Talk:List of Samurai Champloo characters

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Contents

[edit] Speculation

There's a crapton of speculation on this page. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 12.215.224.101 (talk • contribs) .

Much of which is indicated and not passed off as fact, I think. Moreover, the show encourages speculation. --Antrophica 15:19, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

The show may incourage speculation, but let's do our best to limit such speculation. It doesn't promote a nuetral, fact based point of view, it only encourages people into believing what they've heard and then the process of laying claims that they are right and you are wrong occur. Let's not do that. -- Makaio 02:02, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Character information

  • Hey, I tried to add in Heike Shige from episode 22. (IMO he's one of the cooler and more unique villains and deserves a spot in the list.) I don't have the know-how to put in a picture, though, so if someone could find a portrait of him and put it in there that would be sweet, thanks.
I'll get to it when I find the time. --Antrophica 03:07, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

As far as the bio of "Kohza" it would seem as though her begging Mugen to kill her stems from the fact that she knows Mugen would not take her with him and the fact that with everyone else dead she has no one left to take care of her. Also it would seems to Mugen that leaving her alive and alone is the worst punishment for her, hence the reason he smiles as he walks off. -T.J. Styles (March 2nd, 2006 1:30am)

That's information that has been documented since the first version. I'm not sure Mugen is smiling when he leaves her to suffer, though. If I recall correctly, he was wearing a pretty serious expression. --Antrophica 15:19, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

There was no smile. I checked. It's up to interpretation why he did it, but he sure didn't look happy to.Threefourfive 21:22, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Protected

I have protected this page from editing due to the sterile edit war which appears to have been going on for over a month. Protection is not an endorsement of the current article version. Both participants in the edit war should discuss the dispute and come to a compromise on this talk page. Rhobite 00:57, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

I've already attempted to discuss this with Siddhartha21 on my talk page, but we failed to come to a compromise. I've omitted the sentence, "likely with the notion that Jin led an alternative lifestyle," because it's unwieldly, states the obvious, and comes across as a tad homophobic. All in all, it's clutter. As I've stated, the only plausible reason one man would attempt to seduce another man, especially in circumstances like that (the incident took place in a hot spring), is if he was under the impression that the other man was gay. Inuyaka's motives were clear enough that the sentence, "likely with the notion that Jin led an alternative lifestyle," is unnnecessary, as is this whole dispute. I hope we can get past this, so the article's protection can be removed, so we can get about adding something constructive to it instead of continuing to beat a dead horse. --Antrophica 03:41, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

I’ve been puzzled as to why Antrophica has been so aggressively apposed to my edit that he would remove it altogether however I’m willing to consider a compromise if he has any suggestions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.213.167.25 (talk • contribs)

Glad you're both here. I'm not familiar with the series, but I'm wondering why this phrase is necessary. Isn't it kind of implied that when one man tries to seduce another man, he thinks the man is gay? Rhobite 04:11, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

That's a possibility but it certainly isn’t a given to assume this. It’s really about manipulation and I could see how some people can people can be left a little confused. He tries to seduce Jin… O.K. why? That’s kind of a bizarre turn of events in which I feel needs a slightly further explanation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.213.167.25 (talk • contribs)

I've been puzzled myself as to why Siddhartha21 has been so aggressively opposed to my removing of his edit that he would persist in reinserting it time and time again despite my best efforts at making my reasons clear to him. The simple fact of the matter is that Inuyaka tried to seduce Jin because he was interested in Jin. He was trying to pick Jin up. It couldn't have been more obvious, unless he wrapped his arms around Jin and began nibbling at the edges of the earlobe. There was no manipulation involved because he was paid to assassinate Jin, not glean information. He was trying to get into Jin's pants (or kimono) before doing the job. There is nothing bizzare or complex to it. It's just that simple. I understand Jin's sexuality is a controversial topic, but the show only throws suggestions out and never makes it clear, whether Jin is heterosexual or bisexual (he's clearly not simply homosexual as we've seen). The sentence, "likely with the notion that Jin led an alternative lifestyle," suggests that Inuyaka is completely wrong about Jin and that Jin is not attracted to men, which has yet to be proven. Do you understand where I'm coming from? It's almost like we're documenting incorrect information. I'm also concerned, as I've stated before, about you labelling homosexuality as an alternative lifestyle, especially in this day and age. Additionally, you ought to sign in before making an edit, in future. Your IP address changes from time to time, and it's tricky to tell who you are. You can sign your posts by typing ~~~~ at the end of them. As for the compromise, the sentence, "likely with the notion that Jin led an alternative lifestyle," has to be replaced with something more constructive, or go altogether. I hope we can finally put this dispute to rest. --Antrophica 15:03, 25 February 2006 (UTC)


