Talk:List of Satanists

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Contents

[edit] Cross over between religions?

It seems to me that there is enough crossover between satanism, chaos magick, and Thelema that a person being part of one of these does not have not be part of any of the others Unregistered text offender 13:56, 9 June 2007 (UTC) whatsmore as i said before Lucifarienism is the same thing as Satanism Unregistered text offender 13:58, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Self proclaimed Satanists

How can one say that someone who proclaimes themselves to be a Satanist is not one? Unregistered text offender 13:48, 9 June 2007 (UTC) Self proclaimed Satanists should either be in the real satanists part of this list or in the disputed satanists part of it. Unregistered text offender 13:50, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Stupidity removed

Removed this one:

"ROB ZOMBIE- IN A INTERVIEW IN ROLLING STONES ROB ZOMBIE CLAIMNED HE PROMOTS THE CHURCH OF SATAN ALONG WITH OTHER BANDS SLIPKNOT,CRADLE OF FILTH,NINE INCH NAILS,MARILYN MANSON IN WHICH ROB ZOMBIE IS A SATANIST"

... but kept it for humorous posterity. - 195.184.109.162 12:40, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dani Filth

Filth has recently denied being a Satanist. His name ought to be removed.

- Ok, I just noticed someone reverted my amendment to Dani. COF IS NOT BLACK METAL. They do not regard themselves as Black Metal, and Black Metal bands/fans do not recognise COF as one either. Significant differences musically, as well as major differences lyrically.

- isnt cradle black metal? atleast the first record could be considerd BM. maybe the lyrics isnt standard black metal, but they do describe dark forest and other scandinavian stuff that usualy are black metal, like immortal they dont have the kind of satanistic lyrics but tend to realy on describing dark moody forest and snow.

[edit] SAMMY DAVIS, JR.

Honorary Member - Real Member - What the bleep is the difference! He was a "MEMBER!" Sammy's own niece reported on a television program that her uncle Sammy had an extra long "pinkie" finger nail which was painted red during his time as a satanist! That sounds to me that he was an active member!

Here is some more information from: Anton LaVey: Legend and Reality by Zeena LaVey Anton's daughter!


"LEGEND: ASL was a close friend of Sammy Davis, Jr. and inducted him into the Church of Satan.

REALITY: Sammy Davis, Jr. was invited to accept an honorary membership in the Church of Satan by Michael Aquino. After Davis sent Aquino his acceptance on March 17, 1973, he was presented with the honorary membership on April 13, 1973 by Aquino and Karla LaVey alone. ASL did not meet Davis until August 1973.

SOURCES: Davis letter to Aquino 3/17/73; Church of Satan Priesthood Bulletin 4/30/73; Aquino, COS, Chapter 23; Sammy Davis, Hollywood in a Suitcase (pre-publication text, printed in Daily News, New York, 9/11/80), Karla LaVey."

Now, quit removing Sammy Davis, Jr.'s name! Puca 20:41, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)


Sammy Davis Jr. was definately a member of the Church of Satan in the 1970s.I have inserted him back into the article.

Are you sure? How do you know?

Mr Davis accepted an honorary Warlock II membership 13 April, 1973. There is a picture of him with Dr LaVey in "Satan Wants You", by Arthur Lyons (another early Church of Satan member).

French General Gilles de Rais is another notable Satanist. As well, one might add Sir Francis Dashwood, who initiated Benjamin Franklin into the Hellfire Club.

I know my own memory will not be considered a reliable source but I remember Sammy being the Phil Donahue show saying that he used to keep one of his fingernails painted red to show his allegiance to the Church of Satan. He was promoting his autobiography at the time so it may be written in there MrBlondNYC 11:11, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

He accepted it, but he did not know what he was accepting, and therefore was not a real member of the church.

[edit] King Diamond

you forgot to add him to the list

he's debatable though isn't he? I know he agrees with Lavey's philosophy, but is he actually a member of the church? I've read an interview where he basically says "yeah sure if agreeing with LaVey makes me a satanist then okay" _NOT a quote, just the impression I got

[edit] Marilyn Manson

"though does not believe in Satan as a physical entity" - which Satanists do? The Church of Satanism doesn't describe Satan as a real, but metaphorical, entity? So wouldn't this apply to all on the list... --Oldak Quill 10:55, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I agree. From what I understand about LaVeyan Satanism, all Church of Satan members are atheists. The qualification is nonsensical. -- Jamiem

Indeed, and having already removed this qualification, it has been out back on again. And Manson has in fact been moved to mislabelled satanists, which is also untrue.Dev920 15:25, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Eagles

Although I don't have very reliable sources, I have read that at least some of the members of the band The Eagles were involved in LaVey's church, does anyone have definite information on that one?

