Talk:List of Old Newingtonians

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Contents

[edit] Repetition and Verifiability of page

I acknowledge the tiring work of contributors to this page. I wonder, however, about the repetition of names in both professional and alphabetical headings. This should come up in a policy discussion somewhere like Wikipedia:List guideline or WP:SCH. I point also specifically to Wikipedia:Lists#References_for_list_Items, which quotes WP:V as saying

"articles should contain only material that has been published by reputable sources. Editors should therefore provide references." The responsibility for providing a citation rests "with the editors who have made an edit or wish an edit to remain." Inclusion on the list should be based on what reliable sources say, not on what the editor interprets the source to be saying.

Cheers, Jpe|ob 14:15, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Deletion of Old Newingtonians

Recently a large number articles on Old Newingtonians have been at risk of deletion from Wikipedia or have had their links as Old Newingtonians removed. They include:

   * HRH Prince Tu'ipelehake Fatafehi - Former Prime Minister of Tonga, brother of a King of Tonga and son of a Queen of Tonga
   * Frank Howarth - Geologist, Director Australian Museum and former Director Royal Botanic Gardens, Sydney
   * Hon Leycester Meares AC CMG QC - Former NSW Supreme Court Judge, Chairman NSW Law Reform Commission, Benefactor and Chairman of Kidsafe
   * Prof Nicholas Saunders - Vice Chancellor University of Newcastle and former Dean of Medicine Monash University and Flinders University
   * Jonathan Bonnitcha - Sportsman and 2006 Rhodes Scholar
   * Judge Herbert Curlewis - Former NSW District Court Judge and husband of Ethel Turner (Author of Seven Little Australian
   * Hon Justice Roger Gyles AO - Federal Court Judge, Royal Commissioner Building Industry in New South Wales and former President NSW Bar Association and Australian Bar Association
   * Clive Ramaciotti - Philanthropist whose foundation has donated $50 million to biomedical research
   * Simon Fieldhouse - Artist and book illustrator
   * Frank Hinder AM - Artist renowned as a major force in Australian modernism
   * Alex Popov - RAIA Wilkinson Award and Robin Boyd Award winning Architect
   * Graham Davis - Walkley and Logie Award winning Investigative Journalist for BBC, ABC and Nine Network's Sunday
   * Christopher Lee - AFI Award and AWGIE Award winning Screenwriter of Secret Life of Us
   * Dr John Burton AM - Former Head Department of External Affairs, High Commissioner and Founder Centre for the Analysis of Conflict.

Do any of these people really look as if they lack notability? All of these calls for deletion have come from ExtraDry but none have been supported by the majority of other editors. ExtraDry has also launched a checkuser campaign against anyone who has edited the Newington page in the last month but this has not been supported by the appropriate administrators. In the same period the following Old Newingtonians have been deleted without discussion by other editors:

   * Prof William Doe - Former Dean of Medicine University of Birmingham and Professor of Medicine at ANU and Sydney
   * Rogey Foley (aka Ellis D Fogg) - Considered by the National Film & Sound Archive (ScreenSound Australia) to be Australia's most innovative lighting designer and lumino kinetic sculptor
   * Darren Yap - Theatre Director, Actor and Associate Director Sydney 2000 Olympic Ceremonies

What is going on and how can this be sorted out. Tallum 05:42, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Copyright

The list of notable Old Newingtonians on Wikipedia was largely the work of a since banned editor. At some time after the article was expanded to its current size Newington College copied all the names and the formatting and placed it on the College website. If there is acopyright infringement involved it has been by Newington College not Wikipedia. Editors continue to add to this list and if you watch it carefully I suspect you will find that Newington will add those additions to the College list. For this reason I have removed the copyright tag. Mitchplusone 05:16, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

