Talk:List of Formula One fatal accidents

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Contents

[edit] List

this page is list and need to be fixed don´t delete it.—Preceding unsigned comment added by The Tramp (talk • contribs)

It says on the article that drivers who died in testing accidents are not listed. But Peter Revson died in a testing accident at Kyalami. Though the GP was to take place on the 30th April, the test session that Revson was killed in took place on the 22nd and was not part of the GP event itself. As such, his name should be removed as per the conditions of the article. Lec CRP1 18:45, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

I think all fatal accidents should be on the list. However, the original data only had drivers killed during GPs, so I put that in the opening sentence to avoid confusion. I'll remove the sentence and add an incomplete tag.--Diniz 19:42, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
Ok, how about Jo Siffert? He died in an F1 car in an F1 race, just not in a race that counted towards the F1 Championship? Lec CRP1 19:32, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
If you have all the data, then put it in - I didn't compile the original list, and there are some drivers missing.--Diniz 20:16, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Archie Scott-Brown and Alberto Ascari died during testing also—Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.114.105.16 (talk • contribs)

Yes, but they weren't driving F1 cars.--Diniz 11:01, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

How about Bill Vukovich, it was on 1955 Indy 500 which was part of F1 championship? --Sporti 08:19, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Actually if u look at List of Indianapolis 500 deaths there are more

During race:

Drivers killed during testing, practice or qualifications:

--Sporti 11:01, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ricardo Rodriguez

Is there any reason why the link for Ricardo Rodriguez ("Mexican Grand Prix") links to the circuit rather than the race, like most of the others do? --DH85868993 11:09, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

The Mexican Grand Prix was a non-championship event in 1962 and doesn't have its own article.--Diniz 11:59, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
Of course. Thanks. --DH85868993 13:21, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

The race now has its own article which is linked to this list. DH85868993 07:30, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Notes

At the moment, I'm trying to promote this article to FL standards. So I've decided to removed any notes detailing anything involving how the driver died. Exceptions to this rule are Stacey and Bristow, who both died during the same GP, so I assume that some may think they both died in the same accident. The only time you should add a note should be when:

  • A spectator (or marshal) died in the accident as well.
  • The driver didn't die "on the spot".
  • If the driver was driving a privateer entry, see Piers Courage as an example.

If there is any other exceptions let me know. Otherwise, let me know if this is okay.--Skully Collins Edits 11:21, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Alan Stacey and Chris Bristow were killed in separate accidents during the 1960 Belgian Grand Prix. According to [www.forix.com/8w/bristow-stacey.html 8W]'s web page briefing on the 1960 Belgian GP:

On the next day, during the race, Bristow was embroiled in an aggressive dice for sixth place with the Ferraris of Wolfgang von Trips and wild Willy Mairesse when, on the 20th lap, he made what appeared to be an unforced error at Burnenville. The apple green Cooper rolled over several times, decapitating him in the process. Clark, in his first season of F1 for Lotus, nearly struck his body where it lay...Two laps later Stacey, lying seventh, crashed at 140mph. Though his Lotus burned, there was sufficient evidence to convince his mechanics that he had been struck in the face by a bird.

As I recall, the book Grand Prix! (Volume 1) says the same thing. Formulanone.one.two 18:11, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Mike Spence

Mike Spence was killed during testing of a USAC Champ car, he was not testing a Formula One car.
Formulanone 08:10, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

He was killed at Indianapolis, and at the time the Lotus 56 was an Indianapolis car - it was later raced in Formula One, though. -- Ian Dalziel 14:18, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
I'm with Formulanone - the Lotus 56 Spence was testing was not a legal F1 car. Pratt & Whitney had to build a new (smaller) "3 litre-equivalent" turbine engine for use in the 1971 F1 Lotus 56B. DH85868993 07:17, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
I've removed Spence from the list. DH85868993 03:12, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ronnie Peterson

Do we need a note that Peterson died the day after the accident and the cause of his death was actually an embolism which poisoned his blood? Lemon martini 22:47, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, according to the guidelines specified by Skully Collins in the "Notes" section above. So, I've added one. Note that I didn't go into a great deal of detail about the exact cause of death. DH85868993 08:16, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
I think we could wind up with a forest of notes if we need one for every case where the driver was pronounced dead only after being taken to hospital. At a quick glance that would apply to Mark Donohue and Ayrton Senna as well, for instance. -- Ian Dalziel 12:33, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Race Marshal

At some point in the last few years (not sure of the season) a marshal was killed by flying debris at a point when no driver was injured. Shouldn't this be included? Paul (paulthompson2k@hotmail.com)

EDIT: Sorry have just clicked about the whole 'driving a F1 car' thing...

