Talk:List of KOF Orochi Saga characters

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Since when "Tales of Ash" arc is called "Orochi Saga II"? There should be a seperate page for characters in "Tales of Ash" arc. --BlisterD (talk) 08:30, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

"Tales of Ash" on all accounts is just a continuation of the Orochi Saga storyline, and directly tied to it. A separate page would be pointless.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 19:25, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
And the "Nests" arc was also "tied" to the previous games, if you go there... It's a new part. Since when is it called "_Tales of_ Ash", anyway? Is there an official source, or is that just a fan name? Same question about the so-called "Orochi _Saga_" and "NESTS _Chronicles_", actually... And why "NESTS" rather than "Nests"? it's the name of their leader, not an acronym, right? 88.161.129.43 (talk) 13:42, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
NESTS (and yeah it's all capitals when used in the games, thus that's the way it's shown here) was more stand alone and wasn't primarily interested in reviving Orochi, instead concerned more with Kusanagi's power if anything (excluding the EX side story). And both Orochi Saga and Chronicles of NESTS were names used for the bundles when SNK sold them together if memory serves, and has been refered to before hand. So that should take care of all your points.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 20:31, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
SNK didn't say anything about the current arc being "Orochi II", I believe... And no, I've never heard anything about SNK using the terms "Orochi Saga" and "Chronicles of NESTS" for the bundles. It was just "The King of Fighters Orochi Hen" (or "THE KING OF FIGHTERS OROCHI" in alphabet) and "The King of Fighters Nests Hen" (or "THE KING OF FIGHTERS NESTS" in alphabet), as you can see here: http://game.snkplaymore.co.jp/consumer/playstation2.php ). They also released a pachislo game called "THE KING OF FIGHTERS Chapter of NESTS" ( http://game.snkplaymore.co.jp/mobile/i-mode/slot-apri.php#kofnests )No "chronicles" there either... 88.161.129.43 (talk) 00:13, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
Amazing what a simple google search can find. And adding to that seems it was actually NESTS Saga. So that offers reasons for both those. As for the current arc being a continuation or at least extremely closely related to the last arc, it primarily revolves around the Orochi Seal from the end of '97 being broken and the after events, plus the fact the last three bosses excluding Adel were directly related to Orochi. While you could split it off, given how little there is there for now someone would probably just suggest a re-merging.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 00:37, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
Since when is a mere Google search considered a reliable source? IGN isn't SNK Playmore, so I don't see your point. SNK Playmore never called the game like that (nor did they call it "The King of Fighters Collection: Orochi Version" another title listed), as far as I know and can tell (but feel free to prove me wrong). And I really don't know what you think you're proving with that other link. Whoever wrote that forum post did call the game "NESTS Saga", but so what? Besides, he also provided the picture of the game case. Now, _that_ comes from SNK Playmore, and the title is "THE KING OF FIGHTERS NESTS" in alphabet and "The King of Fighters -Nests Hen-" in Japanese, just like I told you earlier. Just check. And yes, the "Ash arc" is a continuation of the previous games, but it's _still_ considered a new arc, officially (called "Ash Hen" in Japanese here: http://kofaniv.snkplaymore.co.jp/history/history.php?num=kofxi , just lile the previous arcs were called "Orochi Hen" and "Nests Hen", as seen here, for example: http://kofaniv.snkplaymore.co.jp/history/history.php?num=kof2003 ) I mean... That's not exactly a novel concept in works of fiction, now, is it? ^^; As for the "NESTS"/"Nests" issue... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_%28Japan-related_articles%29#Capitalization_of_words_in_Roman_script It's not an acronym, hence it should be "Nests", here. 88.161.129.43 (talk) 13:08, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
Good lord you're annoying as hell...anyway, I've seen the games commercially sold here in the US as "Orochi Saga" and "NESTS Saga". And those aren't exactly full names. I'm not really concerned what they're called in japanese, because this is the american wikipedia and we generally go with US names if viable. Also, it appears as NESTS in the games. All caps. Not lowercase. Doesn't matter if it's an acronym or not, that's how they do it that's how we roll with it.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 14:51, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
And because I'm pretty sure even that won't be enough for you: This page refers to the arc as "NESTS Chronicles", and This one cites '97 as the third and final chapter of the Orochi Saga. So we done here?--Kung Fu Man (talk) 14:58, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
Taking it further, note the fact both are refered to as the Orochi and NESTS sagas here, and that the next chapter is mainly around Ash.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 15:00, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
But the games weren't officially relased in the US. I don't think official Japanese titles should be trumped by unofficial English titles (especially when there are several of them). For the "NESTS"/"Nests" thing, you apparently didn't read the link I gave you regarding Wikipedia's policies. See also here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_%28capital_letters%29#All_caps Good find for the last links though. I guess "Orochi Saga", "Nests Saga" and "Nests Chronicles" would be acceptable, then. Still no "Tales of Ash" in sight though. The very last link also calls the "Ash" arc a brand new chapter, by the way. 88.161.129.43 (talk) 15:35, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
Read the link, found it irrelevant: that's nitpicking, and the use of an organization name (as for all we know it could be an acronym as well as a name) should stick to the way it's shown: nowhere is NESTS shown as "Nests". As for the Ash bit, like Sake neko below me points out the saga is still sticking in line with the Orochi Saga, and really it'd be best to wait till KoFXII to consider separating the two as that'll add more most likely (not to mention a bit worried about too many sublists at once). As for the name I'll add a fact tag, see if anyone comes up with anything.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 16:07, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
About "sticking to the way it's shown" regarding "NESTS"/"Nests"... the last Wikipedia link I gave you clearly disagrees with you on that (there are quite a few similar examples, too). And I still don't see how a narrative connection between two different arcs of a series (specifically said to be separate by the makers) means that we should merge these two arcs into one, but hey... I guess we'll just have to disagree about that last one. Yes, I'm nitpicking, but the devil's in the details. 'Just trying to be as precise as possible for the sake of the articles, that's all. 88.161.129.43 (talk) 16:15, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

