Talk:List of Soul Reapers in Bleach

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[edit] Article Rename and Expansion

Per the merge discussions at the main character list, merging this article into that list was declined by consensus. During that discussion, one idea that came up was to expand this article to encompass all of the Soul Society characters and rename the article to reflect that. This would help with the growing size issues of the main list, particularly with the other merge suggestions heading towards passing, and would give this article a greater breath of coverage. It also would make it better for readers to look up all of the Soul Society info in one place. Ideally, the article would start with a proper lead that includes a summary discussion of the Soul Society, then break out into sections on the shinigami and others. Please post below with an oppose/support style comment for this suggestion, along with your comments about the idea and why you support/oppose. Collectonian (talk) 12:42, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Oppose - I initially backed the idea of a renaming but after rethinking the process and outcome I decided against it. As good of intention as it is, we would be overstepping our boundaries by trying to simply too much. Soul reapers compose the vast majority of notable characters within the Soul Society. Hardly are there any others so they'd fit better with the general list. As well with expansion, the shinigami list article is already at 61k. Considering how much info we'd have to place in it would just push the article over what's acceptable and we'd need to severely trim or separate eventually. Fox816 (talk) 16:49, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
Support If all the soul socitey members were directed here, it would solve the constant AFDing of Soul Society's article, because, of course, it would be merged here. Sasuke9031 (talk) 02:47, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Response: I thought it would be more like List of Soul Society Characters or something... Sasuke9031 (talk) 21:32, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Response: What do you mean? Do you mean putting all the captains and lieutenants on one page? That would make it way easier to look up Gotei 13.Archer of destiny (talk) 23:41, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Response: The Captains and Lieutenants are already on one page, minus the ones capable of retaining individual articles. What else would be listed in the renamed page exactly aside the Soul Society characters listed in the general listing? Just adding the Soul Society article alone wouldn't be good enough reason to complicate the page (i.e. Having general info about the Soul Society then a list of characters, then descrip of Shinigami with a listing of the characters, etc...) Not only would size be an issue but the whole format would be rather undesirable. Shinigami are a stand alone by themselves and other Soul Society dwellers that aren't soul reapers play minor roles. The Vizard could be included in a general page of 'Other Races' or something along those lines where the Quincy and Bounts could be merged as well. Fox816 (talk) 01:01, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Oppose: That would make the article quite confusing and crowded. I think it's fine the way it is now.04:57, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
If you wouldn't mind signing your comments, because then I can know who stands where. I myself shared the same opinions regarding merging during the Itachi debate, but now this seems like the best decision. All it needs to pass WP:SIZE is a few modifications regarding clean-up and OR, and then merging the soul society characters here should be fine. Sasuke9031 (talk) 03:02, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
Comment The Soul Society characters are really fine where they are. For the most part they're minor so there's no need to do a whole revamp just to include such a small group. Where they are now is appropriate. In terms of inclusion of the Soul Society info, that article has been merged into the main Bleach article so that's not anymore a problem. We have to be careful not to bite off more than we can chew by trying to simplify things far too much than they need to be. Fox816 (talk) 03:09, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Yachiru Kusajishi

I think Yachiru should have a page. Yachiru plays an important comical role in both the omake and anime series. She is always seen around Zaraki Kenpachi and he appears quite often. She also plays a role in the SS arc as she leads Orihime, Uryu, Ganju and Aramaki to the execution site to save Rukia. There is a quite a lot of information on her including:

  • Her hyper-active personality
  • The nick-names she uses for different people
  • Her release of spirit energy when angry or annoyed
  • Her powers as a Shinigami (like her incredible strength and speed)
  • Her past with Zaraki Kenpachi
  • Her past with Ikkaku Madarame and Yumichika
  • Her habits and mistakes.
  • Being president of Shinigami Woman's Association
  • Her cravings for candy
  • and more

Please post a support or oppose. Archer of destiny (talk) 23:38, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Unfortunately that's all in-universe information. To be able to justify keeping a separate article we need out-of-universe info such as but not limited to : Character design, notes from the creator or director, real world impact if any, popularity, etc...Fox816 (talk) 01:06, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
Completely Oppose, no real world notability and would fails WP:FICT.Collectonian (talk) 01:25, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Okay! I just wanted to know. Thanks for replying! Case closed. Archer of destiny (talk) 04:55, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Wasn't there a picture or list of the captains' number characters and their English translations? NBK1122 (talk) 05:02, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Didn't Kubo say sometime recently that he wanted to extend Yachiru's character? Also, look at WP:FICT, her plot significance means nothing. 207.80.142.5 (talk) 15:01, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