However for the sake of comparison it might be useful to show that due to the increase in driver protection the people most at risk are not actually in the cars? Paul

[edit] Inclusion of Indianapolis races in this list

This list claims to be a "list of all drivers who have died as a result of a crash while driving a Formula One car". I don't believe it's correct to describe the car in which Pat O'Connor died as a Formula One car. [In 1958, Formula One engine size was limited 2.5 litres, whereas (I'm 99% sure) the engine in O'Connor's car would have been a 4.2 litre Offy.] Personally, I think all the Indianapolis cars should be removed from this list, since these cars were designed and built as ChampCars, not Formula One cars, even though from 1950-1953 they may have complied with the Formula One regulations (they would have been OK on engine size, but I'm not sure whether they would have complied with all the Formula One regulations). DH85868993 06:42, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

The description of the list has now been updated to indicate that it includes all WDC events, which means that including the Indy races is now correct. - DH85868993 12:30, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Gerhard Mitter

As specified in the note, Mitter was driving a Formula Two car and should therefore not be included in this list of drivers "who have died as a result of a crash while driving a Formula One car." Note that one option would be to redefine the list as a list of drivers "who have died during or in preparation for a World Championship event", in which case he would still qualify. (Although then you would have to question the inclusion of drivers such as Depailler and De Angelis, i.e. does a private test count as "preparation for a World Championship event"?) DH85868993 07:48, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Description of list has been updated, so Mitter's inclusion is now appropriate. - DH85868993 12:31, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Charles de Tornaco

I strongly suspect that Charles de Tornaco was driving a Formula Two Ferrari 500 when he died and should therefore not be included in this list of drivers "who have died as a result of a crash while driving a Formula One car." DH85868993 07:52, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Maybe your right. But sadly, the list can't be changed unless you have a reference to de Toranco's death not being in an Formula One car. If that proves to be the case, then I'm sorry. But in my defense, a lot of sites are very vague when it comes to what drivers were driving, especially when it comes to drivers in the 1950s.--Skully Collins Edits 08:02, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Note for Villeneuve?

With respect to the guideline specified in the "Notes" section above that there should be a note if the driver didn't die "on the spot", I'm pretty sure I've read reports that Villeneuve wasn't killed instantly, but survived for as long as 3 days(?) after his accident. Does anyone have a reliable source confirming/disputing this? DH85868993 08:19, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

All the sources I can find say that he died in hospital in the evening of the same day, for example [1], [2] and the Gilles Villeneuve article itself.--Diniz 13:32, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
I've added a note saying that Villeneuve died in hospital later the same day. - DH85868993 12:11, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

If you read the section of Gilles Villeneuve in 'Murray Walker's formula 1 heroes' book, it says that he was 'thrown out of his car and killed instantly. Pattav2 09:04, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] On the list name

How about 'Drivers who have died as a result of accidents during the course of a Formula One Championship event or whilst driving a Formula One car'? That covers Formula 2 cars in F1 races and drivers who died in testing,non-Championship races and Indy? Lemon martini 13:52, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Description updated - DH85868993 12:32, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] List of deaths of Formula One drivers not KIAed

I'm thinking we should have a list of Formula One drivers not killed while racing or at practice? This will open up the floor to the likes of Jim Clark. --121.6.40.89 09:17, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Non-driver deaths

It has been brought up a few times before, but I'm not sure this has really been discussed. I suggest adding a section on people other than drivers dying, such as track marshals (Jansen van Vuuren, Paolo Ghislimberti) and pit crew. Any thoughts? AecisBrievenbus 18:58, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

I think non-driver deaths are worth a section in this article. No need for major details of each incident, but a mention of the worst would be a relevant addition. Bretonbanquet 19:05, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Partial list:

