Talk:List of Northern Irish people

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WikiProject Northern Ireland tasks: Here are some open WikiProject Northern Ireland tasks: Places: Mussenden Temple and Downhill Demesne, Devenish Island Monastic Site, Killyclogher, Derryvore Landmarks: The Skerries (Northern Ireland), Black Pig's Dyke, Helen's Tower Parks and gardens: Events: Ulster Cup, Ulster hockey People: Alison Campbell, Paul Charles (novelist), Paula Clamp, Max Clendinning, Colin Cooper (academic), Newton Emerson, Lucy Evangelista, Robert Hall (doctor), Shauna Gunn, Sophie Hoopman, H Douglas Keith, Charles Michael Lavery QC, Henry Lavery, Francis Maginn, Jim Malley, Catherine Jean Milligan, Phillip McCallen, Robert MacDonnell, Joseph Tomelty, Gayle Williamson, Zane Radcliffe, Professor Richard Rose, Brian Baird (newsreader) Newspapers/Magazines: Fortnight Magazine 'Schools/Colleges: Glenola Collegiate School, Our Lady and St Patrick's College, Belfast Boy's Model School, St. Columbanus' College, Streets: Rivers: River Bush, River Mourne, River Moyola, River Roe Organisations: Industrial Development Board, Forest Service Northern Ireland, Rivers Agency Northern Ireland, Invest NI, Roads Service Northern Ireland, Child Support Agency (NI), Boundary Commission for Northern Ireland, District Policing Partnerships, Compensation Agency, Office of the Oversight Commissioner, Electoral Office for Northern Ireland, Northern Ireland Housing Executive, Central Services Agency, Northern Ireland Blood Transfusion Service, Census Office in Northern Ireland, Northern Ireland Statistics and Research Agency, Cameron Commission, Hunt Committee, Stanley Leisure, Ormo, Sunblest (currently re-directs) History: Rose Report, History of Armagh, History of Newry, History of Lisburn Buildings: Belvoir Park Hospital, Guildhall, Derry Major topics: Geography of Northern Ireland, Geology of Northern Ireland, Integrated Education Edit or discuss this list.

Contents 1 Removal of notable people 2 "Northern Irish"? 3 City people originate from 4 Science 5 List of Britons template

[edit] Removal of notable people

User:Pauliomcbride has removed two notable people from this list with no explaination. The text of the article specifically states "famous and historical people who are descended from Ulster people and Scots-Irish". I am going to add the names again. Thanks also to Paulio, for the addition of the other notable people to the list. --Mal 15:50, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Northern Irish"?

Does anybody have evidence for- to take a few examples- the following Irish-born people in this list describing themselves as "Northern Irish"? If there is no evidence I will remove them and place them in a 'List of Irish people'. Here goes: Seamus Heaney, W.B. Yeats, Bronagh Gallagher, Eoin McNamee, Brian Kennedy, Tommy Makem, Dennis Taylor, Stephen Rea, Gerry Adams, Martin McGuinness, Mary McAleese.... I wont even get into the existence of one Saint Patrick in this list of Northern Irish people. El Gringo 10:09, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Read the introduction. It states:

List of Northern Irish people is a list of notable people from Northern Ireland.

It also covers:

• people of Northern Irish descent
• people born in Northern Ireland who have since become nationals of other countries
• people born outside Northern Ireland who settled there
• famous and historical people who are descended from Ulster people and Scots-Irish and whose ancestors come from the region that is now Northern Ireland before 1922

I don't think I added Patrick, but he was enslaved in Antrim (which is in modern Northern Ireland) and worked in the area for most of his life. He is also buried what is now Northern Ireland.

The others in the list (though I have not scrutinised all of them) are presumably people who either currently live in Northern Ireland (and are thus Northern Irish), are of Northern Irish descent, were born there and have since moved, were born outside of NI and settled there or who are descended from ancestors who originate in the region that is now called Northern Ireland.

There is no need to elaborate on the political ideology of nationalists, as that is covered more fully in other articles. This is simply a list of people with some connection to Northern Ireland.

