Talk:List of Saiyans in Dragon Ball

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[edit] Vegeta Jr.

Does he really need his own entry on the page? He only appears for a few minutes in the last episode of GT, and he doesn't even have a name in the Japanese version. Other Saiyans appeared as briefly as he did in the series, so why don't they get entries too? Takuthehedgehog 18:43, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

This is the same problem I had with the extremely minor hollows (i.e., Hexipodus) in the List of Bleach hollows page. The revealing of a character's name is not a reason to add him or her to the list. If they have enough notable, verifiable content, then add them by all means. Characters whom appeared for such a brief time, however (such as Totapo and Vegeta Jr, as you pointed out), do not need to be listed IMHO. // DecaimientoPoético 18:57, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bardock

I removed the following information; "It has been stated by Vegeta that he was an average fighter but a brilliant scientist and he was the one that created the power to create an artificial moon to cause the Oozara transformation." This was a line used by Vegeta in the early dubs that was never used in the original Japanese manga or anime. Since it's not canon, I don't believe it belongs here. Ark 01:30, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Most of the movies and GT are not 'canon.' Do their mentions not belong? Readding content. // DecaimientoPoético 01:35, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
There's a significant difference. Bardock being a scientist is stated in an inaccurate English translation of the original material. While GT and the movies aren't canon, they are official elements of the DB franchise.72.202.143.28 00:12, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
The fact of the matter is, whether or not material is 'canon' (which is a term I suggest avoiding, by the way, when talking about the Dragon Ball series; it's caused a lot of controversy in the past) doesn't make a difference. Mention it was only stated in the English dub if you desire, but don't remove notable content because "it's not canon." // DecaimientoPoético 00:22, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
I have removed the reference of Bardock's power level as it is an unreliable source. This line was also never uttered in the Dub version of the movie. His power level is based off merely speculation and to be honest that screenshot looks like it has edited text. -Xander756 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Xander756 (talk • contribs) 04:02, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
Incorrect. Watch Bardock: Father of Goku in Japanese w/ English subtitles. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 23:48, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
Agreed. Watch it in Japanese. -- bulletproof 3:16 03:41, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
Where is the YouTube video link? I actually tried looking for it to show Xander756 and could not find it. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 17:08, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
3bulletproof16 has answered my question on my talk. And I have just reverted Xander756 again for removing the bit of info from Burdock[1]. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 02:01, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Agreed. Downloaded the special in Japanese. The mention was there.  UzEE  03:51, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Son Goku

The sentence "the ultimate saiyan hes died a lot but is still awesome" seems a bit off for the wiki, but I can't seem to find it in the edit window. Could somebody make that less...retarded? 129.237.90.48 06:14, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Nevermind, somebody got it. Good work. 129.237.90.48 06:16, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merging

Say, i got an idea, lets all merge the wikipedia articles together into one called " List of Former articles on Wikipedia!" And while we're at it, lets merge the entire internet into one page called: Music, Porn, and useless information @ google ( the site for everything!) (PS , that was sarcasm..) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.160.36.9 (talk) 02:01, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Oooo, look! Our little boy's using the interwebs for the first time! How cute! 129.237.90.48 08:25, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Ooo, look! You figured out how to use colons! Bravo! I couldn't be more proud! I'm gonna watch you bleed!!

[edit] Broly

Rather than Broccoli, the pun seems to lean towards "umbrella"; where a slang term for umbrella is actually "brolly". I changed it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.237.103.13 (talk) 04:14, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Guys, shouldn't Broly get his own article....? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Xxdanxxnyxx (talk • contribs) 15:33, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

no one mentions that the trama of brolis childhood was goku's insesant crying and when i put it in i was accused of vandalism. huh? Largoss (talk) 23:15, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Broly should get his own article! Prince Of All Saiyans (talk) 15:16, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Gotenks

"It is unclear why, but Gotenks is seen to be cocky and arrogant, as well as having the ability to be easily distracted." This is hopelessly wrong. It IS clear why: the fusion dance merges personalities as well as power. The cockiness comes from Trunks personality, and the inattentiveness comes from Goten's personality. It seems like the people writing these notes haven't seen any of the shows. I'm changing it because there is no reason that this crap should stay up fooling people into believing the wrong thing. Also, Gotenks was seen in the Dragonball Z Movie Wrath of the Dragon, where he attack Herudigarn (I probably spelled that wrong) and was knocked out of his fused state less than five minutes later.> —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.237.103.13 (talk) 10:36, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

There is no official statement on them having an actual relationship other than looking similiarly. Thus, anything else would be pure speculation. The S (talk) 04:09, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Well, Besides the french dub... but that is not believed anyways, so yeah.

