Talk:List of Blood+ characters

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Archive 1

Contents 1 New pic 1.1 Progress 2 New Chevalier Pic 3 Nathan Mahler's hinted past 4 Goldsmith Brother Order 5 Character name origins 6 Added Das to the Schiff

[edit] New pic

Ok, I've finally uploaded a group shot of Saya and some of her friends, but I don't know where to put it. It has Lewis, Julia, David, Haji, Saya, Kai, Mao, and Akihiro. --Eruhildo (talk) 16:53, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

I would say it should probably go near the top of the article. It would fill the space to the right of the ToC quite nicely. But then, I'm not too familiar with the MOS. --Dinoguy1000 19:30, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Yay! Nice pic too! :) It does, however, need to be resized to 300 pixels on one side to fit fair use guidelines. I've put in the article where Dino suggested. What do y'all think? Collectonian (talk) 20:44, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

It looks pretty good, though admittedly doesn't fill as much space as I'd hoped... Oh well, what can you do about it? ^^;; --Dinoguy1000 21:34, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

I'll resize it and reupload it soon - I don't know that much about the fair use rules yet. Could I make the vertical edge the 300px side? I think if the picture was about 400-450px wide in the article it would look better. It would at least fill the space more. --Eruhildo (talk) 02:26, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes, basically it just needs the shortest side to be at 300 :) Collectonian (talk) 04:55, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Ok, done. Thanks for your help. ^_^ Does anyone know which episode might have all or most of the chevaliers together? I don't really want to use the b&w photos that were shown early in the series. I was hoping for a better shot. --Eruhildo (talk) 10:24, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

I can't think of any episode that has any, unfortunately. Somewhere around episode 22-23, they were all together, but I can't remember if they were all on screen at the same time. We may have to wait and see if Sony uses one in the DVD releases for cover art or as an extra. :( Collectonian (talk) 11:07, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

W00T!!! I finally found an episode with all the Chevaliers in one room! I'm really not very good at figuring out where to put these group shots, so I once again ask that someone would lend me a hand. The pic has Nathan, James, Amshel, Solomon, and Karl from left to right. --Eruhildo (talk) 03:05, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Cool! I've put in the article near Amshel's section. I've removed the non-free tag since I think adding this one in place of the individual Chevalier pics has addressed the problem :) Thanks! Collectonian (talk) 04:26, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Awesome. Hey, do you think we should have a pic of Moses, Karman, and Lulu together? They're not in the pic that's there now and they're fairly main characters. Plus there's lots of times that they're together so it would be easy to take a shot. Just wonderin'. --Eruhildo (talk) 04:25, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I think that would be very good. They are the main Schiff seen for most of the series, so their pic would be even more important the others. :) Collectonian (talk) 04:28, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Hello, everyone. I think that a shot of Moses, Lulu, and Karman together can be found on the Fourth (and final) opening of the series, and in Eps. 35 and 37. BTW, there’s a shot of a photo of Saya with her “adopted” family on the series first closing as well. It shows how Saya and Kai looked like at the beginning of the series and also shows Riku and George as well. 216.196.213.141 (talk) 20:11, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I was going to use the Schiff shot in the final OP, but the stupid subs were in the way - blast I wish I had raws. But thank you very much anyway. I have taken several shots from a few episodes but was wondering: does anyone prefer/mind weapons or no weapons, close-ups (faces) or full-body shots, or subtitles? Or do you want me to just upload them all, pick through them, and have the ones we don't want deleted? Well, just let me know; I should be online again within the next few days. --Eruhildo (talk) 08:30, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

No worries...that one can probably wait till the DVDs come out later this spring. :) I don't really have any preferences on weapons/no, so long as each person is distinguishable, though no subs is better. Collectonian (talk) 08:39, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Hmm... It's a shame that James had his back to the camera in that shot... --Dinoguy1000 00:21, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes indeed, but take what you can get I say. I watched from episode 22 to 35 almost straight before I found that shot. Karl died soon after, so no more group shots. Though I don't know if they were all together before that, but I think they weren't. --Eruhildo (talk) 08:30, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