Antrophica has made it clear that his position on this matter is very personal and misguided, not to mention unreasonable and paranoid. Meaningful questions have not been addressed such as: Is the information false? Is the information misleading? Antorphica seems to have forgotten about the neutrality that is suppose to be exercised here at Wikipedia rather deciding to peruse a route of subjective and paranoid rationalizing. Antorphica does not seem to have wavered his position in the least in fact he seems more unwilling than ever. Also, I don’t really see how this matters but the point that it was never blatantly established that Jin had absolutely no sexual interests in other men is not very suggestive considering the fact that this was not confirmed with any of the characters. As for Inuyaka’s motives for trying to seduce Jin, the idea that he wanted to satisfy his own homosexual desires before killing Jin is a possibility although it’s more probable that he did this in order to get him in a vulnerable position to make the job easier. From his masquerading as a weak and feeble samurai and lying to Jin about the sunflower samurai we see that his main tactic is deception. At any rate, I’m still waiting to see if Antrophica has any suggestions other than the complete removal of my edit. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Siddhartha21 (talk • contribs)

The first half of your argument is a paraphrase of my argument against you, which leads me to question your ability at coherent comprehension. And then you go on and bring up an actually rational and intelligible point, which leaves me to wonder if you're sharing a body with anyone else. First things first. I stand by my original Unwavering, Unpersonal, Unparanoid, Unsubjective Stance™ that the sentence, "likely with the notion that Jin led an alternative lifestyle," (which I know by heart now and could probably reiterate if my brain were damaged) is feckless and suggests that Jin has no homosexual tendencies at all. It's misleading and possibly false, which goes against Wikipedia's mission statement. We'll need to document Inuyaka's "manipulation game", yes, but removing misinformation has priority over inserting new information. There. I pray this doesn't drag on any farther, because since the debate on my talk page, all we've been doing is repeating ourselves in alternative ways. --Antrophica 03:19, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Well, unfortunately it appears that I was correct. Not only has Antrophica become even more reluctant but also in his apparent frustration, he has now resorted to petty insults. Taking into account that there is no explicit basis to demand the removal of this edit, it is not as important that I prove why it should be implemented but rather for you to present a thorough and most importantly valid argument explaining why it should absolutely be removed. Your seemingly objective arguments simply aren’t sufficient enough to overshadow your personal and baseless arguments. Along with other factors, to be so inspired to remove such a brief extension multiple times a day for over a month makes it very difficult to believe the idea that the motive behind this isn’t driven by personal and subjective reasons. If it were truly your desire to end this trivial dispute then being cynical and offensive, along with rehashing the same stale claims probably isn’t the best course to follow. Hopefully you will present something constructive in your next reply although I sense this discussion won’t be heading in a more positive direction. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Siddhartha21 (talk • contribs)

I've never seen or heard of this show before, but upon looking at both arguments the sentence "likely with the notion that Jin led an alternative lifestyle" is unnnecessary and poorly worded IMO. For a fair compromise, maybe a couple sentences on the sexual orientation of this character Jin could be added in his bio to ensure that there is no confusion.--Count Chocula 07:31, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Siddhartha21, I have absolutely nothing against you. Well, I don't think you're very bright and would readily tackle you into a brick wall lined with horseshoe nails if the chance presented itself, but all that isn't really affecting my objectivity in this matter. I'll think of something to elaborate on Inuyaka's "manipulation game", or maybe someone else will beat me to it. Anyhow, the sentence, "likely with the notion that Jin led an alternative lifestyle," will go eventually. As Count Chocula said and as I've already said before, it's unnecessary and poorly worded, and thus lowers Wikipedia's quality. This isn't about emerging victorious from a heated battle. I'm under no obligation to make you happy, because the sentence, "likely with the notion that Jin led an alternative lifestyle," has no place in the article; this just isn't one of those cases where both parties have valid points that can be taken into consideration. If your contribution had been constructive and added positively to the article, I'd have left it alone. It's been close to three days since the article was locked down and I reckon it doesn't deserve to be deprived of improvement because of an overblown, pointless dispute. If someone else is willing to make Siddhartha21 happy and can help cook up a "compromise sentence", then please, go ahead and type it out. I don't feel he deserves that from me. Don't you worry, List of Samurai Champloo Characters, they'll have to set you free sooner or later. Once you're reopened, we'll get rid of the unnecessity and poor choice of words and you'll be able to run again, through all those warm green fields, just like before. I promise. --Antrophica 15:37, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Antrophica, the level to which you have lowered yourself is very disturbing. To threaten me with physical violence is inexcusable and likely a violation of Wikipedia policy although I’m sure it is useless to take note of this seeing as I’m probably stating the obvious. I’m not sure what condition your mental health is in but I’m sorry that our discussion didn’t help. I predicted this conversation would take a turn for the worse but I never imagined it would lead to threats. You have exposed yourself and it seems you were never interested in a mutual resolution after all. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Siddhartha21 (talk • contribs)

