Talk:List of Bleach characters/Archive 1

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Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Contents

Spelling over Nova and Claude

Yes, I've noticed the little "official" translation note, which prefers direct use of "Romaji". However, I also notice the inconsistency of such policy with the list of Vaizard characters, which uses the English equivalent. Looking through Anime News Network's list, those two names are spelled into direct English. KyuuA4 17:50, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Jinta's Weapon

Is it really a tessen? It looks more to me like an oversized metal bat.

  • According to Bleach Advance It's called "The Invincible Iron Rod"(無敵鉄棍) or something like that. I'll change it to Iron Rod. 75.2.130.104 23:38, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Eugene Currier

It's said that Kariya's name used to be Eugene Currier. There aren't any references/citations, I'd like to know where this is found.--Chemicalist 06:25, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

It was taken from the cast list at the end of the episode where Kariya brings Caine to Koga. Kangarugh22 14:48, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Karakura High?

Isn't Karakura just the name of the town where they live in? I believe the school is called Mashiba Jr. High. Can anyone confirm/refute this? -- Ynhockey 18:49, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

No, thats Mashiba Middle School.

you guys forgot to mention that chizuru also flirts with rukia, so can somone please add that too. oh and keigo too. he has a small crush on rukia... so can u guys please add that too? please and thank you! user:angel_0707 4:28 july 31,2007 (UTC)

You're welcome! User:Hartebeest August 2 (UTC)

Lieutenant vs. Vice-Captain

Please decide. I think lieutenant is the obvious choice, what kind of rank is vice-captain anyway? If some here are so intent on preserving the Japanese way of saying things, then we should scrap captain as well and replace is with Division Commander and then Vice-Division Commander. Or not because these articles are in English. -- Ynhockey 07:36, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

I vote for Lieutenant. Vice-Captain makes it sound more like they have equal power in the division whereas Lieutenant lets anyone know exactly where they stand in each division.Nezu Chiza 09:21, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
"Lieutenant" makes far more sense, when put into an English context, because people are basically thinking the "Captain-Lieutenant-Sergeant-Corporal-Private" paradigm anyway when thinking in military terms (or militia, when in the case of the shinigami). I'm also of the mind that the "Captain-Commander" of the 1st Gotei should be called a Colonel, as the Goteis should probably be called "Squads" or "Divisons" or such. Granted, I'm not for translating the thing entirely into modern military settings (seeing as we have yet to see how Viz will explain the individual seated officers, for example), but we'll handle those details when we get to them, I guess.--Mitsukai 15:28, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
This discussion really should not be decided by what "sounds better" since Wikipedia is an encyclopedia we should use the correct terms given in the English manga and anime. Also, I would like to extend this discussion beyond the "Lieutenant vs. Vice-Captain" point: "Shinigami vs. Soul Reaper vs. Death God"

"Zampaktoh vs. Soul Slayer" and etc. 132.203.54.120 21:19, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

In order to do that we need a reliable user (that pretty much excludes unregistered users) who has a copy of the entire English manga. There are a lot of naming questions I would like to ask from such a user, and I'm sure some other editors would also like to know. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 10:01, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
I have just registered myself (I am the userfrom above) and I am expecting the first two volumes of Bleach to arrive at my house in a week or two. At that time I will be able to answer any questions on such maters on my user page AS Artimour 23:58, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Remove this page?

I think we should just copy everything over to the Characters in Bleach page and completely remove this page. It serves no purpose, IMO. Please comment. -- Ynhockey 10:28, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

Um...what pages are you talking about?--Mitsukai 15:23, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
Sorry I didn't clarify. I meant the page Characters in Bleach series. What's the point of having it as well as Characters in Bleach? I think Characters in Bleach makes more sense and should stay and this page should be removed since no one would think to type it in Search anyway. -- Ynhockey 17:04, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
The reason it was done this way is because we didn't want our characters nice and Clorox clean. ^_^ Seriously, it had to do with convention. Characters in Bleach would imply a link to the Bleach article, which is not the case (it's linked to the Bleach (manga) article). Since that would have looked awkward, "...Bleach series" seemed the best course of progression.--Mitsukai 17:43, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
We don't copy pages in Wikipedia. We move them and usually keep the old one as redirect. This is done to preserve the edit history. Jeltz talk 18:20, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

Actually Ynhockey, I put in a search for Bleach characters because I was looking for information on one of the characters who wouldn't have their own page. Temari of Suna 19:57, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Yamamoto

Is it Yamamoto Genryūsai or Yamamotogenryūsai? We have different versions on different pages. Personally I suggest Yamamoto-Genryūsai. -- Ynhockey 05:48, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Name order

We're using the english name order on the pages, and the individual character article titles are also in the english name order. I agree with this. However, I think it would be useful if we had redirects of the japanese name order that went to the english name order. e.g. Ichimaru Gin as a redirect to Gin Ichimaru. Is there any reason not to do so? --Tjstrf 21:31, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

