Talk:List of LGBT Jews

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Should this page's "Musicians" listing be "Music business", since it includes producers, managers, talent agents, etc.?

Contents

[edit] Sergei Eistenstein

I never realised Eisenstein was gay. Can anyone find me some evidence to support this?

See for example his GLBTQ entry. Though, having said that, it may be worth moving him to the "debated orientation" section. -Udzu 20:30, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Guido Westerwelle

I removed Guido Westerwelle as he seems not to be Jewish. According to this bio sheet he belongs to the Evangelical Church in Germany. --Angr/tɔk tə mi 18:09, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Is This page offensive ?

I don't know about being fair to Jews (or fair to gays for that matter), but I don't understand why this deserves a wiki page... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.251.214.120 (talk) 01:32, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

This page isn't fair to Jewish people. It should be removed because it is defaming Jews. 69.218.181.192 20:54, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure of that, but by the same token I'm not sure why this intersection is important. As far as I can tell there are no other LGBT lists by ethnicity or nationality. There's no List of LGBT Germans, List of LGBT English, or List of LGBT Japanese. There's also none by religion if one takes that approach. It is possible that this does serve "a message" that Jewish people are more socially liberal/progressive, but whether that "message" is praise or defamation depends on one's perception.--T. Anthony 13:57, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
In re the first comment above, this page does not defame Jews in any way. It is merely a list of people who happen to be both Jewish and lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender. Ask any one of the people on the list (except the dead, of course) and I think you will find they perfectly proud to be Jewish and perfectly proud to be lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender. I am quite sure they do not feel in any way defamed - and since they're the people who are listed, they're the ones who would rightly have any right to complain if they felt they were being defamed.
In re the second comment, I don't know that any of the lists which appear anywhere in the Wikipedia are important. Indeed, when one thinks of encyclopaedias, one does not think of a collection of lists. For whatever reasons, the editorial board of the Wikipedia decided that this endcyclopaedia does contain a number of lists -- of people, places, things, etc., of all kinds; including, obviously, a list of LGBT Jews. If there are no lists of LGBT Britons, Americans, Germans, Japanese, Christians, etc., perhaps that's just because nobody from one of those groups has gotten around to creating a list yet. Perhaps they will now.
207.200.116.203 09:12, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Higher Percentage of Gays/Lesbians Found in Modern Jews -- Research

I'm wondering if anyone has come across any serious scholarly research that has examined the fact that Jews tend to be quite overrepresented amongst the gay and lesbian populations in the modern World, particularly in the USA and Western Europe. I have read about this on certain Jewish websites and in a couple Jewish newsletters/newspapers, but have yet to find any academic research on this matter. I know that the worldwide Jewish community is generally very gay/lesbian friendly, but I am looking for information/statistics that have has confirmed the noticeably higher incidence of homosexuality/lesbianism in the (mostly secular) Jewish population. Thank you for any information that you can provide. --205.188.116.73 16:22, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Magneto (from X-Men) was gay?

I thought he was just Jewish. His article says nothing of his sexual orientation.

He definitely has sexual relationships with women. I suspect soemone has put him on there becasue Ian McKellen, the man who plays him in the film and very, very gay. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 13:00, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
Well. There has been a certain amount of fan speculation about his relationship with Charles Xavier in various universes, particularly the Ultimate line of comics, where they run away from their wives together and describe the experience as "far more powerful than being in love". Arguably, this is simply an example of the somewhat overwrought behavior to which Marvel comics characters are prone. My own opinion aside, I'm going to remove him, since nothing is or is likely to be verifiable. —Celithemis 03:03, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] References

Just a small point. But almost no one in this list has a reference! It is a controversial subject and the list includes many living people. Each entry needs to be properly referenced. Really all those without references should be moved here. I won't though as I'm rather busy with other LGBT lists... Please can contributors make an effort to find a source for those in this list? -WJBscribe (WJB talk) 12:25, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

