Talk:List of Quebec national parks

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Contents

[edit] Official names

The names of the parks and wildlife reserves are taken from the Société des établissements de plein air du Québec (SEPAQ), the corporation responsible for their management. As we can see on the English version of their Website, the official names remain the same in English or French:

-- Mathieugp 19:52, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Designation as national parks

The term "National" in some of the parks names is confusing. Official "National Parks" are the one administered by Parks Canada, under the authority of the National Parks Act (Canada). The SEPAQ designation as "national" probably refers to the World Conservation Union category II. A clarification in the lead paragraph would be necessary. National parks of Quebec sounds as if QC is a standalone country (it isn't yet), maybe National parks" in Quebec would sound better. My 2¢ --Qyd 02:17, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

  • Restored original intro that explains it all much better. --P199 02:43, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
That info got removed again. It really should be there, because otherwise it is quite confusing why they are called "national" parks. Qutezuce 08:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
  • The use of "national" and "Canadian" by the Federal Government of Canada, instead of "federal", could also be seen as confusing since (1) the Canadian federation has a distinctly binational (or multinational) character and (2) all things "Canadian" are not federal. But here is not the time or place for such discussions. Since there exists a separate "List of Canadian national parks", the three "national parks of Canada" in the the list of "Quebec national parks" could be removed. But their inclusion in this list nevertheless seems to provide added value for anyone (misguided or otherwise) looking for the federal national parks in Quebec. The explication is concise and avoids controversy. The reasons behind the various uses of "national" and "nation" by the governments of Canada and Quebec and, of course, by many First Nations, need not be broached here. --Joseph B 02:56, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Before you renamed this page, it was called "List of Quebec parks" and followed the format of List of Ontario parks by including all national and provincial parks. By your unilateral renaming, you created the confusion. In fact, I propose to restore the original page name: List of Quebec parks. Or if you only want to list parks managed by Sépaq, then the page should be List of Quebec provincial parks to follow the format for some of the other Canadian provinces. --P199 12:59, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
  • As for the suggestion by Qyd: Both Canadian (federal) and Quebec legislation make use of "national park"; the Quebec law makes no reference to IUCN categories. --Joseph B 02:56, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
Thats all well and good, but it's probably not confusing to most people that the Canadian federal government refers to things it administers as "national" or "Canadian". Whereas it probably is confusing to many people that a province of Canada refers to things it administers as national. Isn't there a way that we can clear up confusion without stepping on anyones toes? I thought that the longer version before Joseph B's edits did that, but I'm no expert on the subject. Qutezuce 07:45, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
  • I agree that JosephB's edits to make it concise, made it far too concise. In order for international readers to understand it (WP is global!), an explanation is necessary here. Since the original explanation is factually correct (therefore NPOV) and on the basis of the stated support above, I will therefore restore the original intro once again. --P199 12:59, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
  • A slighly longer introduction inserted, should respond to P199 worries. A discussion of why the governments of Canada and Quebec both use the word "national", and which was first to use such a label, is not relevant here (and subjective). On other pages describing the various "national" institutions and properties of these governments, no comments are included. In any case, such labels are not all that important. Gatineau Park and the Saguenay - St. Lawrence Marine Park are not labeled "national". --Joseph B 17:08, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Intro disputed by JosephB:
"This is the list of federal and provincial parks and reserves in Quebec, Canada. FACT: Note that both federally and provincially administered parks in Quebec are labelled "parc national" (National Park) . FACT: Quebec is the only province to call its provincial parks "national parks," stemming from a political decision to apply the term to the Quebec "nation", as distinguished from the rest of the country in culture, language, and law. (FACT: The provincial assembly is called the "National Assembly," for example.) FACT: This leads to confusion as to which Quebec parks are provincial, and which are national (federal). FACT: The federal government, in response, decided to add the words "of Canada" to the official names of its properties. Outside of official publications, however, the term is never used."
This intro is factual as indicated and is therefore not subjective. This additional info is very much a worthwhile and necessary explanation. --P199 17:15, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Perhaps this list should be limited to national parks managed by the Government of Quebec, since there is already a list of national parks managed by the Government of Canada. As to what constitutes a FACT: What was the nature of the political decisions of the governments of Quebec and Canada? Each has chosen the word "national", each made a choice. Please cite sources. See Nation. But, in any case, the answer is not appropriate on this page (it's just a list!). --Joseph B 11:45, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
You can play all the semantic games you want, but that doesn't change the fact that the majority of people associate "national" with a country and not subdivisions of a country. Qutezuce 23:25, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
There are a few facts that are difficult to go around: 1) The natural parks created and administered by Quebec, a province of Canada since 1867, were and still are officially named Parcs nationaux du Québec. 2) The correct way to translate this to English is National parks of Quebec or Quebec national parks. 3) The fact that Quebec considers itself a nation with Canada (another nation) is officially denied, laughed at and scorned by the federal government of Canada since Pearson was replaced by Trudeau. 4) Wikipedia, which has an official policy of neutral point of view will not take side on this matter. 5) It will respect its own Wikipedia:Naming conventions and not fabricate new rules. -- Mathieugp 19:40, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
Most people who speak English probably associate "national" with a "nation". It is well-known I believe that not all nations have the luxury of having their own fully independent state. Nobody would argue that Scotland is a nation, yet Scotland is a "subdivision" of the United Kingdom. The same goes for Quebec with regards to federal Canada. People who associate "national" with "independent country" alone are free to learn that the world is not that simple by reading more Wikipedia articles whenever they please. -- Mathieugp 19:40, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
Most people associate "national" with "nation" goes without saying, obviously I was saying that most people associate "nation" (or "national") with "country". Don't use the argument that "people who don't know 'x' are ignorant and should learn" and then not explain 'x' to these people. Then you are just as guilty for these people's ignorance as they are. If you think people should known something, then explain it to them in the relevant places. Qutezuce 06:36, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

