Talk:List of Middle-earth rivers

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Articles for deletion This article was nominated for deletion on 29 February 2008. The result of the discussion was speedy keep.

Don't forget to add the new river articles and redirects also to the List of Middle-earth articles :). Ausir 01:39, 21 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Lots of work, but I'll try. For now I'm adding stubs for the rivers themselves. — Jor (Talk) 01:44, 21 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Done adding to the main list. I'll continue creating stubs or articles for the rivers tomorrow :-) — Jor (Talk) 02:49, 21 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Just a note: if someone else wants to continue, please put the articles at the Elvish names. Redirects from English names already exist. I strongly favour the Elvish names and will always create the article there, redirecting from English. Thus for example "Swanfleet river" already redirects to Glanduin, and "Hoarwell" to Mitheithel, even if I haven't yet found the time to create them. — Jor (Talk) 03:00, 21 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Merge

This should merge with Rivers of Middle-earth, don't you think? Civil Engineer III 14:37, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Yup. Although since the latter contains all items in this list, just turning this article into a redirect should do. -- Jordi·✆ 15:07, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Authenticity of names

Where do the names Taurduin and Gûlduin for the Forest and Enchanted Rivers come from? As far as I know, neither from Unfinished Tales, nor from The History of M-e, and they look like just constructed on the base of Morgulduin etc. Should they be mentioned? Surendil 14:35, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Meringstream.jpg

Image:Meringstream.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 22:17, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merge

I think that this article, and other articles about Middle-earth bodies of water, such as List of rivers of Beleriand, Sea of Helkar, and Bay of Belfalas, should be merged into List of Middle-earth bodies of water (as yet uncreated). My only concern is that the new article may become too long. Opinions? Psyche825 (talk) 00:10, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

I think Rivers of Gondor should be merged here, but Rivers of Beleriand should be kept separate. Not sure what to do with the the other stuff, but a separate "bodies of water" list for now should do (for lakes, marshes, swamps, seas, waterfalls). Carcharoth 00:48, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
IMHO, varoius "bodies of water" are too different in nature, and should rather be merged to Minor places in Middle-earth. Some of them are already there. Sea of Helkar possibly should go to Minor places in Arda as not from the Third Age. Cf. Almaren. Súrendil 07:57, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
I understand the reason for keeping Middle-earth and Beleriand related places separate. Initially, I was thinking that there could be some sort of note about the War of Wrath and/or the destruction of Númenor, but now it seems that would make it unnecessarily complicated. I think merging the non-river articles into "Minor places" would be a better idea. Psyche825 (talk) 17:16, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Post-merge issues

The merge looks good. Just a few things I thought should have been included from the original list, which weren't. Stuff like the mentions of the seven rivers of Gondor in the text, and the five rivers of Lebennin being mentioned in the text, similar to how Ossiriand and Treebeard's seven rivers of Ossir quote should be mentioned at Rivers of Beleriand. Here are the quotes: "Ah! the light and the music in the Summer by the Seven Rivers of Ossir!" (Treebeard, LotR); "Silver flow the streams from Celos to Erui/ In the green fields of Lebennin!" (Legolas, LotR) and "fair Lebennin with its five swift streams" (from the bit where Gandalf and Pippin arrive at Minas Tirith, LotR); "'Gondor! Gondor!' cried Aragorn. 'Would that I looked on you again in happier hour! Not yet does my road lie southward to your bright streams." (Aragorn, LotR); Morthond is mentioned as part of Aragorn's route after leaving the Paths of the Dead, but the other rivers are not menioned - the quote is "still we rode on, and Ciril and Ringló we crossed; and on the third day we came to Linhir above the mouth of Gilrain." (Aragorn and the Rangers ride from the Paths of the Dead across southern Gondor, LotR). If Sernui and Lefnui are only mentioned on the map, and not in the text, then this should be mentioned. Carcharoth 21:54, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Indeed, quite a lot should be mentioned yet and added to this article, I hope one day I'll do this. Only I'm not sure about Seven rivers of Gondor, as they, though discussed in TI, were still not included into LotR maps or even into the UT (are they mentioned in The Rivers and Beacon-Hills of Gondor?). The lists of rivers in the original article, BTW, were completely erroneous. Súrendil 07:05, 28 August 2007 (UTC)