Talk:List of Holden vehicles

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[edit] Removal of Holden Limited Edition, GTS and Panel Van

The above were removed with reason given as "were never standalone models but rather specification levels of others". May I ask for clarrification please on what "other" models they were part of. GTHO (talk) 00:12, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

According to Red Book, the Limited Edition, GTS and Panel Van were not stand alone models as per the following pages:

• Limited Edition: part of Monaro lineup, badged as "LE" [1]
• GTS: part of Monaro lineup [2]
• Panel Van: bodystyle of Kingswood range. [3]

The Holden Limited Edition brochure H591 of July 1976 makes no mention of the word Monaro and the photos in the brochure clearly show that there are no Monaro badges on the car. I suggest that Red Book have been a bit creative in calling it a Monaro LE GTHO (talk) 05:59, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Red Book aren't the only ones calling the Limited Edition this [4]. Nevertheless, I've re-instated the Limited Edition to the list. OSX (talk • contributions) 02:58, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

A double page spread on the HZ GTS, reproduced from a sales brochure, appears on pages 198 & 199 of "The Holden Collection" (by A.C. Bushby). It mentions the GTS name nine times but does not use the term Monaro at all. In light of this I don't believe that we should consider it to be a Monaro. GTHO (talk) 09:26, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Done OSX (talk • contributions) 02:58, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

I believe that there is a strong case in support of the inclusion of the Holden Panel Van as a stand alone model. The following table summarizes findings from relevant GMH brochures (where available), the GMH publication “Holden Heritage : Eighth Edition” and the book “100 Years of GM in Australia”. The Sandman has not been included in the table as it is already accounted for in the List of Holden Vehicles page.

Series	GMH Brochures	Holden Heritage : Eighth Edition	100 Years of GM in Australia
FJ	Holden Panel Van	Holden Panel Van	Holden Panel Van
FE	Unavailable	Holden Panel Van	Holden Panel Van
FC	Holden Panel Van	Holden Panel Van	Holden Panel Van
FB	Holden Panel Van	Holden Panel Van	Holden Panel Van
EK	Holden Panel Van	Holden Panel Van	Holden Panel Van
EJ	Holden Panel Van	Holden Panel Van	Holden Panel Van
EH	Holden Panel Van	Holden Panel Van	Holden Panel Van
HD	Holden Panel Van	Holden Panel Van	Holden Panel Van
HR	Holden Panel Van	Holden Panel Van	Holden Panel Van
HK	Unavailable	Belmont Panel Van	Belmont Panel Van
HT	Unavailable	Belmont Panel Van	Belmont Panel Van
HG	Unavailable	Belmont Panel Van	Belmont Panel Van
HQ	Unavailable	Belmont Panel Van	Belmont Panel Van
HJ	Unavailable	Holden Panel Van	Belmont Panel Van
HX	Unavailable	Holden & Kingswood Panel Vans	Belmont & Kingswood Panel Vans
HZ	Holden & Kingswood Panel Vans	Holden & Kingswood Panel Vans	Belmont Panel Van
WB	Unavailable	Not specified	Holden & Kingswood Panel Vans

From the above I think we can safely say that the Holden Panel Van existed as a stand alone model from the FJ through to the HR series and that HK to HQ Panel Vans were Belmonts. Then it gets difficult due to the conflicting information but my money is on there being a Holden Panel Van from the HJ through to the WB series. GTHO (talk) 02:08, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

I disagree. The "Holden Heritage" is no longer publisher in book form, but rather as three PDF files on the GM Media website (making it an official source) as The Holden Heritage - 13th Edition (Part One, Part Two, Part Three). Part One cites that the FJ came in the following models: Standard sedan, Business sedan, Special sedan, panel van and utility. Note that "panel van" is written without capitalisation of the first letter. This is similar to how Holden previously to referred to the base model Holden Ute as simply the "Holden Ute", while in the case of the VX series; the performance versions were designated "Holden Ute S" and "Holden Ute SS". Unsurprisingly, the updated models follow this format. For example the HR: Standard sedan, Special sedan, Premier sedan, Standard station wagon, Special station wagon, Premier station wagon, panel van and utility. The HQ models are listed as: Belmont sedan, Belmont station wagon, Belmont panel van, Belmont utility, Kingswood sedan, Kingswood station wagon, Kingswood utility, Sandman panel van, Sandman utility, SS sedan, Premier sedan, Premier station wagon, Holden cab/ chassis truck, Monaro coupe, Monaro GTS coupe, Monaro GTS 350 coupe, Monaro LS (‘Luxury Sports’) coupe, Monaro GTS sedan, Statesman sedan and Statesman De Ville sedan.

This is interesting as both lots of data originate from same "The Holden Heritage" source. The difference being that your copy is version eight, whereas mine in thirteen. I would advise you go take another look at your "Holden Heritage" source to confirm that it does uses capitalisation to denote the panel vans ("Belmont panel van" or "Belmont Panel Van"). If your copy does turns out to be written as “Panel Van”, I would assume that the newer version of the publication would take precedence. Regards OSX (talk • contributions) 05:46, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

I can confirm that the Eighth Edition of Holden Heritage uses “panel van” rather than “Panel Van” and I apologise for the fact that the table didn’t accurately show that. However I don’t think we should ignore the fact that GMH used the upper case “Holden Panel Van” or “Holden Panel Vans” in the main text of (at least) the FJ, FE, FB, EK, EJ, EH, HD, HR & HX brochures. Copies of some of these brochures can be seen by clicking on the 50th Anniversary logo at top of the page at The Sixties Holden Archives Cheers, GTHO (talk) 02:01, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Although this may seem a bit hypocritical, I still stand by my previous decision. Holden also referred to the utility variants as the "Holden Utility" as well, but these were not standalone models. To be honest Holden, like most people/organisations/companies is guilty of over-capitalisation. It looks more official to capitalise "utility". Evidence of this is shown on page 95 of Heart of the Lion: The 50 Year History of Australia's Holden (1998) which has an advertisement of the "Holden Panel Van" (FJ). The caption to the right of the image reads, "The FJ panel van gave Australia's Own a new type of practicality". Likewise, the first Holden station wagon was known as the "Station Sedan" (note the capitalisation). This, however, does not make the "Station Sedan" a separate model. You have proved your case for the Limited Edition and GTS, but have not provided substantial information highlighting the panel van body style as an individual model. I would also like to emphasise again that the Holden Heritage, an official GM Holden publication does not classify the panel van or pre-1990 utility models as separate models. OSX (talk • contributions) 08:24, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

The “Holden Station Sedan” from FE through to HR always had an additional name, i.e. Holden Standard Station Sedan, Holden Special Station Sedan or (from EH onwards) Holden Premier Station Sedan. These variants are covered in the “List of Holden Vehicles” by the Holden Standard, Holden Special & Holden Premier entries respectively and I have no problem with that. On the other hand the pre HK “Holden Panel Van” was not a Holden Standard Panel Van or a Holden Special Panel Van, it was simply a Holden Panel Van (I’ll stick to the official GMH brochure capitalization for now). But where is it covered in the “List of Holden Vehicles”? GTHO (talk) 23:54, 20 March 2008 (UTC)