You need to prove this, All it is at the moment is hearsay. ExtraDry 07:35, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
Why dont you get them to put on that page. "Taken from wikipedia" ExtraDry 07:40, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
I have no control over the web content of Newington College. Mitchplusone 08:03, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
That does not mean you cant ask. ExtraDry 08:53, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't doubt that Newington College copied this page, I think its quite obvious, but I think the real issue here is that there are no references to prove that any of these people actually attended Newington. I had tagged this page with an unreferenced template which someone decided to take down, and some how from there we've ended up with a copy paste issue. So yeah in my opinion its not a copy paste issue but a reference one. Loopla 09:18, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

The references are more than clear now. The register of Old Newingtonians Names yes there are many... has been added to the page and many of the names have wikipedia articles which have external links to ADB and the like so if you don't have a problem with those or the copyright issue then I will take the copyright tag away. Castlemate 06:18, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
You need to show what names come from what refences. ExtraDry 11:20, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
I agree with ExtraDry on this one. To quote WikiProject Schools "All alumni information must be referenced" and "Individual alumni need a citation a) to verify that they did indeed attend the school and b) to verify the statement of their notability in their short one or two line description", however "If an alumnus has their own article in mainspace, then it is not necessary for their notability to be referenced, as long as it is done on their actual page". It's a bit of a cop out to just stick a reference at the bottom and say that everyone on the list is in the book. My understanding is that alumni lists should be referenced like in List of notable former students of PLC Melbourne and List of notable former students of PLC Sydney. Loopla 11:55, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

What about the copyright issue? Shouldn't that tag be taken away and then the college website is the reference? If someone has the time then they might like to put page references for each person from the college register. Castlemate 04:41, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

References have been substantially improved and there seems to be general agreement that this isn't a copyright infringement so I will take off the copy paste tag.Tallum 11:06, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Headmasters

The current Headmaster of The Scots College is an Old Newingtonian and has been added to the list of notable old boys. No Wikipedia article exists for Dr Lambert at this time but he is listed as Principal on the Wikipedia article on Scots and a reference has been supplied. Most school articles have a list of former Heads suggesting that they are of interest even if they aren't notable enough to have a Wikipedia article in their own right. At the present time the notable Sydney notable old boys lists have a number of Headmasters listed and some have linked articles - Newington 3, Grammar 2, Knox 2, St Aloysius 1 and Riverview 1 Headmaster and 1 Deputy Headmaster. This is hardly a major issue but it does need to be discussed as it has become almost impossible to add anything to the Newington article without a major battle ensuing. Tallum 14:51, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

At the risk of labouring the point the Melbourne schools list the following number of headmasters on the Notable Old Boy lists - Melbourne Grammar 1, Wesley 1, Geelong College 1, Scotch 2 and Trinity 4.Tallum 15:23, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
I strongly disagree with the statement that headmasters like this are inherently notable because of their position. If the position is important enough, then reliable sources will give coverage to the person(s) occupying it. Notability should depend on sources giving significant coverage to this person, not the position. ExtraDry 15:27, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
I tend to think that principals of highly regarded and/or long established schools such as The Scots College are notable. Most schools of this type have had only a small number of principals in their history, and these positions are obviously very difficult to obtain. However, if the person in question was principal at the local primary school I would think differently. Loopla 02:15, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
Notability should depend on sources giving significant coverage to this person, not the position. ExtraDry 06:23, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
I think we're looking a little too far into this one. It's just an addition to a list of notable alumni, not a new article written about this person. I personally feel that headmasters of notable schools are worthy of inclusion in such lists as I find it of interest. There are a lot of educators in Australia, but only a very small number make it to the top position in elite schools.Loopla 13:43, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Please note Tallum has been blocked as a sockpuppet. ExtraDry 08:06, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't see the problem with including these headmasters in this particular list so long as they have suitable references. Ian Lambert in particular appears to be particularly noteworthy. I don't understand why the headmasters in particular should be targetted in such a way, especially when the current standards for inclusion do not appear to be particularly high (large numbers of red-linked people without references). Dahliarose 17:11, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Image copyright problem with Image:Australian Broadcasting Corporation.svg

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