I was confused by the "national" designation as, (at the time when I read the article), there was no explanation whatsoever of the terms used. The note in the introductory paragraph does the job, it makes things clear. Quote: Note that both federally and provincially administered parks in Quebec are labelled "parc national" (national park). Federal national parks are distinguished by the addition of "of Canada" in their official name. I'm satisfied with this addition. The dispute regarding how Quebec chooses to use the term has no place here, my only complaint was about the clarity of the article. --Qyd 22:08, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, exactly, my only goal is the clarity of the article, but it seems to have tinged some deeper rooted feelings.
Actually they are not labelled "parc national" for distinction, but because of the Commission de toponymie forbid the traduction of generic of the name of the place (river, park, street, etc.) for governement publication (with exception of the border bilingual name like Ottawa River).Usage on wikipedia seem to favor the traduction of the generic. The Park Act labelled the park simply as "National park". --Fralambert 17:53, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Accents

What is the standard for the accented text in Wikipedia (English)? On this page, I have seen place names written with the accents ("Sept-Îles", "Gaspésie"), where other place names are not accented ("Pointe-au-Pere", "Perce"). I'll correct the city names at least and add the missing accents. Hugo Dufort 01:40, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Quebec Regional Parks

There is also a network of regional parks in Quebec; they usually combine outdoor activities with natural settings. They are usually managed by the MRC (equivalent of a county). Maybe it would be nice to create a new topic on the subject (although I don't have time right now). I'll give you just a few links.
Chutes Monte-à-Peine: http://www.parcdeschutes.com/
Hautes-Gorges de la rivière Malbaie: http://www.quebecweb.com/tourisme/charlevoix/parcs/htegorgang.html
Mont Grand-Fonds: http://www.montgrandfonds.com/
Lac Taurau: http://www.lanaudiere.ca/fr/index.jsp?numPage=373&numFiche=545
Forêt Ouareau: http://www.lanaudiere.ca/fr/index.jsp?numPage=373&numFiche=544
Sept-Chutes: http://www.lanaudiere.ca/fr/index.jsp?numPage=373&numFiche=410
Chutes Dorwin: http://www.lanaudiere.ca/fr/index.jsp?numPage=364&numFiche=276
Chutes à Bull: http://www.lanaudiere.ca/fr/index.jsp?numPage=364&numFiche=275
There are dozens of other regional parks that could be covered in that topic.