"Hotel California" was composed to inaugurate LaVey's church.
  • Says who? Document it if it should be included; I'm removing otherwise. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 02:33, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Serial Killers

There is no reason to have murders or serial killers on this list. Ramirez was a pseudo-Satanist as was Berkowitz and neither practice any tenets or characteristics of Modern (LaVeyan) Satanism, so there for I moved them to the end of the list under "Those who claim to be Satanists..." Ash 20:32, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

  • Where does it say this is a list of any particular Satanist trad? --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 01:25, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Mislabeled Satanists?

Should they be removed as they aren't Satanists? It looks like we could get a small list of Thelemites and move some over to list of ateists. Ir should we start to include George W Bush[1], Pat Robertson[2] and many more. // Liftarn

  • Buh? The whole point of them being there is that the people listed should have been frequently and incorrectly cited as being Satanists. That Bush is listed as one on a humor site is pretty much irrelevant to anything except humor; that one loony site considers anyone making the "hook 'em horns" sign to be a Satanist isn't really enough to qualify 'em either. I don't know anything about the heavy metal names on the list (or particularly care); but there are ongoing rumors, stories, and urban legends about the alleged Satanism of other entries (such as Crowley, Sammy Davis Jr. (I wonder about that one), Jayne Mansfield, Jack Parsons, and Jimmy Page). I do wonder why Richard Ramirez isn't simply on the top list, since, though his Satanism wasn't of any particular neo-Satanist cult, he included considerable Satanist iconography in his crimes. But Bush? Robertson? --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 16:55, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
I have bumped into person who thing W Bush is a Satanist. If you want I can dig up more sources that claims he's a Satanist.[3][4][5] [6][7][8][9][10]// Liftarn
And I've bumped into people who think the Teletubbies are satanists. But let's see. From the first link, we learn that most everybody in Texas is going to hell. Good source. Might even be accurate. From the second, we need to also include Bush Sr., Kissinger, L. Rockefeller, pretty much every world leader. From the third, everyone in Skull & Bones. (Oh, Bush is homosexual, too.) From the fourth, he's clearly an Illuminist. The fifth is about Skull & Bones again. The sixth is just fucking insane. As is the seventh, David "I'm a raving loon" Icke. The final one seems to think he's Hitler, or at least a comedian playing Hitler...oh, to hell with it. I guess he stays. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 18:48, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
In most cases it's the same loons that think W Bush is a Satanist that thinks that for instance Ozzy Osbourne is a Satanist. Teletubbies are fictional characters so they don't belong in the list. // Liftarn
You think? Seems to me there are at least some obvious signs of deliberate play-acting on Ozzy Osbourne's part, while the Bush things are a different breed of lunacy. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 19:04, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Well W Bush do semms to flash the horned salute very often. Anyway, either the list should contain people misslabeled as Satanists or it shouldn't. In the first case both W Bush, Pat Robertson and a bunch of others or we should only list those who actually are Satanists. Just listing some people seems wrong. // Liftarn

_______________________________________________________________________________________________ DANI FILTH I recently came across an interview with Dani Filth in which he described himself as mor eof a "Luciferian". That said, I wonder why the Lucifeiranism oage on wikipedia does'nt have a "List of Luciferians" page yet? Perhaps Dani should be the first to be entered therein?

From what I can tell, Dani is best described as either Luciferian or perhaps a "Dark Pagan". --Irreverand-Bill 00:34, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

GLEN BENTON Taken from an interveiw What does your brand of Satanism mean to you basically?

Well, when people say Satanism, I say Christianity labels me as Satanist. I mean, there is no such thing as a Satanist as far as like - who the hell do you call a Satanist? Anton Lavey? There's a lot of different philosophies –

Oh, so you were just labeled a Sa-

Yeah, I get called a fuckin Satanist and that, but what I believe is that the Commandments of God are a crock of shit. I believe that I'm not gonna fuckin live my life by any kinda fuckin laws that have been created by a fuckin, I don't know what you call him - I just call him a fuckin joke. But I don't live my life like that, as far as like if there was a God and there is a Satan, if there is a Hell and there is a Heaven, I'm not going to Heaven. And for good reason! Because the people I've met that believe in God and all that kind of crap – they're usually just idiots, and I can't stand to be with them. So I would say I'd rather go to Hell, man. The people there are a lot more interesting.

Oh, okay. So you're not actually Satanist – that's just what you were branded?

Like as far as what? Burning churches?

Yeah, or the Lavey –

I mean, what do you want to call a Satanist? Somebody that goes around butchering babies and fuckin up little teenage girls' heads with Satanism shit? No man. It's a philosophy – a way of life, a way of thinking. It's not like I've got a fire in my backyard and I'm dancing around it in my goatskin and my fuckin chaps.

Ha!

You know, or I've got an altar set up, got a lady up there – fuckin, that's all Halloween shit. I'm more of an intellectual fuckin combatant of fuckin God. So yes, if you'd like to fight the battle against Christianity, do it on a fuckin intelligence level, not a fuckin theatrical level.