He did? Could you cite that, direct me to a page? Sounds interesting. If you can find a citation, that might be nice to throw into her current section. IceUnshattered (talk) 00:53, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] 2nd div vice captain

Gegetsuburi transforms into an over sized spiked ball and chain. Its special abilities, if any, are unknown, as he is quickly dispatched by Ichigo Kurosaki during his first activation of it. It doesn't seem to be particularly sturdy, as Ichigo was able to shatter the spiked ball with a single, barehanded punch; however, considering that Ichigo is capable of fighting on par with captain-level shinigami, this may not be indicative of its actual strength. what would be indicitive of his strength? He didnt get the position due to his capability or competance and he fought against the main character and if that isn't a reliable reference point nothing is so I am going to be bold and remove that mention. 98.217.88.111 (talk) 02:32, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Your typical lieutenant generally has a fifth as much power as Ichigo had by that point. (I think.) So, yeah. If that's true, then it really wouldn't be surprising that the shikai broke. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.48.43.190 (talk) 07:39, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] 4th Division 3rd Seat

why is he not listed among the Shinigami in the 4th Division? he actually has more lines of speech than Sasakibe (1st Div Lieutenant) does, so why?

oh, don't ask me for his name. i keep forgetting. -_-

if you need a reference, please check chapter 179 of the manga. he's the blond guy in glasses.--Chemicalist (talk) 07:40, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Lieutenants are more important simply by virtue of rank, less speaking lines or no. Iemura (that's close), is just a bit of comic relief. — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 07:48, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Shūsuke Amagai

I want to ask everyone's opinion on this, should "Shūsuke Amagai" be listed as the new 3rd division captain? Supposely he is going to appear in a filler arc in the anime in April, but I personally feel that he shouldn't since a new captain is too big of a thing that will affect the article. A reader might read this and think that this is happening in the manga too and I want to remind everyone that only the stuff that appears on the manga should be consider to be canon and that this character is probably something that the producers on the anime came up with and didnt even tell Kubo about it.64.180.252.83 (talk) 07:55, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Your opinion is noted, but if you're going to act like it's such a tragedy, then complain about the anime-only third seat in the same section, Maki in the 11th, and the five or so in the "Other" section. Arbitrarily picking the one that annoys you the most won't fly. In any case, never before have we avoided adding anime-only characters (Bount) and we're not doing it now simply because they're playing a little closer to the street, so to speak. — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 07:59, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
The reason why I didn't care about a character like Maki is because she wouldn't affect the story as a whole, for all we know theres probably ten Maki in the 11th division, but there can only be one captain in a division and by the way i think the 3rd seat guy shouldn't be there either. 64.180.252.83 (talk) 08:14, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
Again, if you're only going to complain because of the severity of the supposed "slight" this fictional character is making, then you have no argument. We're not removing him simply because they're pushing it. — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 08:18, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
Fine, I'll won't change anything but those two better get killed before Kubo shows the REAL new 3rd captain, and there better be a clear note that these two characters are only in the anime.64.180.252.83 (talk) 08:25, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
"anime-exclusive filler", clear cut. And what if they don't die, hmm? — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 08:28, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
I'll see how I feel then, but seriously this better not affect the manga stuff when it gets turned into anime, i mean just look at the latest manga chapter, no trace of this guy anywhere.64.180.252.83 (talk) 08:35, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
No trace of any third division guy, you mean. The anime is not going to do something that will conflict with the manga's storyline unless they have a way to back out of it or, more likely, have Kubo's permission. You don't add a character to a story that the original author could very easily add themselves without their consent. ~SnapperTo 16:20, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Amagai is the new 3rd division captain. You don't get to try to exclude him from an article simply because he is from an anime-exclusive arc.