For Jewish references A-E, check this revision of my drafts page. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 13:33, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
Brilliant! I'll get to work on incorporating those... -WJBscribe (WJB talk) 14:06, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Another call for sourcing: H.L.A. Hart

With lists such as these, there are always thorny issues about categorization. For example, I was very surprised to discover that [[[H.L.A. Hart]]] was a homosexual, until I made the further discovery that he was married with four children and that it is some unnamed, unsourced "biographers" who claim that he's gay. I'm not going to do anything about it because doing that would involve a revert war and most likely some nasty attacks on my own motives. I would like it if someone would properly source this list and indeed leave out the ones whose sexuality is based on conjecture, or by a claims made by a minority of their biographers (who after all often make such claims to generate attention; if you don't believe me think of Albert Goldman's scandalous biography of John Lennon [which ironically enough accused him of homosexuality-- add Lennon to the list of LGBT Britons!]), but this is wikipedia after all and it is expecting too much for people to follow historical methods. Allon FambrizziAllon Fambrizzi

[edit] More on Sourcing

  • I have decided to delete all the entries that are not sourced. The page will never be sourced otherwise, and it's the least one can ask for given the controversial subject matter, and the fact that much of this is debated. Don't worry; the old entries will all be saved in the page history and may be reinserted at any time with sources. Note that like most editors I don't consider blogs or webpages run by activists to be proper sourcing. Allon Fambrizzi 12:31, 31 December 2006 (UTC)Allon Fambrizzi
    • Just to say that I agree totally with Allon Fambrizzi. WP:LIVING requires controversial comments about living people to be referenced. The not verified template is not adequate to cover this problem. Each entry can be added once a reliable source is found to confirm that this person is (a) Jewish and (b) Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual or Transgendered. WJBscribe (WJB talk) 12:56, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Then why haven't you removed all the unsourced names in "Straight contributors to LGBT culture"? Udzu 12:01, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fictional characters?

I do not think that a list with this title should have fictional characters in it. Were there to be a separate list of LGBT Jews in fiction I would support it because such a list would have precision, and would not dilute the valid list of living and dead real people.

I am considering being bold and splitting this article, but I suspect that might be viewed as controversial. It would be infinitely preferable to build a consensus over this and to determine whether this section has a true place here or would be better in its own article. Fiddle Faddle 16:21, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

The list is now split. See article page. Fiddle Faddle 07:53, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Link to List of LGBT Rabbis does not go to such a list

The link (under the category "Religious figures") goes to an external website's homepage, and IF there is indeed a list of LGBT rabbis at that site, I cannot find it.

I WOULD have deleted it, but I am hoping that such a list exists, and that someone could change the link...? Jfarber 23:19, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Why Boleslaw Lesmian was removed from the list

After doing an extensive reading on Lesmian's biography, I can see no LGBT connection. On the other hand, his heterosexual extramartial affairs are well known and broadly described (e.g. with Dora Lebenthal).

The source cited here is the only one I ever came across. It mentions Lesmian among some other Polish writers, who like Iwaszkiewicz were undoubtedly bi- or homosexual (and many sources attest that). In case of Lesmian, hovever, neither his biography, nor his works reveal any homoerotic quality whatsoever. heyst, 6 July 2007

[edit] Leslea Newman?

Hi! Does anyone know if Leslea Newman wasn't included on the list of writers for a reason? Just an oversight? I believe she's always been very open about her sexual orientation and wrote the seminal LGBT children's book, Heather Has Two Mommies. I was curious about whether she was omitted for a particular reason? Thanks! Howardsmith 16:11, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What evidence is strong enough?

Given an actor who has only publically had straight relationships, and then "hints" at being bi during interviews related to a bi/gay character. Is that enough for inclusion, or should it be ignored as marketing. The example that prompted this question is Mia Kirshner, who is on this list and List of bisexual people, with the only source being a hint dropped during an interview related to such a role.