I myself basically dislike the idea of all religions. Trying to base your life on –

Anything organized I don't want anything to do with. If you gotta pay 99 dollars to get a fuckin membership card or some shit like that to the fuckin Church of Satan or whatever the fuck, I don't want nothing to do with that. It's a business. Christianity, religion, all that shit – it's all a fuckin business.

Based on fear.

You know how I got my profession doing what I do, there's people out there in the world who think, "I'm gonna take the easy way out. Digging ditches and washing dishes and shit like that ain't working for me, so I think I'm gonna go to monk school or whatever, priest school, and take the easy way out." A lot of people do that. I just think it's just a way of making a living.

Are you against all religions like that? Like Islam and Hindu?

Any organized religion. If you wanna believe in this and that, I've always been one of these people that's like – I've been persecuted for what I believe and I've always been one of those people that's like, "You believe what you want to believe. Just leave me out of it." So I won't come out looking for you unless you fuck with me. So if you're gonna show up at my shows and picket me, yeah I'm gonna get out there. I'm gonna throw water on ya, I'm gonna kick you in the ass, I'm gonna fuckin give you a wedgie. But if you go your way and do your own thing, believe whatever the fuck you wanna believe. And that's what it's all about. It's all about freedom to fuckin do what you want and believe what you want.


Lucifarianism is the same thing as Satanism Unregistered text offender 13:54, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Jon Schaffer from Iced Earth

Why is he on the list? I couldn't find any credible sources that said he was a practicing satanist; some fellow Iced Earth fans have told me that Jon is a Christian. The quote from the interview is in this forum thread. (Forums are not reliable sources.) He said that he went through a satanist "phase" for 2-3 years before deciding that satanism was stupid, and that now he is merely against organized religion. Given the nature of young teenagers to experiment with things, it is probably inaccurate to list Jon here. --Idont Havaname (Talk) 21:12, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Notability

Notability is a requirement of Myspace. Not people who added their myspace pages to lists to advertise their churches. WerewolfSatanist 00:57, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] George Bush

George W Bush
George W Bush

Why is George Bush listed as a disputed satanist? It seems like something only a crazy religious fanatic would think of. I removed it once because I thought it was vandalism/libel. Tobermory6 21:20, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

It has a reliable source (unlike most other on this list). Also if crazy religious fanatics thinks GWB is a Satanist and other dienies it there is indeed a dispute. // Liftarn
I agree, but I'm pretty sure the part about him not being able to spell Satan is vandalism.Deathstryker
I think it's pretty obvious that George W. Bush is a satanist. Don't believe his BS about it being the hand gesture for the University of Texas, he never went to the University of Texas (he applied but was rejected[11])! --Hornet35 08:39, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
There shouldn't even be a list of disputed satanists much less a list of satanists. This entire list is made up of "holier than thou" Christians who feel they can pass judgment on other people. Wikipedia is supposed to be based on fact, not on biased opinions based on religion, politics, or otherwise. DJKingpin 15:09, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
No, Wikipedia is based on reliable sources, not facts. // Liftarn
OK, well George W. Bush being a Satanist isn't based on fact or reliable sources. It's based on personal webpages and articles put out by extreme religious viewpoints. Neither of those are reliable sources. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DJKingpin (talk • contribs) 15:34, August 30, 2007 (UTC)
Yes, we have a reliable source saying the pope thinks that W Bush "bear all the hallmarks of the one warned about in the Book of Revelations--the anti-Christ.". The claim is from Catholic New Times that is "Canada's award-winning social justice and faith journal" so it's a reliable source. // Liftarn
That picture if of George Bush giving the Hook 'em Horns during his inauguration parade because the UT band was marching past. He's from Texas, and one of the Bush twins went there, so of course he knew what that sign was. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 2Snazzy (talk • contribs) 17:42, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Redirected to Satanism

I have redirected this article to Satanism because it is a major violation of our Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons policy. It is not a deletion and this article is allowed to be recreated but this list was not sourced and shouldn't be restored without solid references for every entry. violet/riga (t) 15:48, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

That was a major change to do without discussing it first so I reverted it. Please note that at least some of the entries are sourced. Why not use {{fact}} instead? // Liftarn
Sorry but I've had to revert - this is a serious BLP violation and must be removed. There were only two entries that had references, one of which is a wiki and not a reliable source. Perhaps we can gather entries here with references, but we need to keep the article this way for now. violet/riga (t) 09:06, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
Say, why not do the same with List of Christians for instance? I'm sorry, but what you did looks more like vandalism than a valid edit. // Liftarn
Because I haven't looked at that yet. violet/riga (t) 11:07, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
Ah, perhaps Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Christians (2nd nomination) would be of interest. // Liftarn
Indeed - I nominated it. violet/riga (t) 18:03, 2 September 2007 (UTC)