Lighten up, man. If we met in public, the most I'd do was club you over the head with a shitzu-sized concrete block and force you to listen to System of a Down music played a full blast through headphones glued to your ears upon awakening. I don't think it could get any worst than that. --Antrophica 18:17, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Alright, now this is just ridiculous. You guys are arguing over a sentence in a minor characters profile... is anybody home? I mean come on! We've decided on slowing up the progression of an article because of a sentence in a minor character profile!?! What the hell is going on?

Inuyaka is an assasin hired to kill Jin. Presumably he tried to seduce Jin in order to kill him, however that is speculation in and of itself because of inuendo. This entire premise behind this sentence is all speculation, everything from the idea of a possible seduction, to the idea that Jin might be gay, it's all speculation. All of it! It is all speculation! Why is it all speculation you may ask? Because it was never outright detailed that this is what happened. The creators never said, "Yes, Inuyaka is trying to seduce Jin because he believes Jin has an alternate lifestyle and it'll be easier to kill him." It might have been what they were thinking, but because it was never outlined in the scene that uses mostly inuendo concerning fireflies, it's speculation! Yes it is speculation! I have no idea where this competition stemmed from but come on people, this isn't that hard to look at and figure out.

And now, because it is speculation based off of mildly innocent inuendo, it is not proven fact, and therefore it shouldn't be in the damn article... Now that the debate of the lone sentence from a minor character profile is over, let's get back to actually progressing with the article... please. -- Makaio 08:13, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

I would strike the clause as original research. There's no way to tell why Inuyaka hit on Jin, other than speculating on the facts, so let's report the facts and let people speculate for themselves. My personal guess is that Inuyaka knew enough about Jin to think that his ploy at least had a shot, but it's also possible that Inuyaka just wanted Jin to think that he had lured him to the hot tub for sex just to throw Jin off guard (remember that Inuyaka's whole deal was deceiving people into underestimating him - depending on Edo-era attitudes, acting gay might be just be another part of his 'act old and cowardly' strategy. There's no way to tell whether Inuyaka thought Jin would go for it, so I say don't speculate. TheronJ 22:48, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

The article was protected for a week and a half. I am trying unprotection now. Please do not threaten or personally attack other contributors. And just because the article is unprotected, it doesn't give you a license to revert war again. You guys should continue this discussion on the talk page if there is still a dispute. Rhobite 23:00, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Since discussion with Antrophica has proven futile, having been reduced to threats, perhaps some compromising changes will help avoid another pointless edit dispute. Siddhartha21 04:51, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Siddhartha21, if you look past my sense of humor you'll see that I've laid down my points (assuming you don't ignore them) on why your Alternative Lifestyle Contribution is unnecessary and poorly worded, and that everybody else who's participated in this dispute has pretty much agreed with me. As I said, this is not about winning or losing; it's about making Wikipedia a better encyclopedia. I'm glad you've finally come to your senses and refrained from reinserting your unnecessary and poorly worded contribution. I hope you'll go on to become a productive member of this community, because your milestone seems to be fighting for the existence of half of a sentence that eventually got deleted anyway. --Antrophica 15:10, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Yukimaru

