Talk:List of IRAs

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A number of soldiers, who were sympathetic to Irish republicanism, and who served in the British armed forces during the sixties, joined the IRA after their service ended with the British military. Mostly from army and marine units, they shared their experience and professionalism throughout the ranks of the IRA, increasing the fighting capacity and skill of the IRA units, with their past experience from the British military. On several occasions, British troops patrolling areas of Northern Ireland confronted former soldiers, who had served with their regiment or unit.

This doesn;t really belong on an article entitled list of IRAs. Should it be added to the page on the Provisionals? Palmiro 12:07, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

1 Reverted
- 1.1 The Lead
2 Provisionals "strongly oppsed" to Marxism
3 Title

[edit] Reverted

Will editors actually read the article before adding duplicate information in future. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 19:35, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Please explain the duplicate Information, I have read and reread the article and it is still not clear to me.Even if you are right, that this could have been achieved without so many 3RR - I want good articles too. Aatomic1 19:50, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Read the article. It's duplicate information. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 19:51, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

A bit of OR don't you think: "Minister for Justice Kevin O'Higgins demanded an inquiry into the Ballyseedy incident, but Mulcahy condoned the murderous conduct by selecting O'Daly to preside at the Army inquiry, which became a monumental charade. Those who wished to implement the policies of Collins could be divided into two elements within the army. There were those at headquarters like Mulcahy, O'Sullivan, and Quartermaster General Seán O Muirthile, who wished to operate within the Irish Republican Brotherhood (IRB). The other group, which included members of the Big Fellow's Intelligence staff and the Squad, people like Liam Tobin, Charlie Dalton and Paddy O'Daly, formed a rival organisation of members of the old IRA, which was known as the IRA Organisation (IRAO).--Domer48 21:19, 8 September 2007 (UTC) Ryle Dwyer analyses the events following Collins’ death. So it needs to be supported with a bit more. --Domer48 21:25, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

The Old IRA or IRA Organisation, was setup by members and disembarked members of the Free State Army, in responce to the re-emergance of a new Irish Republican Brotherhood, the IRA Organisation give their allegiance to the Old IRB. See The IRA The Secret Army by J Bowyer Bell p45-48 ISBN 0-906187-27-3--padraig 21:22, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, but Bowyer Bell specifically puts IRA Organisation in scare quotes. They were just a faction within the army. At best they need a mention in the relevant section, not one of their own. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 21:32, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

I agree they don't need their own section, as the were no more then a pressure group within the free State Army.--padraig 21:38, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Would you not accept that they have had more influence on Irish history that CIRA or RIRA? Aatomic1 21:41, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

As an organisation? Absolutely not. The Real IRA managed to virtually kill off repuplican support for armed struggle. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 21:47, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

What relevence does that have, the RIRA and CIRA are seperate organisations, whereas the IRA Organisation was just a pressure group within the Free State Army. Which can be dealt with within the existing article on the Free State Army.--padraig 21:52, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Lead

I am following through Domer's statement (about which I have no views as I neither know or do not know). I am not convinced by ONiH's view that IRAO is already included in the article.

If Padraig thinks IRAO should not be included could he explain how IRAO does not get caught by the lead sentence:

The IRA (Irish Republican Army) is a name used to describe several paramilitary movements in Ireland in the 20th and 21st centuries.

Aatomic1 23:03, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Regardless of this discussion, you have not addressed the same information on the Tobin article. The Squad is a good book, but read the review in the Irish Democrate. It might help with the article, Ryle Dwyer's analyses and his use of language. --Domer48 23:39, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

I am quite prepared to accept that...spotted a gap... a lot do do yet... have not covered a lot of references...(but if anyone knows when he died I would be grateful) Aatomic1 00:00, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Because the IRAO was not a seperate movement from the Free State Army, but a pressure group within that organisation, therefore it can be dealt with within the history of the Free State Army.--padraig 07:57, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Aatomic1 at no time have I suggested POV,[1]. What I have shown, is that your edits could be described as Original research. The IRAO was not a seperate movement. Tobin alone, was not part of this pressure group, but one of a number. Your own reference illustrates my point, "Those who wished to implement the policies of Collins could be divided into two elements within the army. Therefore, we are talking about one army, with two groups within it. --Domer48 10:13, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm not convinced either way...but on the bright side that does mean I don't feel strong enough to put IRAO back into the article. Aatomic1 11:01, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Just put a brief mention in the "Old IRA" section I say. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 11:05, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

That makes sense. We can all live with that. What about the Tobin article, should the changes here be reflected on that article? It would make sense. --Domer48 11:16, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Provisionals "strongly oppsed" to Marxism

The PIRA was not strongly opposed to the OIRA Marxism, they simply had less extreme socialist values. They split more on the grounds of ceasefire rather than ideaology.

[edit] Title

The title should be changed to "List of Irish Republican Paramilitaries." Then the ICA, the Irish Volunteers of 1916 and the INLA could be included. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.147.118.238 (talk) 21:56, 9 June 2008 (UTC)