Talk:List of Dragonlance deities

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Contents

[edit] Krynn's Constellations

Why was the following image removed? Its relevnat to the article, especially since Krynn's Gods watch down on the planet, and when they come down to the planet, their constellation leaves the heavens until they return to the outer planes.--Azathar 04:19, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

Image:Nightsky.gif

I moved the image to Night Sky of Krynn, as I felt it would be more useful there. -- Alex Nisnevich (talk) 20:23, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Moving page

I suggest moving this page to List of Dragonlance deities, to match the syntax of the other lists in the Dragonlance topic (List of Dragonlance artifacts, List of Dragonlance characters, List of Dragonlance creatures and List of Dragonlance locations). -- ReyBrujo 20:41, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

I would agree.ddcc 21:40, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
Done.ddcc 03:03, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Stubs

Nearly all the articles on the gods have stubs, so what more is needed about them? If we could take all the god-related stubs off we'd put a serious dent in the dragonlance stubs category. DoomsDay349 00:11, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

What is the problem? The idea is to have that category empty at all times ;-) The stub warnings have been added a lot of time ago, so if they are already good enough so that anyone can understand them, just remove the stub. -- ReyBrujo 03:47, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] A few ideas

While I was doing the new work on this page I was just thinking about a couple things...mainly, that a number of the god articles could be merged here. Some are so short that they are entirely comprised within their new subsection. So we can talk that out here, I was also thinking, perhaps there should be a Gods of Magic section, as the gods of magic do not generally work with the other gods of their alignment, rather with each other. DoomsDay349 21:26, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merging

Would anyone dispute it if I merged several god articles here, as they are quite short? DoomsDay349 16:41, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

I have reviewed the god articles, and these are the ones I suggest merging:

The two I already merged I felt I could do so uncontroversially, however I wanted to get some feedback on these others. DoomsDay349 21:39, 20 September 2006 (UTC) Merged or deleted? I see no info on the merged dieties. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.63.233.81 (talk) 21:32, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Cleaning up

As I now have both Holy Orders of the Stars and the Dragonlance Campaign Setting, what would be your suggestions for cleaning up this list? What should be our model for the entries? DoomsDay349 21:28, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

You might as well be bold and we can discuss them later. I've never had a single Campaign Setting in my life, so I don't know what to tell you. Ddcc 05:51, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup (April 2007)

Needs cleanup as exemplified by "not entirely sure, but i think Gilean, Sage of Neutrality has removed himself from Krynn to preserve the balance, which is the point of the forces of neutrality. if anyone can confirm would be great" under Balance. Doesn't look like it needs a lot of work. ~EnviroboyTalkContribs - 05:42, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

No, Gilean is still around. There's some debate as to whether or not that will work out but the final novel of the Dark Disciple trilogy is likely to solve it (Note that that statement is my opinion and should not be placed in the article). As a matter of fact I can work on this article now as I have my Holy Orders of the Stars and Dragonlance Campaign Setting on me right now. DoomsDay349 18:57, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Most of The Article is Wrong

If any one of you has read Dragons Of A Vanished Moon, you would know that most of the article is wrong. At the end of Dragon Of a Vanished Moon Pladine writes about all the gods of Krynn, the All Saints War, and all about Choas and his falling from grace. it also speaks of the High God, and the creation of all the gods, and how the gods became devided, I will begin to edit the page myself, using Vanished Moon as a guide, but I dont want a lot of hard work being deleted. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sovernlance (talk • contribs).

Feel free to do so. Note that, as far as canon goes, apparently most of that information has been superseded by newer books. -- ReyBrujo 03:38, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
Firstly, do not change the article with information about Chaos falling from grace, etc., etc. That is non canon, from the now officially wrong Dragons of a Vanished Moon. This article uses information from the definitive, most recent source on the gods of Krynn, Holy Orders of the Stars. While not everything before the book is wrong, this book finally clears up everything on the deities, and you can trust me on that everything in the book is correct. DoomsDay349 00:30, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Well considering Vanished mon was wriiten be Weis and Hickman, the original two creators of the whole sereis, it's fairly logical to go with that instead of Holy Order of the stars.--Sovernlance 18:31, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Wrong. Margaret as a matter of fact owns the company that published the Holy Orders of the Stars. She ordained the content. I can, if you really want me to, get a game designer to confirm that Holy Orders is the definitive source. A lot of what was written in MW/TH books is not exactly accurate. What you find in today's Margaret Weis Productions game books is the definitive source. DoomsDay349 20:08, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Todays *Sovreign Press Game Books* not Dragonlance saga--Sovernlance 00:52, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Correct. The game books published by Margaret Weis Productions (owned by Margaret Weis) following the 3.5 edition D&D rules are the definitive sources on Dragonlance. DoomsDay349 00:53, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Dragonlance games or books? --Sovernlance 01:01, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

They publish the gaming books, under the permission and review of Wizards of the Coast, who publish the novels. DoomsDay349 01:08, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Then these articles are for the games not the novels, and that should be stated as to not confuse other people.--Sovernlance 01:12, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

No, they're for the Dragonlance universe as a whole. The gaming material are part of the novel universe, and vice versa. Novels that deal with gods in the future will follow the standards of Holy Orders of the Stars. DoomsDay349 01:14, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

If these articles incorperate the novels then the novels should be used as a scource, instead of just using the game books from Soverign press

The book Holy Orders of the Stars is the only definitive source, for the novels and the games, and the information in Dragons of a Vanished Moon in regards to the High God is incorrect. DoomsDay349 01:17, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

