I'd limit it to pictures of players lifting the cup, rather than just any old picture of the players in question. Also, a picture of the Champions League medal would be great. As always, though, it's hard to find. ArtVandelay13 03:25, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

My concern is that it'd lead to an already large page becoming larger still. However, I guess the fact that such pictures may be hard to come by will mean that there'll be a limit to how many pictures appear. KeithD 08:54, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Improvements to the list, and making it a category

I think the nationality column needs to have the word, as well as just the flag, in order to make it sortable. However, there's a risk of it squeezing the page too much. The notes column could also include mention of if a player was captain. I'm happy to do both if no-one objects.

As useful as I find this list, I'm still finding that I'd like the increased functionality from a category as well, as first suggested at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Football#Categories_for.2C_say.2C_Champions_League_winner. I'd like to be able to search Google for, say, "Hibernian players" and "Champions League winners", and get a list of people who match both categories. (I mean to say players who once played for Hibernian, and happened to collect a Champions League winners medal elsewhere in their career). As the list has no red links (except for Ruben (footballer), but I'll stick a stub up later if no-one else does), it would be much more complete than, say FA Cup winners (although I'd actually like that to be a category as well!) I believe there's already a category for World Cup Winners; it makes sense to me for there to be a category for the biggest club prize, if there's one for the biggest international prize.

However, in the brief original discussion, someone raised a concern about it being category overcrowding. I also have no idea about how to create a category, and I imagine that as we've got it all in a neat list already, it would be possible for someone to make a bot to simply zip through all the links and add the category automatically. Thoughts? Suggestions? Objections? KeithD 08:54, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

I think I agree with the idea that it would be overcategorisation. In fact, I think the World Cup Winners category would be better served as a list; this page is far more useful and informative than that category. ArtVandelay13 17:47, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Captains

I've added the captains, taken from the relevant Wikipedia articles. The following seasons didn't list a captain: 1957, 1958, 1961, 1962, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1968, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1983, 1988, 1993, 1994, 1996 KeithD 18:39, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

2003 was Maldini, 2001 Effenberg, 1990 Baresi, 1982 Mortimer, 1975 Beckenbauer. I wonder if it would be better to put the years player was captain in bold, to save cluttering the notes field. We could also apply similar things for other notes that re-occur, such has italics for players not in the 18. ArtVandelay13 18:46, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
Added those (and removed from the above list). Thanks. The problem with bold and/or italic is that people couldn't sort by them. People can't also search Google for them. There aren't going to be that many more notes, surely? I guess scorers could be added, but I can't think what else. Paolo Maldini is the most 'cluttered' so far, and he's not markedly more so than Seedorf. Obviously, if there are lots of different notes added in the future, it might be necessary, but as it is, I can't see an advantage in leaving the notes column fairly empty. KeithD 19:39, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
OK, fair enough. I wouldn't add scorers, though, that's a bit too far. ArtVandelay13 23:43, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Steve Heighway

Steve Heighway of Liverpool (who has his own Wilkipage) is missing from the 1977 & 1978 lists. Can someone who knows how to edit the page correct this. Jjc2002 21:13, 5 May 2007 (UTC) Jjc2002

Y Done ArtVandelay13 21:35, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Costacurta

Costacurta won it in 1994 (not in the squad).He has won 5 European cups. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.190.250.141 (talk) 13:34, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mikael Silvestre

Did Silvestre win a winners' medal with Man Utd for 2007/2008? Thought he did played some game.