Talk:List of Greeks

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Why is written "Greek actress", "Greek shipping magnate", "Greek composer", "Greek philosopher", etc. on each person ? It's obvious that they're Greek, since this is the "List of Greeks"! Bogdan 20:43, 24 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Cleaned up and removed the redundant language. So there shouldn't be a problem, as of me writing this message. However, its bound to re-occur as people add more names.Aggelophoros 04:09, 19 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Euclidean geometry

I've removed the label Euclidean geometry from all of the Scientists entries except Euclid himself. Ancient Greek geometers can be said to have worked on Euclidean geometry (in the modern sense) only to the extent that it was the only type of geometry around at that time; in this sense the term is completely redundant, much like specifying Greek on every entry. And to say that someone who lived two hundred years before Euclid (Pythagoras) studied Euclidean geometry is a bit of an anachronism. - dcljr 19:22, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)


[edit] Shaya

Would Shaya, I entered her under "Singers", be approriate to be entered in this list? Since its title: "Famous Greeks or Greek-speaking/writing people". She's not Greek by birth but did immigrant to the country and when young and speaks the language fluently. ~Mallaccaos

[edit] red links

This article is overburdened with red links. Some are persistently re-added. If someone is famous enough to be on the list, then they surely deserve an article. If they're in fact not famous or significant enough for an article (as it's clear many of these people aren't) then why should they be included in the list? --Mel Etitis (��ελ Ετητης) 17:00, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Poets

the article needs a section on poets, from the ancients up to moderns, kavafis, seferis, elytis, ritsos, etc.

There's already a List of Greek language poets page, linked to from the panel in this article. --Mel Etitis (��ελ Ετητης) 09:26, 13 March 2006 (UTC)


[edit] This topic should be renamed as Greek heritage!

I am wonderful that Pete Sampras, Mark Philippoussis and Marcos Baghdatis are under the List of Greeks but Michael Chang is not under List of Chinese or List of Taiwanese!!! 218.102.206.136 17:38, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mathematicians and scientists

This article needs a section on mathmeaticians and scientists! -ptsourkas

See the link in the box to the right of the page. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 07:40, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Summary

You cannot have a summary for what you think a "Greek person" is, and you especially can not include people who are "Greek language|Greek -speaking/writing". If you have a list called "List of Greeks", it must have people on it who are Greek (or at least who have been described as "Greek" by a reliable source), not who are anything that you think makes them Greek. Anything else is a violation of Original Research. There is also no point in listing Americans, because there is a list of Greek-Americans, so if everyone on that list automatically belongs here, then why do we have that list at all? Mad Jack O'Lantern 15:32, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

What is the basis for your list of commands and claims? --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 22:21, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
Maybe trying to bring order to the disorder that is Wikipedia?? This list needs to be either renamed or edited, take your pick. Pete Sampras is an American of Greek descent for example. --Tom 00:02, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
It's very simple Mel Etitis. If you want to keep that definition, you're going to have to cite that it's the definition for "Greek" from a reliable source. If you want to keep Aniston here, you're going to have to cite a source (a reliable source, not a trivia website) that calls her "Greek" (not Greek-American). It's that simple - basic Wiki policy. Mad Jack O'Lantern 00:34, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Let's get things straight, which the assumption of an adversarial process by Jack O'Lantern and Threeafterthree might be muddying. The summary isn't mine, adn I have no proprietorial interest in it. Rather, after cleaning up and defending this list for a while, I saw someone with no previous interest in it suddenly change the summary without any attempt at discussion with other editors. I'm open to discussion as to how to improve the list – and am more than happy to agree that it needs improvement – but the abrupt and arrogant way in which Jack O'Lantern swept in and started laying down the law was not the way to achieve Wikipedia-style consensus.

Note that "This is a list of Greek people" is absurd as a summary. All Greek people? A random selection? Note also that limiting entries to people for whom there are articles in Wiuikipedia is standard for a wide range of lists, as it's about the only way easily to limit the list to notable people. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 22:20, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Anyone can edit any article, regardless how much effort or time other editors spent on it. Anyway, of course it should be "Notable Greek people", as obviously anyone listed on Wikipedia or who has an article has to be notable. We don't need consensus of any sort because this isn't about the opinions of Wikipedia editors, which are irrelevant (in fact, too much of Wikipedia seems to be decided because three or four editors agreed to it, when almost any argument can be solved using our basic policies). The whole point is we can only report what reliable sources have said - so if a reliable source gave a summary like the one we had for "Greek", we could include that as description, but we can't come up with our own criteria for inclusion or our own descriptions if the list is explicitly titled "List of Greeks". Using the policies, the only criteria we can possibly have, aside from notability, is that the people listed have actually been described as "Greek" by reliable sources. Is there a policy against using red links? Some red linked people are certainly notable (just as some people with articles are not), and just haven't had a Wikipedia article about them yet (this can especially be true with foreign people); in fact, a red link on a page like this - for a notable person - can encourage someone to write an article about them. If there's no policy forbidding red links, then I don't see how we can put in instructions forbidding them here. Mad Jack 22:33, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Mel, please don't say I am mudding anything thank you very much. I am also my own editor as well, just happens that I am interested in bios and ethnicity currently.....WHAT is this a list of??? WHY are Greek Americans on this list if they already have their own list. IMveryHO, A list of Greeks should be a list of people who are of Greek nationality. Is that really so bizzare or complicated. Again, take my example of Pete Sampras, he might be of Greek descent, but he is considered to be American or if you like Greek-American.Maybe we can get more people to comment in here?? Thanks! --Tom 00:37, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Jack. I will help him by deleting any name that is not sourced to a reputable source that states that the person concerned is Greek. See List of British Jews for in-depth discussion of the issues and how the policies of Wikipedia apply.