Person Date of accident Race Circuit Role
Flag of South Africa Frederik Jansen Van Vuuren March 5, 1977 1977 South African Grand Prix Kyalami Marshall
April 27, 1975 1975 Spanish Grand Prix Montjuïc circuit Photographer
Fireman
Spectator
Spectator
Flag of Italy Giovanni Amadeo 1981 Belgian Grand Prix Zolder Mechanic
Flag of Italy Paolo Ghislimberti 2000 Italian Grand Prix Monza Marshall
Flag of Australia Graham Beveridge March 4, 2001 2001 Australian Grand Prix Melbourne Grand Prix Circuit Marshall

AlexJ (talk) 21:21, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Wasn't there non-driver deaths at Wolfgang von Trip's fatal accident, Alex? --Phill talk Edits Review this GA review! 10:50, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
According to the Argentine Grand Prix article, there were also nine non-driver fatalities at the 1953 Argentine Grand Prix.--Diniz(talk) 12:34, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
Also two killed by Gilles Villeneuve's accident at the 1977 Japanese Grand Prix and a marshal killed by a flying wheel at the 1962 Monaco Grand Prix (I'm pretty sure I have a book at home which has his name).--Diniz(talk) 12:38, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
It's gets a little depressing sometimes to read so many dead, doesn't it? Anyway, take your time finding the book Diniz, the article defines the list as "drivers who have died while driving a Formula One car" only, so technically the list is correct atm although I would still like to see this extra list as well. :-) --Phill talk Edits Review this GA review! 21:19, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Raymond Sommer

Sommer seems to have been killed driving a Cooper-JAP in a Formula 2 race - so he shouldn't really be in this list? -- Ian Dalziel 12:38, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Indeed. This page suggests it was actually a Formula 3 race. I have removed him from the list. DH85868993 02:50, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Carl Scarborough and some others--included wrongly?

Does this driver actually belong on this list? According to his biography article, he didn't actually suffer a fatal accident, but rather died of heat exhaustion after finishing the race in question. Rdfox 76 (talk) 22:43, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Continuing to look over the article, I see that Ivor Bueb was killed testing a Formula Two car, not an F1 car, as well. Rdfox 76 (talk) 23:13, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Eugenio Castellotti

I think he was killed while testing a Ferrari sports car before Sebring, not a Ferrari F1. Woodcote (talk) 17:32, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Jean-Pierre Wimille

And what about Wimille? The Buenos Aires GP was a F1 race. Woodcote (talk) 19:00, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

The race was in 1949, so isn't technically part of the Formula One World Championship.-- Diniz (talk) 19:24, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
I've added a further caveat to the lead paragraph to clarify things.-- Diniz (talk) 19:27, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
Another thing is that this list does not include drivers killed driving Formula One cars in non-Championship F1 races. It might be worth clarifying that too . Bretonbanquet (talk) 19:29, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
Done.-- Diniz (talk) 19:36, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
Eh? When was there a decision to exclude non-championship races? You'll have to delete Schell and Siffert - and logically all the testing accidents - if that is to be the case. -- Ian Dalziel (talk) 19:44, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
Sorry, I was running on automatic pilot earlier. I've reverted myself...-- Diniz (talk) 19:57, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
I don't understand why drivers killed in F1 races before 1950 could not be added (the championship was created in 1950 but Formula 1 was created in 1947 and the title is F1 fatal accidents), whereas drivers killed in non-championship races after 1950 or during private tests could. It seems quite arbitrary and illogical. Woodcote (talk) 20:09, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
I agree. -- Ian Dalziel (talk) 20:58, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
I think the problem seems to lie in the fact that the list only includes drivers from the list of usual subjects, i.e. the guys who entered WDC races. It needs to be extended to the three seasons of F1 prior to the first World Championship, and to those drivers who were killed in F1 races but never started a WDC race. This same issue also applies to the List of Formula One drivers article, which purports to be a full list of drivers who entered an F1 race. Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:09, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

To answer Woodcote's question, Wimille was not included because it was in 1949, which was before Formula One was "born", if you like. So if he died in a race that occurred before 1950, how can the car he was driving be defined as a Formula One car? ;-) -- Phill

That's not quite correct: Formula One was defined in 1946 and the first Formula One races were held in 1947. It's only the World Championship which didn't start until 1950. DH85868993 (talk) 22:49, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
Argh! Forgot to sign my comment! Well I guess you learn something new everday, I guess. But I think my point still stands that when someone refers to Formula One they think of the World Championship - although if you wish to find drivers who had died in Formula One cars before 1950 then please be my guest. ;-) --Phill talk Edits Review this GA review! 11:07, 29 May 2008 (UTC)