~~Weedle_McHairybug~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.32.151.230 (talk) 16:05, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

I read somewhere that Akira Toriyama himself had said that Turles was basically supposed to be a "If Goku hadn't become a good guy"-character, hence is similar appearance. Takeshi357 (talk) 20:10, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Alphabetical order?

Shouldn't King Vegeta be sorted by the letter 'V' instead of the letter 'K'? The same thing with Son Goku, Future Gohan, Future Trunks, Son Gohan, Son Goku Jr., and Son Goten. --Ice Vision (talk) 03:20, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I would think so. Would anybody disagree? --Xander756 (talk) 19:36, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
Doesn't matter to me so long as you, Xander, refrain from removing the reference in Burdock. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 22:04, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
What's that have to do with Alphabetizing the article? I stood corrected on that issue, I don't see why it has to be brought up again. --Xander756 (talk) 23:14, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
I only brought it up because I was unsure of your intentions. You never responded back 'til now. Anyway, I'm content with the current layout. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 07:43, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Umm... exactly HOW was Broly screaming for Kakarot's help?

Ok, at least twice in Broly's part of the article says that he screams for Kakarot's help (both of which are in relation of Broly: Second coming), and I was wondering, Exactly how was he screaming for help from Kakarot/Goku? I mean, yes, he was in a very dire predicament when he yelled "Kakarot!", but that doesn't mean that he was screaming for help from him. I mean, he most likely was more shouting his name out of anger for being defeated by him.

can someone tell me If i was missing something, or should this be edited?

~~Weedle_McHairybug~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.245.115.214 (talk) 00:48, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Broly was not screaming out for his help, he was angry for goku getting ready to defeat him so he screamed out his name, god broly is f-cking evil, why the hell would he ask for help from someone he hated? Prince Of All Saiyans (talk) 14:58, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

I know he wasn't. I only asked this because someone previously edited it to say that he was screaming for Goku's help.

~~Weedle_McHairybug~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.32.185.55 (talk) 19:26, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] What the Hell

This is inacurate information, Goku jr. calls pan his grandma countless times in the movie A heroes legacy. Specificly after she has a heart attack and lands herself in the hospitol.

THIS IS WHAT THE ARTICLE FOR GOKU JR. SAYS

Son Goku Jr. in the Dragon Ball GT Perfect Files is simply labeled as a descendent of Son Goku, Son Gohan and Pan, however he is not officially confirmed to be Pan's grandson. Prince Of All Saiyans (talk) 12:35, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] onio

I think this article should be deleted, it has nothing to do with dragon ball z, he is not a dragon ball z character. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Prince Of All Saiyans (talk • contribs) 15:23, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Pictures

Last time I saw this article, their were pics of almost all the Saiyans (full-blooded or not).

who removed them all?? and why? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Misterian (talk • contribs) 15:51, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Read WP:NFCC and WP:FUI#Policy. There was a gallery of copyrighted images on the list and these should be typically avoided (groupal pictures are preferred, however). See also WP:COPYRIGHT. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 06:05, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
And I took off the Gogeta image to prevent another spawn of galleries. Why not do what List of extraterrestrials in Dragon Ball is doing? They're combining pics into a single frame. Thoughts? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 22:26, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Zorn

In episode 78 of DBZ, there is a Saiyan in Frieza's flashback that is standing next to King Vegeta. The King calls him Zorn. Shouldn't we add a section for him in this article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.244.125.218 (talk) 21:20, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

No way. Too minour a character (and probably a bad dub), see WP:NN. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 21:49, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Please Reconsider. If you dont beleive me, go to this page and read more on him: http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Zorn. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.244.125.218 (talk) 19:21, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Badly fails WP:NOTE. Also any Dragon Ball-related character can have a page on Dragon Ball wiki. The English Wikipedia has set rules though, which are for organization. The Dragon Ball wiki is more of a "fan encyclopedia" when compared to this site. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 19:28, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Watch this video and maybe you'll have second thoughts. http://dbze64.blogspot.com/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.244.125.218 (talk) 02:37, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Permisson to put pics

i'm asking for permisson to put images on brolly,seripa,bardock,gogeta and veku.Please... —Preceding unsigned comment added by MightySaiyan (talk • contribs) 12:57, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Have you read this? We need to have grouped images (like the ones at List of extraterrestrials in Dragon Ball). Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 21:51, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Missing entries