As an example, you can include Pete Sampras if and only if you provide a source that describes him as Greek. Not "of Greek ancestry". Not "has a Greek father". Not "Greek-American".

I agree that the list should not include redlinks. The argument for including them is that someone might write the article. The argument against is that they haven't so there is no more reason to list the person than any other Greek. Grace Note 05:14, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

I think the subject of red links should probably be discussed and decided upon on some policy page, so having/not having them would be a clear policy across all lists/articles/etc. Mad Jack 08:01, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] List of GREEKS right??

What is going on?? Seriously! I moved Aniston to US section. WHY is there a US section or ANY other nationality section in the first place??. They have or should have their own list. I ate a Gerro(sp) and watched My Big Fat Greek Wedding this morning. Besides having no notability, do I belong on the list?? Seriously, the Greek pride is wonderful, very touching, but we/I/you/somebody HAS to come up with a defintion of "Greeks" ie, born there or citizen of or whatever can be decided on. This is the same problem with "List of British Jews", "List of anti-semetic people", List of Poles" on and on and on and on.... --Tom 14:29, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

OR, forget the definition since this too will be subjective, AGAIN, provide a FEW RELIABLE sources that say JOE SMOE is Greek. PERIOD. Then include them. NO original research. NO Greek pride. NO but this person feels like they are XXX, ect, ect. WHY oh WHY is it SO DAM important that Aniston/Sampras/I don't care who/ is INCLUDED in this list??? The reason for me that its so DAM inportant that they AREN'T included in the list is because it appears their inclusion is AGENDA driven. Sorry for NOT assuming good faith but I am a pretty jadded guy. I don't care if your intentions are good OR bad, leave them at the door and lets edits this and ALL lists based on 110% certainty that the individual belongs on the list. If there is even a question, JUST LEAVE THEM OFF for now UNTIL it can be established (on the talk page) beyond refute that they should belong. OK rip away it me....--Tom 14:39, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
Whoa... Let's calm down a little here people... As far as I can tell, Greek suggests that the person is born in Greece (regardless of where they live now). American Greek suggests that the person is an American of Greek descent. Does anyone/everyone agree with my definition? By my definition Jennifer Aniston is a Greek American. And it's Gyro. :) --Dakart 00:28, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
By the way - By my definition Spiro Agnew, Dukakis... all need to be moved to the American Greeks list... We need to come to a consensus on this. --Dakart 00:33, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
Hi Dakart, your posts makes alot of sense, therefore you should LEAVE immediately, j/k BIG SMILE. I would also add persons that are Greek nationals ie current citizens or citizens when they gain their notoriaty. I also use WP:MOSBIO as a good guide for editing biographies. What does their bio call them?? If it calls them Greek in the header get them in here otherwise leave them out. So yes, MOVE THE GREEK AMERICANS to their own list that already exists. Another way as mention before is to cite what other sources reffer to the person as. Thanks, ps my spelling SUCKSSS!! --Tom 00:41, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Heads up

I am doing some house cleaning. Just as an explaination I am looking at the people on this list via POP UPS. If their bio DOESN'T say they are Greek, I am removing them. In my edit summary I am saying "not Greek". Please do not take offense, I understand that they might be of Greek descent or have Greek parents, ect. If somebody was born in Greece or is in question, I am trying to leave them on. Like the list of political folks seems very interesting, ie Prince Philip. Anyways, again do not be offended, just trying to make this a list of people who are identified as being Greek by THE most reliable source.....WIKIPEDIA :) Thanks! --Tom 15:02, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Philippousis

Philippousis should be kept in as he regards himself as both greek and australian ( have a look at the article for that).

Read article. Header says Austrialian. Period. To say it needs work is an understatement. It has ZERO sources. The article should be nuked and started over. I'll see if I can recruit somebody to work on it. See Stanisława Walasiewicz to see how an article can go from ZERO sources, I didn't believe a word of it before I researched her/him/err whatever to how the article stands now. Check it out for an interesting read.... Thanks! --Tom 23:41, 1 June 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Athletes

"Panogottis Geou, an all round athelete unless he eats"

i don't belive he is a real athlete. should we delete that entry agmpinia 03:03, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree - without any documentary evidence (or even trivia website mention!) this entry should be deleted. Kitb 07:41, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Comments at top of article

These two comments were at the top of the article, one visible:

<NB: Name 'scientist' is mis-spelt (rHS) - this has led to some confusion on the Talk page>

I removed them because that kind of editorial comment really belongs here. They seem to have been there for a while? Cheers Dina 21:14, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removal of dubious person

The addition of the person Ilias Tsagaris, genius, has got to be a prank entry. I have therefore deleted it. --216.8.175.100 21:55, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Greek Journalist keeps getting deleted

Please add the article Iason Athanasiadis to your watchlist. Someone keeps doing a speedy delete on the article for no reason.--Zereshk 00:55, 28 June 2007 (UTC)