The season 4 opening seems to possible have a group shot, but it flashed by so fast I couldn't see if Karl was in it or not. It did have them all facing the camera though. Collectonian (talk) 05:34, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't think it showed them all at once or there were credits over it, otherwise I would have nabbed it. Plus I don't think Karl was in it (I think he was dead by then after all). --Eruhildo (talk) 06:31, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Maybe Karl wasn't in it...it flew by kinda fast and I was half watching. I'm sure it had all the living ones, at least, though, and no credits for a moment. Collectonian (talk) 06:37, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

It's best if the group shot gets the characters identifiable by face atleast. That'll save organization without having an individual image placed in to make up for it. Fox816 (talk) 05:40, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree, but sometimes that's impossible. --Eruhildo (talk) 06:31, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Ok, I finally decided on uploading one from episode 35 as it was better lit than the ones from episode 38. Here is the pic of Lulu, Moses, and Karman. Hope you like it. --Eruhildo (talk) 06:31, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Cool, I've replaced the other Schiff image. I was going to add, but with Betabot running around stripping images out of character lists, I thought it best to keep it down to just one for that section. Speaking of, do you think you could find an image of Diva and Riku? That would let us replace two images with one since he's missing from the group shot. Collectonian (talk) 06:40, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

There’s a shot in the 1st closing with “early” Saya, “early” Kai, Riku and George, as well as a shot of a photo of them together somewhere between Eps. 1 & 15. There’s also a shot, in the final OP where you see a photo of George and Riku that appears in between Saya and Diva (in Riku’s image) with both of them standing on either side of the screen. Maybe someone can also find a split-screen with both images of Diva somewhere.216.196.213.141 (talk) 19:44, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Progress

I think we've done great so far. We've gone from 23 little images to 7! Almost there, we just have a few individual images left to deal with. Maybe we can, as the anon user noted, find a combo of both of Diva's forms (I want to say there is one in the Season 4 opening, but can't remember at the moment). Alternatively, Diva and James, since he's the one with his back to us in the group shot? One of the recent eps had him kneeling in front of her in her "Riku" form. A combo of Riku and George would be great. George doesn't have an image right now, but a group would be better than a single of Riku. Collectonian (talk) 19:18, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

I'll take care of it, though it may take me a few days. Finding a shot of Riku and George together will be easy. Also, I'm pretty sure I can get a shot with Diva and James together. That should wrap everything up, nee? --Eruhildo (talk) 03:01, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

I think it will :) Thanks for all your hard work on the images! Its been so nice to work on the images with such friendly discussion instead of some of the tooth and nail fights on other character lists :) Collectonian (talk) 03:17, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Don't I know it! Ok, images update: I finally got around to finding a pic of George and Riku. Sorry it took me so long - I got kind of busy. As for the picture of James and Diva: does anyone know what episode might have a good shot. If not, it will probably be a while (as in months) before I go looking for one. --Eruhildo (talk) 23:50, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Awesome! Oh man...there was an episode which I think had a good pic, but I can't remember which one it was. He was kneeled before her kissing her hand...it was one of the "mommy" episodes. I think it was 35, since that's the one I have sourced for him carrying the Diva locket and that he considers her to be "Mama" (that still gives me giggles). Collectonian (talk) 01:30, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Oh yeah, I saw that episode when I was looking for the pic of the chevaliers. I'm not certain it showed both of their faces in the same shot but I'll check it out. Hopefully I can do something with it. Thanks so much, that really helps me a lot. --Eruhildo (talk) 18:46, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Found pic of Diva and James, and added it to the article. Got to run to class. See y'all. --Eruhildo (talk) 17:00, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Awesome! Thanks again! Collectonian (talk) 17:02, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Another editor brought up concerns that the list has acquired to many images again. To address these concerns, I've removed the picture with Riku and George (*frown*), and I've replaced Diva's standalone image with the one of her and James. Please feel free to offer feedback on these changes. Collectonian (talk) 02:32, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Gosh, I stay offline for a couple days and so much happens. I'm sad to see pics go too, but I think the article looks a little better now. At least we still have pics of all the main characters except for Riku. I guess we'll just have to go without a picture of him. --Eruhildo (talk) 03:59, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Yeah...I'll check the extras on the box set to see if maybe there is a promo group shot with every, but if not we'll have to just leave poor Riku out. I'm a little disappointed to see that early reviews are showing the Blood+ DVDs are using dubtitles, :( but otherwise the Part 1 sounds sweet. We'll eventually need to start working in references and content from the novels and manga as well. So far I have the volume 1 manga, which has some dramatic differences in things. I'm gonna try to get the summary posted to the main article later this week. Collectonian (talk) 04:21, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