I made redirects for tons of characters. But never actually went through each one and made a redirect. So, feel free to do the rest, I don't think there's any reason not to do it. Similarly, I made a few more for long spellings (i.e. ou for ō or uu for ū). -- Ynhockey 13:23, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

A bunch of names are in conflicting order. Ishida's for example in backwards (assuming you want English order). Personally I think origional japanese order would be preferable but that is personal preference. 131.128.142.226 18:10, 16 February 2006 (UTC) aka lordfate

Within Wikipedia, we use Given Name-Family Name for modern Japanese names (ie, those born/created post-Meiji era). This also includes fictional characters.--み使い Mitsukai 18:16, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Zanpakutō

Hrm. Would the flying manta creature that Unohana manifests from her zanpakutō be considered an avatar form? Nezu Chiza 04:30, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

It's her shikai. We don't know if the spirit looks like that or not. Consider Renji's bankai, which looks nothing like his sword's spirit.--Tjstrf 08:31, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Someone added a rumor about Zangetsu being the spirit of Ichigo's uncle. Anyone got a source for this, or is it just a fan rumor? If it's the latter then it needs to be removed, but even though I've never heard of this idea I figured I'd check to see if anyone else has. Thanks. Nezu Chiza 19:20, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Fan rumour based on certain translations where Ichigo's saying Old Man is rendered as Uncle. --Tjstrf 21:47, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
Ahhh. Yeah, I've seen the translation as Uncle before, but understood it's more of a general thing, like calling someone oneechan or oniichan even if you're not related. Guess there are those who don't know how that works. Removed the rumor from the article like I was tempted to in the first place. Thanks :) Nezu Chiza 01:08, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, apparently some fans don't catch on to the whole term of respect thing. Oh well, at least no one's added the idea that Ichigo's mother was a hollow/shinigami/quincy/whatever to the page, another common idiotic idea some fans seem to hold. --Tjstrf 01:58, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

On Soul Society in Ruins

Nezu Chiza, the Court of Pure Souls refers to the entire area that the shinigami reside in, correct? However, the impression I got from your statement is that it's something separate from the Office of 46, the 13 Squads, and the 4 gate-watchers. However, according to the Soul Society entry, "Soul Society" as a whole refers to all of that AND the outer districts of Rukongai. However, Rukongai is relatively untouched by Aizen's defection while the Court of Pure Souls is the part left in ruins.

That seems like a more clarified explanation to me. King Zeal 13:33, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Considering Soul Society and the portion known as the Court of Pure Souls are used quite interchangebly, AND the average viewer/reader tends to refer to everything as Soul Society...why try and change something that doesn't need changing? Yes, technically the specific parts are in the Court of Pure Souls. But it's all in Soul Society. And three Captains defecting, Hinamori in a coma, the defection of three of the four gate watchers, the death of the Office of 46, Aizen with the Hōgyoku, and more...all these certainly have more far-reaching implications than just affecting the Court, don't they? The only way they wouldn't is if you decided that the Court, while in Soul Society, isn't actually part of it...and that's certainly not true. Lets use a real world example; When September 11th happened in the US, people didn't refer to it as an attack just on New York, did they? Anyway, if common consensus is to change the Soul Society reference to Court of Impure Souls(note that I wasn't the one who put the reference in, by the way), then I'll go with what everyone else wants. Nezu Chiza 22:57, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
The terms may be used interchangably, but I can equally refer to myself as a Chicagoan (as Chicago is my hometown) or an American. However, if the discussion at hand pertains to Chicago, the former title would be more specific.
As for your 9/11 analogy . . . people may refer to the attacks themselves as "an attack on America", however, that's a broad description of an act of war. The Aizen subcategory says "Soul Society was left in ruins", which is an inaccurate accessment of the aftermath. NO ONE, when referring to 9/11, would say "America was left in ruins" because it would be grossly inaccurate. In addition, 9/11 was a multi-pronged attack. Remember, the Twin Towers wasn't the only location that was attacked. Both Somerset County in Pennsylvania, as well as the Pentagon, were also sites of plane crashes. Meanwhile, the damage done in "Soul Society" is completely localized within the Court of Pure Souls.
However, the only reason I'm arguing this point is because it's an exaggerated description of the event. Someone who hadn't seen the show and is simply reading the spoilers would get a complete wrong idea. King Zeal 00:55, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

Page Edits

Due to the size of the page, it was going to either need a split, or size reduction. I have decided to remove the character descriptions of all characters that have their own pages, in an attempt to keep down the number of repetitive splits. If anyone disagrees with this, feel free to change it, but I think at this point, we should conserve the size of this page for any additional characters (and as the series goes on, I can pretty much guarantee we're going to be seeing more and more characters).--み使い Mitsukai 02:57, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Keigo?