As long as we're on the subject, what's up with the note that Yukimaru might have been Jin's lover from years ago? There is absolutely nothing to support this in the episodes IIRC--Jin is no more likely to be a bisexual (we KNOW he's not gay) than any other character in the series. This is a case where the absence of evidence must qualify as evidence of absence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Piedmon Sama (talk • contribs)

The evidence to support this bit of speculation already exists in this article. --Antrophica 03:13, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
Nothing in the shudo article says that people in shudo relationships refered to their partners as brothers or little brothers. Maybe that should be added to the shudo article to make the support more clear.TheronJ 22:51, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

I think it's needless, but whatever. -- Makaio 04:41, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree that there isn't nearly enough of a basis to support this theory. 151.213.167.25 00:02, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

And here I was thinking you were just a homophobe, Siddhartha21. You're obviously on your way to becoming a productive member of society. Good on you. --Antrophica 05:09, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mugen's fighting style

FWIW, Mugen's fighting style does resemble capoeria, but Shinichiro Watanabe based it on breakdancing rather than any existing martial art.[1]TheronJ 22:42, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Since the resemblance to capoeria is obvious, it may as well be noted. However, Mugen's fighting style is actually a mix of techniques he picked up from various sources. (Thus why he uses the word "champuru" or "mix" to describe it.) He's liable to pull out just about any move you can think of. --Piedmon

Thus his use of Shoryuu's technique, Hakkei. Don't worry about complete specifics, it resembles capoeria, so it was described as such. -- Makaio 02:14, 7 March 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Character shots

This article really needs a picture of Heike Shige. If anyone could make it their own personal mission in life to find a picture that wikipedia can use, it would be greatly appreciated by many. -- Makaio

I'll get to capturing a screenshot eventually. It's really not that important, man. --Antrophica 15:12, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

True, but this request serves a purpose. It tells people what is needed, and it gets people looking. -- Makaio 05:41, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

There. You can rest easy now. --Antrophica 06:28, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
Thanks, I was so worried! -- Makaio 23:38, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
Awesome! Been waiting for that. --Piedmon Sama

Next we're going to need portrait shots of the characters from Episode 18, which I would've taken long ago if I had access to the episode. Please, no copyrighted screens. --Antrophica 22:55, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

I could send you the episode, you got a myspace? -- Makaio 01:32, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
Nope. I don't feel like downloading an entire episode for the sake of a few screenshots, anyhow. You ought to do it. You can take a screenshot in WMP by hitting CTRL-I. --Antrophica 06:30, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
Oh, damn, learn something new everyday. -- Makaio 20:14, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
Nice work. --Antrophica 23:31, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mugen's Claymore

Does he really have a claymore during the final episode? I didn't pay attention, but I thought it was just what was left of his sword stuffed into a makeshift scabbard. -- Makaio 05:24, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Definitely a claymore. I got a good look. --Antrophica 13:52, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Regarding Mugen's sword: It's called Typhoon Swell. He does not use a claymore in episode 26. Mugen's Sword in Episode 26 If you mean at the very end of the entire series, yes... he would have to-- his sword was broken, remember? Screenshot of just before the ending credits. Jin also recieved a different Katana, as his was broken as well-- though it's hard to tell the difference, because his katana is hardly as unique as Mugen's Typhoon Swell. Melissia 11:10, 27 April 2006 (UTC)Melissia

Fixed. Haven't played the game; I thought the claymore was supposed to be the Typhoon Swell. --Antrophica 11:12, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mugen' Illiteracy

Did'nt he say, in the episode where he and Jin look at Fuu's diary, say he can't read? The Republican 02:32, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

He's illiterate until he meets Bundai. --Antrophica 11:01, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

It's a very interesting episode. -- Makaio 00:15, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kagemaru truly dead?

I can't tell for certain, but I don't think Kagemaru actually died. It didn't look like he was impaled through any vitals and his comment "I have no regrets." mirrored Jin's comment when he was taken out of the game (and we know Jin survived). I think like Jin and Detective Manzou he was simply incapacitated.--AFink 18:00, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

True. Everyone's apparent deaths in the episode ought to be listed as unclear, given the circumstances surrounding it. --Antrophica 18:57, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Beatles?

Who said Shige's look is a reference to the Beatles? He's done up to look like a Western style rock artist, yes, but the look is hardly specific to the Fab Four.