Could we add Shugesh and Borgos, the other two members of Bardock's team. Also, what about the Saiyans that Chaozu, Tenshinhan, Kuririn, and Yamucha fought in the Pendulim Room in episode 17? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.66.29.75 (talk) 16:49, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Not notable enough, see this discussion. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 21:10, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Raditz

About the edit Sesshomaru reverted; I believe it could be verified. Within Daizenshuu EX there is an anime filler guide with full episode summeries alongside panels from the manga. It can be used to verify the reverted statements. Is it worth including? Personally, I think it would be an improvement. --- Krezos Farland (talk) 19:19, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes. Go ahead and WP:REF the link. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 22:29, 25 April 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Causing trouble in Hell?

"After death, he is mentioned to still be causing trouble in Hell." I've seen a lot of DBZ and i've never heard of Brolly mentioned to cause trouble in Hell. Could someone tell me? --- MightySaiyan (talk)

Never heard that either. After he *finally* dies in Movie 11, he's gone for good... --- Krezos Farland (talk) 21:19, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
From the ending of Bio-Broly:

"::Goku: (after gulping down some pasta) WHAT?! Now Broly's acting up in Hell and King Kai is sending me and Pikkon down there to stop him?!)

Bubbles: (Nods her head)
Goku: (stands up) All right, I'm on my way, Broly!"
P.S. Technically, since this was only an imperfect clone of Broly, Broly finally died in Movie 10. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.32.223.196 (talk) 21:45, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
Weedle_McHairybug —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.32.223.196 (talk) 17:12, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Future Gohan

I removed the information on Future Gohan after I discovered it was copied and pasted from the main article on Son Gohan, which is linked to from this page. Just trying to explain my rationale in more detail than I did in the edit summary. I hope I did the right thing. --- Krezos Farland (talk) 21:22, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Unprotection

All of the other lists of characters are free to edit, so why is this one blocked?! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.244.125.218 (talk) 21:08, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Because of recent vandalism caused by your fellow anonymous users. You can tell me what specific edit you want inserted. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 21:11, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Totepo and Panbukin

Why aren't Totepo and Panbukin listed here? They should be like Seripa and Toma as well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.244.125.218 (talk) 23:54, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Voice Actors

Voice actors that should be noted that Chris Sabat voiced both Nappa and Raditz in the original FUNimation dub. Also, Colin Murdock voiced King Vegeta in the Ocean Group / Blue Water Dub. Someone should add them. I'd do it myself, but I'm an anomynous user. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.244.125.218 (talk) 00:18, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Deletion Consensus

Those that must remain removed from the page (in order to avoid heavy favoritism) based on the consensus set forth by TTN, 3bulletproof16, Sesshomaru, and Sephiroth on the extraterrestrials talk page, which I have noted, are as follows:

  • brocco - appears in 1 filler episode in one segment.
  • broli - appears in 3 non-manga movies. Highly inconsequential movie villain.
  • burdock - appears in only 1 small strip and 1 movie. extremely inconsequential.
  • onio - does not even appear in dbz, only in neko majin, shouldn't even be listed.
  • panbukin - appears in 1 movie, and only two scenes of that movie.
  • paragus - appears in half of 1 movie.
  • pumpkin - appears in 1 filler episode, and only one segment.
  • seripa - appears in two scenes of 1 movie. EXTREMELY inconsequential.
  • toma - appears in two scenes of 1 movie. TREMENDOUSLY inconsequential.
  • totepo - appears in only 1 movie and only two scenes of that movie.
  • tullece - appears in only 1 movie.
  • king vegeta - appears in 4 scenes throughout the ENTIRE series run.
  • zorn - appears in 1 filler scene of 1 episode. EXTREMELY inconsequential.
  • bra - appears in GT briefly for a few scenes here and there.
  • future gohan - appears only in a percentage of 1 movie.
  • son goku jr. - appears in one movie.
  • vegeta jr. - appears in one scene of one episode. EXTREMELY, HEAVILY inconsequential.
  • gogeta - appears in one fight segment of 1 movie.
  • veku - appears in 1 scene of 1 movie.

