Talk:List of Latin proverbs

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[edit] Morituri te salutant

IIRC, the reply by some emperor (Caligula?) was something like "have a nice day". Does anyone have the correct quote?
Jorge Stolfi 17:56, 14 May 2004 (UTC)

I'm not sure where it's from, but I believe it means "we who are about to die salute you."

[edit] Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori

Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori.
(It is sweet and honorable to die for the fatherland.)

Does this one belong here? As far as I know, noone ever said it until centuries after the Roman fatherland was gone.

Where did you read that? This proverb can be found in Horace's Odes (carminum liber tertius, 2, 13), which were published in 23 BCE -- about 500 years before the fall of the Western Roman Empire ;-)

Hmm...as far as I knew. Thanks very much for setting me straight.

[edit] Latin or Roman?

Do we talk about proverbs of the Roman Empire or of the Latin language ???
Kpjas

I suppose that Medieval Latin proverbs are OK, too.

[edit] Article format

I would format the page differently. Here's an example.

=== A ===
Absentem laedit, qui cum ebrio litigat. (He who quarrels with a drunk hurts an absentee.)
Ad multos annos! (On many years! or Many happy returns!)
Aegroto dum anima est, spes est. (As long as a sick person is conscious, there is still hope.)
Amor patriae nostra lex. (Love of the fatherland is our law.)
Alea iacta est. (The dice is cast!)

etc.

I thought it was more traditional to italicize the Latin. And I don't think the line breaks add anything.

What do others think? <>< tbc TBC - I agree with you. -- MB

I agree on the italication of the Latin -- However, the line breaks do add to the structure and readability of page (not to mention the individual proverbs).maveric149

[edit] Alea jacta est

BTW, shouldn't is be either "The die is cast" or "The Dice are cast"? -- MB

Dice is the plural of die. Est in the singular of 'to be' in Latin. So "The die is cast" is correct. maveric149

[edit] Mottoes and phrases

Is it appropriate to include common or important Latin phrases, such as mottoes, which aren't exactly proverbs, on this page? Is there somewhere else for them?

Yes! Latin language/Phrases (anon user)
Mottoes are OK, but phrases that are not complete sentences are better placed in list of Latin phrases.
Jorge Stolfi 15:29, 6 May 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Unauthentic proverbs

I removed a number of very funny but inauthentic and latter-day "proverbs" that I recognize from Henry Beard's Latin for All Occasions. Some may have slipped through, so remove them if you see them. - Montréalais

Good deed, however I would defend "Illegitimi non carborundum" -- I have seen it several times, so readers are likely to find this entry helpful.
Jorge Stolfi 17:56, 14 May 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Duplication with Wikiquote

There seems a duplication of effort with this page as there is a page with the same content on WikiQuote. Perhaps this page could redirect there as a list of phrases isn't really encyclopedic anyway. Any comments? Angela 19:53 24 Jul 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Gutta et libris

About this entry:

Gutta cavat lapidem non bis, sed saepe cadendo; sic homo fit sapiens bis non, sed saepe legendo. -- "A drop drills a rock by falling not twice, but many times; so too is a human made smart by reading not two, but many books" (Giordano Bruno).

Could the end be "not twice, but many times"?
Jorge Stolfi 15:29, 6 May 2004 (UTC)

Actually, I believe the translation is wrong on other levels: the word "saepe" here would suggest the following translation: "A drop drills a rock by falling not twice, but constantly (always); so too is a human made smart by reading not twice, but always (always reading)." Redux 05:31, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Acta est fabula

I believe that this one has been mistranslated. If I'm not mistaken, it actually meant: "The spectacle is over". Octavius Augustus spoke that in his death bed, and so by "spectacle" he meant his life and/or his reign (the modesty!), which was about to end due to his imminent demise. Redux 05:31, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Si vis pacem, para bellum or Sic vis pacem, para bellum?

Hi, so between "Si vis pacem, para bellum" (listed @wikipedia) and "Sic vis pacem, para bellum" which one is right?

Extraordinarily, Wikipedia is right and everyone else is wrong; "si" means "if" (and continues to have that meaning in some modern Romance languages); "sic" means "thus" or "so". The confusion probably arose from two sources: first, because a lot of famous quotes do start with "sic" ("sic semper tyrannis", etc.) Second, neither phrase is actually a direct quote of Vegetius. What he actually wrote (in the preface of "Epitoma rei militaris", Book III) was "Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum", so the more famous version is a paraphrase of a sentence that starts with a word similar in meaning to "thus" ("igitur" = "therefore"). But at least our paraphrase makes sense. Furthermore, "igitur" had disappeared in Late Latin, by which time Vegetius was no doubt being paraphrased wholesale.
BTW I learned it in high school as "si", so I just kept it as is without offering an explanation. :) --Joy [shallot]

[edit] Silentium est aureum

Are "Silentium est aureum" or "Silentium est aurum" a Latin proverb? And which one is right? I do not see it list there.

