Talk:List of Buffy the Vampire Slayer episodes

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Former FLC List of Buffy the Vampire Slayer episodes is a former featured list candidate. Please view the link under Article milestones below to see why the nomination failed. Once the objections have been addressed you may resubmit the article for featured list status.
This Buffyverse-related article is part of WikiProject Buffyverse, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Buffy, Angel & the rest of the Buffyverse. You can help! Visit the project page, episode checklist or discuss an article at the project talk-page.
Buffy Portal


Please help complete the Angel/Buffy episode articles. See what needs to be done on this sub-page of WikiProject Buffy:

Wikipedia:WikiProject Buffy/Episodes

Also please help update any major changes made to episode articles on that page so that progress can be mapped.

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Contents

[edit] Synopses

Thanks to the following for allowing use of their synopses on wikipedia:

[edit] Inca Mummy Girl redirect

Somehow, "Inca Mummy Girl" has been bent so it is redirected to the main Buffy page. I'm not sure how that happened, and even less how to undo it, but this doesn't seem to be right. -- Wolf Deunan 21:07, Jul 14, 2004 (UTC)

  • Agreed. It was redirected by User:Lucky 6.9 because of, I presume, bad writing. I'll restore and clean it up. -- Wapcaplet 03:41, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Quick links back to listing

I find annoying the lack of a quick link back from every episode to the episode listing by season. The link to the category doesn't seem the best one. --Doppelgängland 14:18, Jul 14, 2005 (GMT)

Agreed. If only someone'd go thru all the pages now to fix that. On a related note, the link to the List is included only near the top of the article for each episode. I wish constantly that there were a more prominent link, such as in the sidebar. Xiner 23:51, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Season numbering

I've changed the season numbering from the use of textual numbers to the digits themselves, for two reasons:

  • It isn't as visually discomfiting, since the eye is more accustomed to seeing order in the sequence "1-2-3-4-5-6-7" than, as the old brain-teaser goes, "O-T-T-F-F-S-S".
  • It avoids the frequent arguments about excessive capitalization in headings, in which far too many people simply ignore the long-standing, apparently universally cross-project MediaWiki style standard of sentence capitalization.

~ Jeff Q (talk) 08:27, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Spoilers in summaries

Before editing the page any further, I realized I should ask veterans here first. Should the episode summaries here give away the plot/ending? I find it useful to have an episode listing that doesn't reveal much (like this) and episode pages that tell all. -- xiner, Feb. 2006

I agree that not too much should be given away -- Paxomen 04:13, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, my bad. My friend Pallescere and I were the ones editing the pages. I just did season 7 and I tried to make the summaries less spoilery, lol. :) Binthemix 08:40, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
Sorry I then butchered your work...I was actually referring to the S1-S4 summaries originally. Thanks a lot for improving the page, though. I wouldn't have attempted it. Xiner 00:34, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Buffy Body Count

A link to the appropriate Buffy Body Count page within each episode page would be useful. A huge undertaking, too.

[edit] Screenshots as fair use

In order to resolve the long standing debate over fair use of screenshots on List of Lost episodes, I am now trying to resolve the issue under the belief that the issue is an opinionated matter and not a matter of policy. Talk:List of Lost episodes#Fair use criteria number 8. I ask that people share their comments, but please try to keep the conversation in this section focused.

One thing that works against us is that the conversation tries to defend too many points at once. Try not to respond to comments about other aspects of the debate, and just take this one step at a time. Basically, respond if you think this is an opinionated matter regarding policy point 8 of WP:FUC or not.

I believe if we can break through on the issue of point 8, the rest will fall into place. -- Ned Scott 08:11, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Help needed in Justice League Unlimited

If somebody is interested in Justice League Unlimited, please go to the List of Justice League episodes to help fix that page, meet this one's high quality standarts.Some users refuse to expand info and create article per episodes, even though they know the existence of the wikiproject and well developed pages like the sub-articles here.--T-man, the wise 02:25, 2 July 2006 (UTC)--T-man, the wise 02:16, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Images

There's no consensus that images aren't allowed, so removing them without discussing is a bad idea. If it's ever going to be a featured list, it will probably be a version with images. - Peregrinefisher 19:55, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Featured list status