I hate to say it, but it may just be better to just limit the scenes shown to just shots that appear after the one year time skip. Hopefully, the rest of the pics aren't deleted.--Halls452 (talk) 19:27, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Yep. I think we'll be fine with the four, since there are three separate groups of characters, and only Diva's is requiring two because she never is seen with all her chevaliers at once. Collectonian (talk) 19:29, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

I realised that. My attempt to extend the introduction finished in a failure. Honestly, what I need to do? How do you pick the images? —Preceding unsigned comment added by MagnusLordN (talk • contribs) 21:14, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

By following the image guidelines, and focusing on the major characters. If necessary, a group showing five is better than two showing three and four respectively. We must keep the number of images as small as possible. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 21:22, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] New Chevalier Pic

Okay, i just uploaded a pic contains Diva's Chevaliers, guess it's better than the old one. OgasawaraSachiko (Contact me here) 12:13, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Note: This is the new pic being discussed: Image:All Diva's Chevaliers.jpg Collectonian (talk) 06:44, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

I disagree. While the new one does show all the faces, it is also difficult to see several due to the heavy shadowing. The anime picture is clearer. . The uploaded picture also currently violates FUR by being too large, and the source is not specific enough and seems questionable. Collectonian (talk) 05:19, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Okay, i just uploaded a new and brighter version for that one including Diva and her Chevaliers. OgasawaraSachiko (Contact me here) 12:39, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Okay, but it still needs to be discussed here FIRST. If you look above, you will see all of the images in the list have been discussed and consensus reached so please do the same and don't just change the list. Collectonian (talk) 05:58, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

In terms of identifying the chevalier it's better than the current one. However, with the odd depiction of Diva in the background, it seems rather off putting. The quality of the scan isn't very good either. There's obvious glare and some wrinkling. As for the source the picture was taken from a scan gallery on the website Animepaper, presumebly uploaded by a user from a Blood+ Calendar they had purchased. Fox816 (talk) 06:29, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

The new image is odd looking, and while it may be better in terms of showing the faces, I think it is less attractive. Also, as Fox notes, the quality isn't very good an it was taken from a uploader website, so its source may or may not be accurate. Also, OgasawaraSachiko, if you change the pic again, please uploaded under a new name and post a link so the conversation doesn't get confusing.Collectonian (talk) 06:44, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

If it didn't look like a grainy poster scan, I think I would go for it. Though I have to admit, Diva does look rather... odd. --Eruhildo (talk) 20:27, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Nathan Mahler's hinted past

Mind you I've just finished watching the series in English, so forgive me if this was an addition to the dub track not found in the original. In one episode, Nathan Mahler speaks of being older than Saya and Diva (episode 49 I believe), and also speaks about their mother, and about Diva's prophecy. Then consider in the end when he speaks of Diva's blood having lost its power as if he'd known all along, along with the fact that he's clearly seen in the end having survived a brutal slash from Saya's blood coated sword, and it all hints to Nathan being Saya and Diva's mother's chevalier (thus his immunity to Saya's blood). This also goes far to explaining why, though he has affection for Diva, he is so "tranquil" as the current article phrases it. This is just me theorizing, but I suppose it could be possible that his true past was a secret from even Diva and Amshel (as in, he would've acted as though Diva turned him into a chevalier). Also forgive me if this has already been discussed long ago, but I'd think at the very least his mentions of Saya and Diva's mother and its implications should be relevant to his section.--NagakuraShin (talk) 09:29, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