Second, you seem to imply that we care how you "feel" about him after the end of the arc. So long as Kubo doesn't come out and say directly "Shusuke Amagai does not exist, the episodes you saw in the anime were a mirage" or something to that effect, we don't : (

Lastly, he's definitely not going to be in any of the latest manga chapters, seeing as though they're flashbacks and he's, y'know, new. 207.80.142.5 (talk) 15:00, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Shouldn't it be mentioned atleast that studio pierott doesn't even intend to have this arc fit into the storyline at all. I mean they even said it takes place in another timeline at the beginning of the arc. You don't have to go as far as saying until kubo says it doesn't count it does count because pierott themselves are saying it doesn't count. Not to mention a whole bunch of details that don't add up and conflict with what we know 24.128.213.155 (talk) 11:08, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Gin as 5th

Do we really need to list Gin as a former Lieutenant of the 5th division, i mean if we are going to get technical we should list Aizen as a Lieutenant as well right? 24.83.237.237 (talk) 07:21, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Last I saw, we did have Aizen listed as a former Lieutenant. --erachima formerly tjstrf 07:31, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
Are we putting Captains where they were when they were Lieutenant i know that Gin is there but what about Aizen as the former 5th Lt and Urahara as the former 2nd division Lieutenant under Yoruichi i mean got to keep it consistant either have all or noneWhiteStrike (talk) 12:46, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
It's rather pointless to be listing Aizen as former lieutenant since he would, basically, be listed under himself. And Urahara was third seat, not lieutenant. If we list his former position, we might as well list Renji and Izuru as former members of fifth division, Iba as a former member of eleventh, and so on in that fashion. ~SnapperTo 22:59, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
Also, Urahara was the 3rd seat, not the lieutenant. — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 23:08, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Merging

Alright, I want to talk about merging Rangiku Matsumoto and Soifon's articles. Thoughts? Del rayo (talk) 22:17, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

NO, I though that we had finally reach a point that all this merging was gonna stop. I'm still against merging Matsumoto and i have heard some good arguments on why we are keeping Soifon and it looks like some more of her background may be shown during the turning back the pendulum chapters, so my vote is no WhiteStrike (talk) 06:07, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Lisa as former Lieutenant of Squad 8?

I'm not seeing how it can be assumed the girl seen with Kyoraku in chapter 316 is Lisa when it could just as easily be Nanao.

One, they dress differently. Nanao wears different glasses and her hakama isn't a skirt. Two, chapter -107 proves it with the color spread. — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 01:27, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Ashido's last name

I don't remember him mentioning his last name in the anime and since he does not appear in the manga can someone tell me where they got it from WhiteStrike (talk) 13:04, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Read the hidden comments.
<!-- The Japanese Wikipedia site detailing the names of all the BLEACH characters has Ashido's full name listed with the kanji provided here. PLEASE DO NOT CHANGE THIS!! -->
— Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 15:41, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Muguruma Kensei as 9th Division Captain?

Given that the 11th Division Captain was absent during Urahara's inauguration, I think it is safe to say that Muguruma Kensei was the previous 9th Division Captain.02:36, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

6th is also unaccounted for, though it's probably the old dude in the scarf. In any case, process of elimination hasn't quite leveled out yet, so saying he's the ninth, while most likely true, cannot be properly sourced. — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 03:03, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
There was no one present for the tenth division either. While I agree with the above that the old one with the scarf is likely the sixth division captain (that's likely Byakuya to the left as his lieutenant), it's speculation until it's either pointed out or we can see the division logo on the back of his haori. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 07:41, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Magato and Shuusuke Picture

Would it be apporiate to upload a picture of the fillers charcter since we already have one for Han'tao?--Numyht (talk) 19:09, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

I agree about adding a picture that includes both the Captain and 3rd seat of the 3rd division, will look for one that has both of them or one that has them two plus Kira and add them if no one has any complains. WhiteStrike (talk) 08:09, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
found a good picture with all three and just added it. WhiteStrike (talk) 19:50, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Tsukabishi Tessai

I think we should create a new section for the Kidou Corps as it has been revealed that Tsukabishi Tessai is a former shinigami.Erik-the-red (talk) 14:09, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