If there are others that need to be removed, please feel free to note them here. 72.229.48.178 (talk) 16:41, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

I thought I mentioned prior that there would be a heavy amount of favoritism when it came to the likes of Bardock. The fact that he only appears in one movie is important. I believe he should be removed in order to follow the same consensus...I believe his inclusion is seriously debatable. The same goes for Broly. I think he is also a limited character. His appearance in only 3 movies should be noted. Any thoughts...? 72.229.48.178 (talk) 14:03, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

That sounds like a good idea, if we want to name the page something like List of Important Saiyans in Dragon Ball, excluding those who only made one or two appearances and vanished from the face of the Earth. Come on, for god's sake. Get a grip. Jienum (talk) 17:27, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Why, the same rule was applied to Bojack, etc. What makes Broly any more important than the rest of those one-shot villains...? And as for Bardock, the only thing that makes him noteworthy is the fact that he's Goku's father. Is it enough though to note him, considering the fact that his only appearance is in the bardock special...? I don't know. I'm finding the maintenance of Broly and Bardock to be a major facet of favoritism. I thought I should voice myself when it came to that issue. At least the page was trimmed from single scene characters and even lesser people who appeared in like 1 episode. Even if Broly and Bardock are kept, they need to be trimmed. Broly especially, there's way too much gibberish that has been included in his profile. Lots of repetitive things, fancruft, and non-notable occurences, just to name a few things. 72.229.48.178 (talk) 03:04, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
If we were going to remove the ones listed above, then the only ones left would be... Umm... not counting Goku, Gohan, Goten, Trunks (Both versions), or Vegeta since they have their own articles (Which even THEN, Gohan and Vegeta only appeared for half of the series, if not less, Future Trunks appeared for a third of the series, and Goten and Kid Trunks only appeared for a fourth of the series, which means that the only Saiyan deserving to be on Wikipedia would be Goku.), only TWO saiyans would be on there. That is, Raditz and Nappa (which they only appeared for a quarter of a saga (an eighth if you consider the Saiyan Saga to actually be a part of the Frieza Saga.) which means that even THEY don't warrant an article, which means the list of Saiyans in Dragon Ball won't exist either.). I mean, I can understand Onio, but the rest should stay where they are. And since WHEN has canonicity been an issue. and anyways, It will be impossible to completely remove favoritism from Wikipedia. and if you want to remove character so you can avoid favoritism, then we must eliminate ALL the Dragon Ball characters from Wikipedia, heck, we might also have to remove EVERY SINGLE little article from Wikipedia as well, thus in effect erasing the site. ~~Weedle_McHairybug~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.32.186.225 (talk) 23:48, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
Basically, only the NOTABLE saiyans should stay. For instance, Veku shouldn't have his own section; rather, he should be mentioned in the Gogeta part. Gogeta should stay, because he destroyed Janemba, and he went up against Omega Shenron in GT. Onio, I don't know. But the ones like Broly and Bardock should stay, because they are related to Goku (well, Broly only causes Goku trouble, and that's the only relation). The two saiyans from the Pendulum Room, I doubt. But, obviously, the ones like Goku, Vegeta, Nappa, Raditz, Gohan, Goten, Trunks (both), Pan, Gotenks, Vegito and Gogeta should stay, because they are notable characters. Jienum (talk) 11:46, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
Why is Gogeta notable? The fact that he destroyed Janemba is irrelevant since Janemba has been removed altogether. The same goes for the fusion in GT, it only appears in one episode. If we look at it like that, then all characters who appear in one episode must be added. Otherwise, both Gogeta and Bardock don't warrant a keep. Broly appears in 3 movies, so he should at least be trimmed. But the rest of them are all one-shot characters. 72.229.48.178 (talk) 14:51, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
Well, if they shouldn't have their own section, they should at least be mentioned, not treated as if they don't exist at all. For instance, Gogeta should be mentioned in Vegetto's section as Vegetto's Fusion Dance counterpart. Bardock's crew should be named in Bardock's section, as another example. Paragus should be mentioned as Broly's father in Broly's section. Wouldn't that be better? Jienum (talk) 15:39, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
I don't agree with this. This is treat the characters like they never existed, and being canon or not really matters? Bra/Bulla didn't appear only in a couple of scenes in GT, she was also in Dragon Ball Z, and the original manga as well (since canon seems to be so important here). Muchi (talk) 21:31, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