"Aurum" is "gold", "aureum" is "of gold", so the "aureum" version is more closely a translation of "Silence is golden", although the other version also makes sense, as a metaphor. They are certainly Latin, but I'm not sure if you'd call them proverbs or not. I suspect they are translated back into Latin from an English original, but that's just a wild guess. Securiger 10:43, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Not necessarily an English original, because the same proverb exists elsewhere. --Joy [shallot]

Thank you.

[edit] A mari usque ad mare

A mari usque ad mare, the motto of Canada, is not a proverb from what I know. It is taken from a passage in the Bible. This should therefore be removed or maybe moved to List of Latin phrases, don't you think? --Liberlogos 03:05, 12 Jul 2004 (UTC)

[edit] It is a great disappointment ...

... to see that the list of Latin proverbs has gone. If it is at Wikiquote, can't we have it here as well? <KF> 17:40, Mar 12, 2005 (UTC)

Hi, I echoed your sentimement. While the written content was duplicated (at least the quotes and their meanings), the editorial value (ie: having the quotes which linked to wikipedia articles and provided additional information about the quotes) was lost. Thus, I have restored those quotes which I considered to provide more information than just their meanings: e.g. Whose motto the quote is, or whence its pertinence, or links to a full article about it, etc. Please add more quotes to the Wikipedia list if you can provide additional information to that provided on the Wikiquote list (and have the inclination). I think that many more of the quotes could be turned into non-stubish articles with a little effort. nsh 22:16, Mar 12, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Non olet

I remember - or think - that "Non olet" is usually mentioned in the full sentence, i.e. as "Pecunia non olet", "money doesn't stink". Or not?

[edit] Daft

This is silly. There are now two lists of proverbs, on different Wikis, distinguished only by whether or not additional information exists beyond the mere translation! I can make no sense of such a subtle distinction. I would not expect, as a reader, to have two lists covering the same subject, one here and one on Wikiquote! Please, lets have the whole lot here, where I would expect to find them - Adrian Pingstone 22:24, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I think I agree. I restored some of the quotes merely as a compromise, but I think that the importance of having the quotes here, where more information about them can be added, and they can be linked to wikipedia articles is worth the duplication of work in updating both. In point of fact, having them in two places will actually increase the likelyhood of their growth by virtue of the increased attention. It only takes one person a few minutes to bring each list up to date with the other. So I propose that restore the full list and take the onus to propagate additions to the Wikipedia list in the Wikiquote article. Any disagreements? nsh 04:53, Mar 13, 2005 (UTC)
Well, one possible problem is that they will get out of synch rather quickly. It seems better, in my mind, to have one place for proverbs, whether they be on Wikipedia or Wikiquote. – Quadell (talk) (sleuth) 13:17, Mar 13, 2005 (UTC)
Whoever deleted "natura non contristur" must have been mistaken. Schopenhauer cites it in the World as Will and Representation as meaning, "nature isn't sentimental". I can understand the mix-up, since someone posted a similar proverb, begining with "natura non", but it is a Latin proverb and I'm going to re-post it.

Maprovonsha172 01:33, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

We can move them here, but there are a great number of similar articles on wikiquote:

I would have thought that wikiquote was a more appropriate place to house these. – Quadell (talk) (sleuth) 03:53, Mar 13, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Draco Dormiens

The last three edits have centered around this text:

  • Draco dormiens numquam titillandus — "Never tickle a sleeping dragon" — Motto of Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry in the Harry Potter novels by J. K. Rowling.

To whit:

  • 11:57, 21 September 2005 155.198.233.90 (Removed Harry Potter(NN))
  • 16:58, 21 September 2005 Iustinus (Revert: Harry Potter is at least as relevant as Asterix and Mock Latin)
  • 19:05, 21 September 2005 Jonathunder (this is not a proverb: a pithy saying which had gained credence through widespread or frequent use.)

OK, Jonathunder and 155.198.233.90 may have a point. But if these standards were fairly and consistantly employed a huge portion of this list would have to be removed, e.g. how frequent is Et nunc, reges, intelligite, erudimini, qui judicati terram used? How much "credence" has E pluribus unum gained? What kind of Latin is Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carborata descendum pantorum?

Not to mention that the opening paragraph expressly includes "sayings" as well as "proverbs"

I would tend towards inclusionism here. I admit part of my fondness for the HP quote is that Rowling bothered to use real Latin for it. Do we really need to throw out everything that doesn't meet the literal definition of the title? --Iustinus 04:50, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Quo vadis Domine?

shouldn't the translation be "my lord, whither thou art going?" (sorry for the elizabethian english) cause last time i checked Domine is "my lord" which could be interpreted as god but not necceseraly...

[edit] Cura te ipsum

Actually, this phrase does correctly mean "Take care of yourself yourself". The "te" is the reflexive "yourself" (i.e. "the king hit himself"), and the "ipsum" is a determinative pronoun meaning "yourself", (i.e. "the master himself wants to see you"). It only sounds funny in English because English is so much less precise, not having a different word for doing an action to "yourself" and performing an action "yourself". But I won't change it back, because it does sound weird; I just wanted to make that aspect of the phrase clear. -Silence 16:19, 14 November 2005 (UTC)