I sincerely apologize for the lazy work done on the episode descriptions. In the following month, I will create a spoiler-free list, improve all fair use image rationales, and finally finish the episode descriptions then submit it again on FLC. Michaelas10 (T|C) 16:46, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Buffy/Angel Crossovers

Could we get a listing of all of the BtVS/AtS crossovers, like in the List of Angel episodes? I was looking for the corresponding episode to Chosen, since Angel obviously crosses back over for the finale, and I realized that there are no crossover listings (such as for "Pangs") on this page at all. Zekintha 12:02, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Moving articles

( [Moved discussion to Episode naming dispute, so that all discussion on the same topic in one place ) - Paxomen 12:03, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Crossover actors

Does anyone know the actors who have appeared in Angel, Firefly, and Buffy? If this is somewhere in Buffyverse I can't find it! thanks, ~M —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Margeeolio (talk • contribs) 00:19, 18 December 2006 (UTC).

Nobody from Angel and Buffy appeared on Firefly, and vice-versa. No characters originating on Angel appeared on Buffy. However, several characters from Buffy have been seen on Angel, and those include the following:

David Boreanaz "Angel" Charisma Carpenter "Cordelia" James Marsters "Spike" Alexis Denisof "Wesley" Mercedes McNab "Harmony" Sarah Michelle Gellar "Buffy" Alyson Hannigan "Willow" Tom Lenk "Andrew" Eliza Dushku "Faith" Seth Green "Oz" Julie Benz "Darla" Juliet Landau "Drusilla"

and I also heard that Michelle Trachtenberg's Dawn was seen in an episode of Angel. I haven't quite seen every episode of Angel, so I don't know for sure. —Preceding unsigned comment added by OLTL2002 (talk • contribs) 02:52, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Episode info

Maybe it's just me, but I swear in the last few months a bunch of the individual episode pages have lost a ton of really good info. It's like somebody went on a crusade to rid these pages of anything even slightly skewed in one direction or another. For example, several episodes used to have blurbs about them being considered one of the best or worst in the show's history by either the show stadd or a large community of fans, complete with links to the articles citing these ratings. Now? Nothing. The article for "I, Robot" used to have a blurb about how it was almost universally considered one of the weaker episodes in the series, and included links to other examples, and even had links to interviews with Whedon, producers and writers where they backed up their opinions. Now? All gone.

I've been looking at Buffyverse episode pages and it seems like EVERY single one has been neutered to the point of uselessnes. Whoopee, I can read an overly detailed plot synopsis, but I can't read about well-documented behind-the-scenes drama, even when it directly influenced what we ended up seeing onscreen? I call bullshit.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.17.196.61 (talk • contribs)

The "I Robot, You Jane" article had a comment about how the crew regularly poked fun at the episode in interviews. It did not have any links to these interviews or evidence that they'd occurred. The claim sat there unsourced for eleven months, and then I removed it. If other, similar comments have been removed from episode pages, then it's likely they were equally unsourced. If you've got "links to interviews with Whedon, producers and writers where they backed up their opinions" then that kind of info is absolutely appropriate for the page. We've just not had those sources before. --Nalvage 14:35, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

The Buffy Episode descriptions can be very fannish, particularly in the Arc Significance Section. Editorial comments, like "this is recognized by fans as one of the worst episodes." are inappropriate for an encyclopedia entry.24.165.188.30 13:19, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Removal of non-free images

Several users (myself included, now) have removed all the screenshots and DVD cover art from this article based on the official Wikipedia:Non-free content criteria policy. Several anonymous users have been attempting to restore them claiming, when they bother to include an edit summary at all, that "consensus has not been reached on this issue". The problem is not one of consensus, as there will always be folks who willingly ignore copyright law. To stem the tide of non-free material added simply because it's easy and interesting, without regard to copyright issues, there is now a cross-project effort to remove all non-free material unless it passes all ten of the criteria listed in the aforementioned policy page.

To be specific, use of screenshots and DVD cover art in "List of X episodes" articles violate the following clauses:

3. Minimal use. As little non-free content as possible is used in an article. Short rather than long video and audio excerpts are used. Multiple items are not used if one will suffice. None is used if one is not necessary.
  • Proponents have failed to make a solid case for why screenshots are necessary for episode lists.
5. Significance. Non-free content contributes significantly to an article (e.g., it identifies the subject of an article, or illustrates specific, relevant points or sections in the text); it does not serve a purely decorative purpose.
  • Proponents have failed to demonstrate how images in an episode-list article "illustrate specific, relevant points" and are not just "decorative". Furthermore, they do not identify the subject, but (in this case) merely 150 or so sub-topics of the subject.