I agree with Jienum for the most part. All those secondary and tertiary characters can be mentioned in Bardock's profile. And it is irrelevant whether they appears canonically or not. What is relevant is the amount of their actual appearance. Were they in only one chapter? Were they important enough to be mentioned? What role did they play? These are all factors that go into play when looking at notability. Jienum has mentioned quite thoroughly the best basis to follow when it comes to mentioning these tertiary people, far from secondary. Bardock himself is actually a tertiary character, making his allies quatrary characters, if anything. Bra/Bulla is neither important nor noteworthy. She only appears in about three chapters, and just by appearing doesn't warrant a level of importance. She just stands there and does nothing. The same way throughout all of GT. Some people are just there for the heck of being there and do absolutely nothing. It would be fancruft to mention people just because they "appear". Jienum is definitely on the mark when it comes to following consensus. I agree with him fully, except I still think that Broly's current profile is in heavy need of trimming. 72.229.48.178 (talk) 03:47, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Just a side note, we don't use canon anymore. Any DB related article should stray as far from any mention of canon or non-canon as possible.--Koji†Dude (C) 03:49, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes, we know. That's why the DBZ Movie pages, which are far from canonical, have their own pages. Jienum (talk) 11:55, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
I can see that Broly's profile was partially trimmed. I still think it's too long, but it can be improved. The rest of the page seems on the mark and well organized the way it is. The only other thing is that the page should be categorized in alphabetical order, hence following the same structure of the extraterrestrials page, that way all the pages are organized in the same proper manner instead of having "full-blooded" and "partial". 72.229.48.178 (talk) 20:13, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
I think this is kind of stupid remocing characters because of their time in reference to the rest of the series. Goku Jr., for example had an entire movie(technically a tv special) devoted to his developement. Brolly was in 3 movies (I think) I think he should at least be mentioned. King Vegeta was the king of the Saiyans, not including him on the Saiyans page seems a little stupid. Gogeta isn't in just one movie, he is in GT as well, not to mention the strongest character shown in the series, and plays an integral part in Omega Shenron's (the last major villain in the series) downfall; so as far as that goes at least get your facts straight. As far as future Gohan goes, I don't see why he was mentioned separately, he is technically no a different character from Gohan, they should share the same article. As far as Tullece goes, I don't recall the series EVER saying that he was a Saiyan, sure it seems like it but it's never actually said. Cutting the list down this much, it may as well be integrated into the list of major characters from the series. It's also treating certain characters as if they don't exist; which kind of defeats the point of page like this (which is simply meant to mention characters, and not to provide a biography). The way the list remains it's not only incomplete, but superfluous.Adroa (talk) 21:08, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
Whether the page is incomplete or superfluous isn't a folly as large as having it cluttered with the amount of fancruft that was evident prior. The page is currently at a better setup than ever before, and this has become possible because of limiting the amount of gibberish added to it, such as Tullece, Bardock's crew, and many others who aren't worth mentioning in separate and in particular. They can all be mentioned in other characters' profiles, as stated prior, which has shown well for Gogeta, who was mentioned in Vegetto's profile very nicely. This saves space and helps maintain a better, fundamentally encyclopedic resource. 72.229.48.178 (talk) 23:58, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Not really. I agree characters like Bardock's crew and Tullece (actually I don't think it was ever factually stated that he was a Saiyan, though that is what it seemed like) don't need to have a mention, however removing notable characters is an oversight. The fact is the dragonball series has a lot of information, that doesn't mean more of it should be removed. For example Gogeta and Vegit never even met, and weren't even in the same series. As a matter of fact Gogeta had more air time the Vegito did. Little bits of information like "Goku Jr. actually has blue eyes" is fan cruft, but the character himself is not.Adroa (talk) 20:04, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Let me just re-iterate (because I know I've said this somewhere before) that the character list was trimmed to get it below the 35-kilobyte range that oh-so-often slows people's browsers. Certain people's sections were deleted for various reasons, but the main reason for most of it was that certain people had no over all effect on the plot. It has nothing to do with air time, and nothing to do with how much you can write about someone. Personally, I wouldn't refuse a request to put Gogeta's section back in, but the others are best left un-metnioned.--Koji†Dude (C) 21:09, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

When the Hell did I agree to this? --UnquestionableTruth-- 06:13, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Turles

What the hell happened to his entry? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.112.229.117 (talk) 05:48, 12 June 2008 (UTC)