But the newer games are all about Orochi getting loose again. Remember Shion's or Magaki's conversations during their cut scenes? Mukai had similar sentiments as well. Perhaps the naming of the section may not be appropriate but I believe those characters should stay where they are because they are linked with Orochi seal in some way. Sake neko (talk) 01:08, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

After browsing through SNK's site for any real name for this arc, I found this entry by Ureshino that mentions the new arc is "Ash Hen" (アッシュ編) which roughly means "Ash Chapter". He also uses the same character hen for the NESTS saga (『ネスツ編』). So would it be safe to dub it "Ash Saga" for now -until we find an English equivalent? Sake neko (talk) 04:59, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] "Leopold"?

What's the source for Goenitz being named "Leopold", please? 88.161.129.43 (talk) 17:06, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "Hakkesshu"

It should be "Hakketsushū" ( http://web.archive.org/web/20010418043855/www.neogeo.co.jp/kof00/diction/yogo-o.htm ). Should we really keep the mistake of the (awful) English translation? 88.161.129.43 (talk) 15:23, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

I don't mind the change since it's a simple spelling edit -I only used the quote from the game as it was easy for me to get at the time- but be sure to properly cite the given name with that reference. I do admit having trouble seeing the link given though, as half the time it'll work and half the time it won't. Then again, that could be just my connection. Sake neko (talk) 05:20, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
That happens to me, too. It's a bit of a pain. Sorry. As for the term, I asked because it also changes the pronunciation of the word and goes against what is probably familiar to non-Japanese players, so... I'll try and change that. 88.161.129.43 (talk) 13:29, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
Come to think about it, the English version of the anniversary site apparently uses "Orochi 8ketsu Clan" for the group ( http://kofaniv.snkplaymore.co.jp/english/character/index.php?num=yamazaki or http://kofaniv.snkplaymore.co.jp/english/character/index.php?num=orochi-leona ), and "8ketsu" for an individual (strangely worded but... http://kofaniv.snkplaymore.co.jp/english/character/index.php?num=goenitz ). I guess removing the "shū" for individuals kinda makes sense, and translating otherwise is fine by me as well... "8ketsu" is terribly awkward though. "Hakketsu"? 88.161.129.43 (talk) 13:39, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
Well, Hakkettsshu or -whatever name it's supposed to be, I don't know at this point- roughly means "eight blooded" as in eight of the same same blood and it refers to a group of people, meaning that the term is always plural. Saying that "so and so is one of the eight" is fine but trying to make a plural into a singular term like in Leona's profile isn't supposed to really happen. It's like saying that a singular term exists for the Shinsengumi but it doesn't (it's always "a member of the Shinsengumi"). That weird "8ketsu" doesn't really make much sense in either language really... Sake neko (talk) 06:59, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
True, true... 'Guess I got a bit too used to how they use the name of the group as is for the individuals in Japanese... So how do we handle that one? "Orochi Hakketsu Clan"/"member of the Orochi Hakketsu Clan"? Or do we keep "Orochi Hakketsushū"/"member of the Orochi Hakketsushū?"? 88.161.129.43 (talk) 16:17, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
"Orochi Hakketsushū"/"member of the Orochi Hakketsushū" but that's just my personal preference. Technically either one of those are correct as they are both grammatically correct. Personally, I've never really thought of the proper romanization of those guys since I've always followed the Japanese kanji. Y'know, those eight bloody Orochi guys -tee hee. You might want to get a third opinion on this before you commit to any changes. Boy, do I love Engrish. :) Sake neko (talk) 21:20, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Orochi97.jpg

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BetacommandBot (talk) 15:57, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Shion

Isn't Shion female. Why does it say he?71.143.3.182 (talk) 20:57, 6 April 2008 (UTC)Cardinal Raven

Because as disturbing as it is, he is actually an extremely feminine looking man. Even his XI bio makes blatant comments to the fact, and it's referenced again in Magaki's.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 21:08, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
And for what it's worth, Shion's name is written in blue on the page of the Days of Memories game he appears in. Meaning he's male. Anyway, like the official KOF anniversary site says, his design was based on a rejected sketch for a female character that was supposed to be one of Ron's daughters (I guess they finally used that idea when they created Xiao Lon?), so that probably explains the androgynous look. 88.161.129.43 (talk) 14:58, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

But he looks like he has a breast. How does that work? That is disturbing. Very disturbing. My dreams have been crushed.71.143.3.182 (talk) 23:10, 6 April 2008 (UTC)Cardinal Raven

Really having breasts and a feminine form don't mean much when it comes from japan. Just ask poor Poison.

Yeah, but there is nothing super wrong with Shion. She...He isn't wearing some skimpy outfit and looks like the seducer of all men. Why in gods name did they make her...him a man?71.143.3.182 (talk) 03:07, 7 April 2008 (UTC)Cardinal Raven