There may be other violations for specific images, like proper image description pages (#10), but these two are pretty much nails in the coffin, regardless of how strenously folks argue for these popular additions to the episode lists. We must remember that non-free material must be considered not only in the context of Wikipedia, but also of any downstream use (including commercial use) of its content, which requires the more strict burden of justification that the Wikimedia Board is requiring these days.

This removal is apparently taking place across all episode list articles. As a cross-project initiative, it should not require a consensus for each TV-show article editing group. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 04:30, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Anonymous editors trying to restore the non-free material continue to make arguments unsupported by specific information or links to discussions in the edit summaries (e.g., "This Issue is currently being discussed by the Admin" [sic]). Unless they choose to participate in this discussion by providing such evidence HERE, in the talk page where it belongs, other editors should feel free to summarily revert these attempts. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 10:57, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Season 8, 9 and 10

What are these seasons??

Season eight is a comic. Seasons nine and ten are non-existent, and the mention of them was added by a vandal. --Nalvage 02:49, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] First Episode Air-Date

There's some disagreement over whether it was March 3rd or March 10th. User OLTL2002 added the March 3rd date, and it's apparently from the season one DVD. TV.com gives March 10th. A Google search for: Buffy "Welcome to the Hellmouth" March, gives a great many sites giving the 10th, one that I can see giving the 3rd. Any way to settle this definitively? --Nalvage 15:19, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes. Find and cite a reliable source, not just a bunch of Google hits and user opinions. ☺ In this case, IMDb and TV.com, usually very reliable sources for original airdates, agree that the date is 10 March 1997, as it is for "The Harvest", presumably because they were shown back to back at its premier. (I'm afraid I missed it, so I can't vouch for this, but even if I could, my testimony, like that of any other Wikipedian, is totally irrelevant and unacceptable as a source.) For those who would protest that surely the DVD must be right, I would point them to the entire collection of Mystery Science Theater 3000 DVDs, which are rife with errors on basic information like exact titles and episode numbers.
Because inserting proper reference citations into a wiki table is a little messy, I've added the four citations (two each for "Hellmouth" and "Harvest") myself. I also added them to the airdates shown in the episodes' articles' "Infobox Television" templates. (NOTE: I corrected the syntax of those Infoboxes — by moving the pipe character signifiying the new table element to the new lines instead of trailing the old lines — to make them slightly easier to read, less prone to errors, and not incidentally easier to add reference citations to. I don't understand why people adopt conventions that are only friendly to computer geeks instead of the general English-speaking audience that are our editors. And as a computer geek myself, I can say that.☺) ~ Jeff Q (talk) 16:00, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
Hi,
Buffy premiered on March 3, 1997. I both remember the date, and that is also what the Season 1 DVD Episode Guide states. The Guide doesn't lie, because it is published by 20th Century Fox. I understand your concern, but people on TV.com and IMDb.com are very un-reliable, but you must remember that most websites that are centered on television aren't run by people who actually watch those shows, they do press, which can be very inaccurate at many times. —Preceding unsigned comment added by OLTL2002 (talk • contribs) 13:20, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
Ah, yes, 20th Century Fox Television has never made an error. (Remember Automan? ☺) The Internet Movie Database has a professional editorial board that vets basic information rather well, although as I implied above, it is not perfect either. Same with TV.com. But DVD jacket info is notoriously suspect, as it is put there by people whose main goal is to sell discs, not to report information. That doesn't mean it isn't also a reliable source by WP's definition. But we now have 3 conflicting sources. I recommend that we look for more. In the meantime, we should go with the data that two-thirds of our sources — the only ones whose sole business is information — report. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 15:30, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Okay Mr. Perfect. I remember the day that Buffy premiered. It was March 3, 1997. You probably don't even watch the show. So how about you go do something worth while. In the meantime, Buffy premiered on 3/3/97. —Preceding unsigned comment added by OLTL2002 (talk • contribs) 17:55, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Episode correspondence between series

I propose we add in which episode of the Buffy corresponds with which episode of Angel in this and the Angel episode list. Hyacinth (talk) 06:49, 10 January 2008 (UTC)