Enough with the POV-pushing please. --Mal 15:28, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

OK, so by the mentality at work in this list Yasser Arafat is an Israeli? "Northern Irish" is a unionist identity in its entirety. Don't bother insulting us by dressing it up. Again, show us where Seamus Heaney, W.B. Yeats, Brian Kennedy and all the rest have defined themselves as "Northern Irish". Like the rest of the population of the island, I have only heard them describe themselves as 'Irish'. This clearly does not suit your loyalist political agenda, but that's how it is. El Gringo 19:46, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Missed this because I've been busy with other stuff.

I don't know why you have a habit of trying to compare irrelevancies. Northern Irish is a reasonably neutral term which is used by many moderates. You might be interested to know that in a survey taken in 1989, a slightly higher percentage of Sinn Féin supporters expressed a preference for that term when describing themselves.

Roughly a quarter of those surveyed who stated they supported the Alliance Party, SDLP or Sinn Féin, expressed a preference for the term Northern Irish. Only one in ten DUP supporters and 7% of UUP supporters expressed this same preference.

So it would appear that your insistance that the description is "a unionist identity in its entirety" is quite flawed.

You state that you have only heard "the rest of the population of the island" describe themselves as Irish. I don't know whereabouts on this island you live, and I don't particularly care. Perhaps though, you've not ever been to Northern Ireland. Maybe you live in a hole in the ground. From my own personal experience, most people are happy enough to describe themselves as Northern Irish. Some people however only like to be described as British. So no - the rest of the population most definately does not describe themselves as Irish. Again - I have no idea about your life.. perhaps everyone you have personally met on the island has only ever described themselves as such. Its not my fault that you haven't heard anyone describe themselves any differently.

Finally, if you read the purpose of the list, it clearly states that the definition with regard to is thus:

List of Northern Irish people is a list of notable people from Northern Ireland.

• people of Northern Irish descent
• people born in Northern Ireland who have since become nationals of other countries
• people born outside Northern Ireland who settled there
• famous and historical people who are descended from Ulster people and Scots-Irish and whose ancestors come from the region that is now Northern Ireland before 1922

Once again I feel I must warn you about personal attacks. I am not a loyalist. I have never described myself as such. Please leave your pre-conceptions behind you.

Reverting. --Mal 06:09, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

WHAT?!! If "Roughly a quarter of those surveyed who stated they supported the Alliance Party, SDLP or Sinn Féin, expressed a preference for the term Northern Irish. Only one in ten DUP supporters and 7% of UUP supporters expressed this same preference." Then VERY CLEARLY this is a highly POV term. 1/4 of nationalists and borderline unionists, and only 7% of loyalists and mainstream unionists? How can you possibly justify this as being accepted. Am I missing something here? SCVirus 05:48, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Gringo. There are now 3 for deleting this POV cat. Don't forget that this is the same Mal that writes off people who object against the term "british isles" as small minded brainwashed bigots (literally). Billtheking 15:00, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree that the term northern Irish should not be used to discribe people, it is not a nationality, but a Unionist revisionism term.--padraig3uk 07:23, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] City people originate from

Is it really necessary to include the city that each person originates from? And even if it is, should it be linked? The linking to the cities doesn't seem to serve the purpose of the page, which is to list Northern Irish people. If no other opinions are expressed, I will remove all links to the cities. --Thaurisil 10:01, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Science

How about including some scientists? Osborne 09:49, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

I've added as many as I can find. Feel free to add more if you know of any that are missing. Martin 23:36, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] List of Britons template

I'm not sure what to think of this, so I thought I'd ask. Is it correct to describe people from Northern Ireland/the north of Ireland as Britons? To my mind this term has three possible meanings:

1. People from Great Britain - not really relevant here

2. British people - seems a rather loaded term to list many people as, and prior to partition, possibly inaccurate

3. Citizens of the UK - does this mean people born before the creation of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland should not be listed?

I'm not trying to push any POV here - I'd have no problem with a "List of people from the UK" template (not very succinct, but you know what I mean). "Briton" just seems like a needlessly complicated term. Martin (talk) 02:44, 31 December 2007 (UTC)