No idea on that one, either. Unless a credible explanation is given, it'll be taken out. --Antrophica 22:36, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reconciliation?

This part on the description of the Sunflower Samurai seems a bit misleading:

'Kariya Kagetoki arrives just after Fuu’s tearful reconciliation with her father, and kills him right in front of her.'

After watching that particular episode I was under the impression that Fuu and her father never made up in any way, or even received any sort of closure for that matter. In fact Fuu was enraged that she couldn't say everything she wanted to say to him because he was so sick. What do you guys think?

I think there was closure, since Seizou told Fuu that he loved her no matter when she was about to leave and she turned back tearfully and was about to go back to him when Kariya showed up. --Antrophica 13:49, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Size

In case nobody noticed, (I didn't) the size of the article is around 75 kb's... So I think we're going to have to start thinking up some ways to start cutting down the article soon... maybe down to 50 kb or something. -- Makaio 23:33, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Then again... fudge it. -- Makaio 20:21, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fuu's surname?

Is it canon that the surname Fuu goes by is Kasumi, or is that just fanon assumption after we learn her father's full name?


You guys are taking this WAY too seriously. Have you considered that, perhaps, just maybe, every little point of minutiae isn't necessary? I mean, this page will ruin the show for pretty much anyone that might want to watch it. I know, I know, you put the little "spoiler warning" in front of the characters description, but come on. Consider putting a page with some brief info on the characters that DOESN'T tell their "Final Status".

Let the page be, at least part of it, for someone who HASN'T seen the show. Why ruin it for someone who hasn't seen every episode with something as important to the story as whether a character is alive. Go look at the Cowboy Bebop page for an idea of how to do this. It doesn't list spike as dead or alive, but gives some information that doesn't completely spoil the series.

Not everyone is a fanboy.

Twaletta-November 15, 2006

FYI - Her name is Seizou Fuu/Fuu Seizou, depending on how you write it out. Kasumi is the Sunflower Samurai's given name, and Seizou is his last name/surname. DestradoZero 10:26, 7 March 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by DestradoTensai (talk • contribs)

[edit] Missing pics of SC characters

Some mysterious anonymous has removed the pictures of Otawa Hankichi, Aohabu and Inuyama in the character profiles of SC. could anyone please restore these pictures so that the article looks neat ?

Aggravated Anonymous SC fanboy - 23. November 2006.

[edit] NPOV

Seriously. This article needs a minor rewrite to remove the fanboieasque elements that permeate each and every paragraph of this article. There is a gratuitous use of the parenthesis (because some people think it's cool or something), sentences that add some degree of comedic value but are not encyclopedic, and are just worthless as far as wiki's standards go. I edited out what I could, but I'm but a man.

[edit] Fuu's Feelings for Mugen

Okay, I just read the paragraph and that is completely biased and one sided. If anything, the throughout the series, it was hinted she has feelings for Jin, not Mugen. 70.145.110.92 21:43, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Mugen is..."?

Fuu kept saying "Mugen is...", but I don't see anything mentioned here about that nor what it was referring to. --Zeno McDohl (talk) 03:39, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Why was Mugen's character bio erased?

The question speaks for itself. EricSpokane 11:12, 4 October 2007

  • I was just wondering that myself...

I won't write it, because I'm not yet fully through the anime. But I'm curious about why it's gone.

EDIT: I just checked the history. Mugen's bio was being constantly vandalised, for some reason. Then, 70.21.173.11 removed it, and no-one put it back in. - KBKarma. 13:06, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ending

I thought the very final swordfight between jin and mugen, was representative of them accepting each other, because they struck each others blades in a way causing them to break? Makes a lot more sense considering the shows vast symbolism than just "leaving the result inconclusive" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.194.219.186 (talk) 19:44, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Can we get rid of "quotes"?

Either that, or be consistent and put every single thing said by every character in the quotes list. Who decided which 1-3 sentences spoken by each character were worthy enough to put on this page? And why are the quotes in English? Can we fix that, at least, and put the original scripted quotes, in Japanese, in? --69.112.198.78 (talk) 07:32, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Homophobic

I'm getting rid of that paragraph in the character section, it doesn't make any sense. Seriously I'd say that his comment are just an extension of his tendency to make rude comments, not any particular distaste for the people themselves. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.101.160.166 (talk) 11:26, 18 January 2008 (UTC)