That seems like a fitting thing to do, and Hachigen could also be included. As of right now, though, perhaps we should include those two in the "Other" section, since the Kidou Corps has so little available information and there is not a separate listing or special mention for the Covert Ops. Lore aura (talk) 16:54, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
There is no seperate mention for the covert ops brigade but then all of it's notable members were also in the gotei 13's 2nd Division not true for the kidou corps —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.128.213.155 (talk) 10:53, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
Eh, excuse me, 24.128.213.155, I didn't quite understand that fully. Are you stating that all of the imporant members in the Onmitsukido/stealth force/cover ops (whatever they're really called) were also members of the 2nd division? So that would put them in the main Gotei 13 listing, correct? I agree with Lore Aura. Right now, since there really aren't so many people we know in the Kido Corps and there's not much info released, we should just put Hachigen and Tessai into the "Other" shinigami. That sounds good for now. And, if we get enough info, we can make a separate section for those Kido Corps. Sound fine to me. IceUnshattered (talk) 00:49, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Special forces (or whatever) are completely separate from the 2nd division, in theory. However, sometimes the 2nd division captain also gets leadership of that group, which means that the two really become more or less one and the same. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.48.43.190 (talk) 07:35, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Characters to add back

I admit it, adding the scientists and the Gatekeepers back was over the top. But I still think a case could be made for the other three. As outlined in an edit summary, Maki Maki joins the protagonists' group, and the other two had fights and zanpakuto, especially Jirobo, who is a major fight in the Soul Society arc. My attempts to justify my decision to do this were met by a revert, a pointer to a discussion that's been closed for ages and is more about merging than anything, and an extremely condescending message on my talkpage. Please give an explanation beyond "lol shorter" before talking down to me. Thanks. PS, Speaking of Jirobo, anyone know his seiyuu? Belgium EO (talk) 01:09, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Jirobo's fight didn't last very long and it was more of a filler than anything notable. He's never seen again. On top of that, Uryu removed his soul reaper powers permanently, not temporarily as listed, basically doing to him what Byakuya did to Ichigo when they first met. There's little if anything to have him here. The same with Enjoji, short and filler. Out of the three, the only one that has some kind of reasonable chance of staying is Maki just because he stayed with the group and seen more than the other two. His role is very minor as well and he holds no importance at all in the series. It's all fancrufty just to keep them. Fox816 (talk) 01:47, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
We don't cover very minor characters that have no importance to the plot. See WP:WEIGHT and WP:NOT#PLOT. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 06:12, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Changing/Deleting Information Based on Personal Preference

I would like to address the changing/deleting of portions of this article based on what I believe to be personal preference rather than accurate information. Several times I have seen the character Senna, the shinigami who appears in the Bleach movie, as well as other movie-based characters, removed from the list. I can only assume this is being done by someone who simply does not care for the movie and I disagree with this. Whether one cares for a movie or for the animated filler arcs is hardly the point of this article. An encyclopedia is for information and like it or not, the characters exist. Seeing as there are other non-canon characters still listed in the article, it would go along the same line that movie characters should be added as well. Regardless as to whether an individual believes a certain character is important or not, the standards should be kept across the board and not bent and changed at the whims of one person.

Senna, as a character, played a pivotal role in the plot of the movie, at least as significant as some of the other filler-based characters who are still listed among the "other" shinigami and this should be recognized whether individuals LIKE her character or not. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.189.128.191 (talk) 18:30, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

I believe that if characters such as Ran'tao, Enryu and Kenryu, and Ashido are mentioned in this article, then Senna has a place too. If you are going by the fact that 'she's not canon, etc etc', then in the same vein, those ones should be deleted also, because they too are not canon. Within the movie, she was quite important, and she, even though being the Memory Rosary, was also a Shinigami at the time. She has as much right as the other characters previously mentioned to be upon this page. An encyclopedia is for information; and whether one likes the movie/character and thinks the character is a valid character or not should not come into any realm of consideration here.

This is a response to the comment on the editing page "characters whose status as inconsequential has not been refuted on the talk page".

Thank you.

--Lorelei75.189.128.191 (talk) 18:32, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Honestly, why even bother have Senna's name be directed to the list of Shinigami if her name isnt even listed? And why not? Does she not have her own Zanpakutou with unique abilities? Does she not play a major role in the movie? You will give a small person like Kenryu a spot then Senna had beter get one as well. I was coming here hoping to see some info on her zanpakutou and i was greatly dissapointed to see that she wasnt listed. Also since the english movie is coming out on the 11th and the 12th i wanted to know who would be voice acting her. Naturally since she wasnt listed i had to go to another article and look up a few different female voice actors for bleach. Thanks alot. so for the sake of taking your Bleach article up a notch you should just add her. What harm will it do? I mean this IS an encyclopedia, they need to expand.

List of Bleach characters#Senna. ~SnapperTo 18:35, 9 June 2008 (UTC)