IF the article is being created by books that are references for the games, then the article should be labled as such, and someone should take the steps to make an article concerning the novels and use the novels themselves as a reference, as the original articles on Dragonlance did.--Sovernlance 01:21, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm telling you Dragonlance games and novels are not separate. Holy Orders of the Stars is the only, novel or not, book that defines Dragonlance gods, and if you create an article using the novels as a source, I will redirect it. The Dragons of a Vanished Moon appendix is no longer recognized. You know how? It's not published anymore. Get a paperback copy of that book, it's not in there. Wizards of the Coast no longer recognizes it. DoomsDay349 01:23, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

And if you get a hardcover copy it is... whats your point.--Sovernlance 01:28, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

My point is that the paperback edition, which is the newer edition, does not contain an appendix because Wizards of the Coast has dismissed it as entirely false. DoomsDay349 01:29, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Even if that is true, (which i can not attest it being true or false) your talking about the Publishing Co. what about the Authors, and what they consider to be true.--Sovernlance 01:36, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm not taking either side, but see Dragonlance Nexus for why it was cut out of paperback, and Wizards Board where "Holy Orders of the Stars redefines Chaos and removes the Ionthas/fallen god references introduced in the Appendix to Dragons of a Vanished Moon." and "Chaos in the Appendix is a god of an order one step above the others, a somewhat Miltonian Lucifer-like figure - once the most beautiful and powerful of the gods, but cast out and fallen, to be replaced by Takhisis. Compare this also to Morgoth/Melkur in Tolkien's Silmarillion. Chaos in Holy Orders of the Stars is the equal of the High God, the formless vastness from which all things were created. An aspect of this cosmic principle was trapped within the Graygem, but Chaos itself is far too unfathomable and beyond the ken of mortals to be fully contained. If left to its own devices, the universe would eventually break down and become reunited with Chaos, especially if the High God's order were not laid down upon it by the gods and by mortals who drive the world forward." and "Although I rather liked the version in the appendix to Dragons of a Vanished Moon, I think this makes a lot more sense in view of how Chaos was portrayed in Summer Flame. This way, he can still be the Father of All and Nothing without necessarily supplanting the role of the High God. The problem now is, if the appendix isn't the truth, then that makes Paladine a liar... Unless we just pretend that the DoaVM appendix never existed..." Ddcc 06:14, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
Having spoken to Cam Banks, a game designer for Margaret Weis Productions, I can tell you that indeed the appendix is false. It doesn't make Paladine (Valthonis) a liar; officially, the Appendix didn't happen. That's why it's not in the paperback. DoomsDay349 16:45, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Fine Sorry for having wasted your time.--Sovernlance 18:36, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

It's quite alright. Never feel like you shouldn't speak up about something; if you're right, then the article is improved; if you're wrong, well, then you learned something!  :) Hope to see you contributing more to Wikipedia! DoomsDay349 23:28, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

If that appendix never happened are Palidine and Thakisis still gods or is Palidine still an Elf and Thakisis still dead?--Sovernlance 01:29, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

What is contained within the novel Dragons of a Vanished Moon is correct; however, the appendix is now non canon. Takhisis and Paladine are still both cast down, and Takhisis has still been slain. Paladine also continues to walk the world as an elf, Valthonis. DoomsDay349 01:32, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reverted All recent edits

A lot of the edits made by an IP are outdated information, and everything has been reverted. Believe me, Holy Orders of the Stars is the definitive source on the gods. Anything contradictory to it is non canon. Especially, and I cannot stress this enough, what was previously known about the High God and Chaos. The appendix of "Dragons of a Vanished Moon" not "Dragons of Winter Night", as incorrectly sourced, is completely non canonical.. Don't put that information back in. DoomsDay349 00:34, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Incorrect recent revision?

In the section on Solinari, "He once dwelled" was reverted to "He once dwells", which is grammatically incorrect. The past tense seems correct, since it is referring to where he dwelled previously. Or perhaps the spell-check here prefers "dwelt".

In the section on Zeboim, it has been reverted to "Zeboim is the daughter of Takhisis and Zeboim." Unless Zeboim is indeed the daughter of herself, this should be edited.

70.112.12.20 20:27, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

I meant the first revision, did the second one get in there with it? I'll fix it. I have a better way of wording it, but all fiction should be in present tense, for the future. DoomsDay349 20:28, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
OK, all fixed. Any other problems you see? DoomsDay349 20:30, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] One list or many articles?

A few days ago I was involved in a discussion with User:Cynehelm about the recent redirecting of the articles on the various gods of Dragonlance. As I'm sure you are aware I redirected them all here and cleaned them, and Cynehelm undid a few redirects prior to our discussion. We came to the conclusion that we would halt further action until we had a community discussion on the matter. I originally felt that the individual gods' of Dragonlance were not notable enough for their own articles, but I am beginning to feel that maybe well referenced and cleaned versions could exist (note that during the discussion I don't believe I had this idea in mind, but I've thought about it some). Cynehelm is in favor of recreating all the 21 articles. In either event what's important is that they're referenced and useful. What I'm interested in knowing is what the community thinks about it and how we should proceed with this. Thanks for your feedback. DoomsDay349 16:11, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

If you can keep it in a list that's got enough accurate content and isn't a gigantic thing, then you might as well keep it in a list. If, however, you later add sections on each god, such as history, image, etc, to expand information, then it would be best to move it into an article to avoid cluttering up the list. Ddcc 17:51, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
Anyone else have feedback on this? I'm still trying to decide on what to do with this one. Thanks. DoomsDay349 15:27, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
Personally, I would always prefer individual articles for main characters (and you could say that, at least, Paladine, Mishakal and Takhisis are main characters). -- ReyBrujo 01:21, 12 June 2007 (UTC)