It has been discussed, however as the way it is worded doesn't make it clear for sure, we can't do much beyond mention his saying it. I plan to work on Diva and the chevalier sections some more later today, after getting some sleep ;) and will encorporate his conversation with Amshel into the text. Collectonian (talk) 09:48, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Interesting. At first, I felt into a conmotion when Nathan appeared in the series one month later after Haji`s "death". Now, I realised the probability of Nathan as Saya and Diva`s mother`s chevalier. Ready to discuss? —Preceding unsigned comment added by MagnusLordN (talk • contribs) 21:10, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

No, as Wikipedia is not a forum, so the only discussion on talk page must be about the article and improving it. There was a good discussion on the possibilities on some anime websites, like AnimeOnDVD.com. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 21:24, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Goldsmith Brother Order

All of Diva's chevalier paragraphs begin by saying "so-and-so is the Xth Goldsmith brother." However, this order does not appear to be supported by any references and no order is given in the series beyond attempts to extrapolate based on the flash backs shown for some characters. Additionally, only two of the chevaliers, the actual two brothers Amshel and Solomon, are really Goldsmiths. It seems to me that the order is too OR and those statements should be removed as they can not be sourced. Thoughts? Collectonian (talk) 19:44, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Check out this timeline I was working on a while back. Before you started editing the Blood+ articles, there was a timeline on the main article, but it was removed in favor of prose. However, the timeline has data that is not mentioned in the series. I've been meaning to merge that data into the articles, but I haven't had time. The timeline is based off the timeline at the official site (Japanese) and I provided a rough translation. --Eruhildo (talk) 15:50, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Ah, cool. That can be used to help fill out some of these sections quite nicely :) Collectonian (talk) 15:54, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

I've incorporated some of the time line into various sections, and and gave Diva and her chevalier sections some much needed clean up. I also removed all references to order, as the timeline doesn't give two chevalier's conversion dates, and the ambiguity of Nathan makes it impossible to declare when/where he was converted. Perhaps the manga or novels will be able to make it clearer later though. Collectonian (talk) 02:28, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Character name origins

Surveying the whole of the series, there are numerous references to the Rothschild banking family of 18th- and 19th-century Europe. "Red Shield" refers both to the meaning of the name Rothschild and the emblem of the family and enterprise. Likewise, Diva's major chevaliers are named after Mayer Rothschild's five sons, Amschel, Salomon, Nathan, Calmann and James. I've watched Blood+, but I haven't examined the series very deeply, and I wouldn't be confident that I'd get the details right; so I'd really appreciate it if someone could integrate this information into the article- and particularly if someone were to go over the available historical information on the Rothschilds and point out any other parallels Blood+ draws with the Goldschmidts/Goldsmiths. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Asterphage (talk • contribs) 07:32, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, but no. Some of that was in there, but was removed. Unless reliable sources regarding those connections exist, it will remain out as it constitutes nothing but original research and personal opinion/guesses. Wikipedia is not a place for self-research and synthesis.Collectonian (talk) 14:38, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

What Collectonian said. While I agree everything points to such a relationship, we have no sources for it, so it's just original research. --Eruhildo (talk) 20:21, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Added Das to the Schiff

Ok I added Gas to the schiff so if anyone can adjust any mistakes I made, add more, or add a picture I would be very grateful. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.179.8.189 (talk) 23:13, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

He's already been removed. Per previous discussions, he is not notable nor major enough for mentioning. Collectonian (talk) 23:16, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes he is he protected Lulu from getting killed plus he lasted longer than Irene I think each of the named schiff should at least get a mention. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.179.8.189 (talk • contribs) 22:08, 19 April 2008

No. The article is only for major characters. He is mentioned where relevant in others sections, and that is all. He is not notable in the series at all. If he ends up being more notable in the manga or novels, it can be revisited, but he was not notable in the anime. Collectonian (talk) 04:11, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Correct. I just posted: "Homever, this article only describes the main ones from every sides." So, nothing to reply. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MagnusLordN (talk • contribs) 21:12, 4 June 2008 (UTC)