Do you think, given the recent events of the manga, Keigo should have his own page in the same manner that Ichigo, Tatsuki, and so on do? 68.70.136.127

Yes it's worth a try. I think we will find out even more about Keigo as the story progresses. -- Y Ynhockey || Talk Y 21:25, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
OK, I've started the page, didn't have time to write much. Please expand. -- Y Ynhockey || Talk Y 21:29, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
Gotcha, will do. EDIT: I've added alot of info, but he still needs a character box. I stink at HTML, and so that wouldn't be my job. ^_^;; 68.70.136.127 22:55, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

"Grand Fisher" or "Ground Fisher"

In the discussion on hollows, the article refers to the hollow that killed Ichigo's mother as the "grand fisher"- maybe I'm just reading the fansubs wrong, or maybe I shouldn't be relying on fansubs for something like this at all, but it seems to me that it was called the "Ground Fisher"; this would make sense as it "fishes" for humans by bringing its humanoid appendage up through the ground while it remains hidden.

I think it's Grand Fisher in Viz, not 100% sure. I'll check when I get back home, but I've never personally seen 'Ground Fisher' :/ -- Y Ynhockey || Talk Y 12:24, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
I think it's officially Grand Fisher as well, though truthfully it could also be a (no pun intended) grand mistake by everyone. It wouldn't be the first time every J-E translator flubbed something, only to find out later that the original term was something else.--み使い Mitsukai 17:02, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
Check ch.185 p.4, it says gurando fisshaa (looking at the raw now). Doubt it's Ground Fisher; but if the original user is willing to provide a source which says Ground Fisher, I'll be happy to look into it whenever I get time. -- Y Ynhockey || Talk Y 17:25, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

The Table of Contents

I found the removing of the table of contents to be strange and really... slightly annoying. It's just a subconscious thing, repeatedly scrolling down and back to get to a character profile, while with the TOC we could just click and zoom, we're there.

I can understand that we're trying to reduce this articles size, but I felt the TOC needed to return. -- Makaio

Headings for 4th, 11th, and 12th divisions are missing.- 71.212.2.68 01:58, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

It has been fixed. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 09:04, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Vizard?

A number of things about the 'Vizards'. For one I have read it translated in a number of places as 'Vaizards'. Can't read Japanese myself but thought I should point that out.

Also regarding the names of the characters, I am not sure the one with the afro and glasses is called 'Love'. That may be Rose's way of casually refering to people, seeing as he seems to be based on a british 80's rocker ("These go to eleven" and such) though maybe not. Just thought I would raise that.

Finally regarding their nature, are we sure that they are originally Shinigami? Prehaps I've forgotten something Urahara said, but they dont seem quite the same. They dont seem to be invisible to normal mortals (they even seem to have a source of income and go shopping) and dont need to transition into a spirit form to wield their zanpaktou, which should also put them into Shinigami uniforms.

Thank you for your input. First of all, there is an article about the vizard where info about alternative spellings is found (you can add any common alternative spellings yourself), but in Wikipedia we cannot mention an alternative spelling of a term in every single article and therefore have to agree on one term. So far we agreed on vizard (also notice the lowercase v), although visored is also a logical transliteration. They are all mentioned in said article. As far as Japanese goes, vizard, visored, vaizard, vaizaado, etc. are all correct transliterations, vaizaado being the direct one. Vaizard is the least logical because in English it would be pronounced VEY-zard.
Secondly, your claim about Love could be true, but it is speculation and therefore cannot be put into the article unless it has a concrete basis or is commonly believed. If more users agree with you, we may add something like It is speculated that his real name isn't Love, but it is Rose's way of calling certain people. (Or something to that effect.)
Thirdly, it says in ch. 188 p. 9 (I'll add it as a reference now to the vizard article) that they were shinigami before trying to gain hollow powers (as you said, Urahara says it). However, they are no longer shinigami, but vizard, and therefore may have substantial differences.
Finally, it helps signing your name with 4 tildes (~~~~) so we know who you are. If you don't have an account, you might think of registering one.
-- Y Ynhockey (Talk) Y 09:57, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

About Kensei and his zanpakutō, how do we not know that maybe the knife is the sealed form and not the released form? it might be the other way way around Maigokunshu 14:28, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Because he transformed it to that state to fight Ichigo, which would logically indicate he was releasing it. --tjstrf 14:34, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

I assume the Vizard use gigais and since we saw Rukia and Ikkaku eating whilst in gigais it can be assumed to be necesssary to feed it. In order to feed themselves some of them would need to get jobs. I assume a zanpakuto can be wielded whilst one is in a gigai because Urahara does it all the time. Why shinigami need to wear gigais is unknown to me it could be they allow them to recharge which they couldn't do in spirit form or it could be something else entirely.You also don't need to wear a shinigami uniform if you are/were a shinigami lots of people wear differant outfits in fleshy and spiritual form143.52.5.11 19:15, 15 January 2007 (UTC)some guy

Koga

Where did you get the spelling of Koga? Was it in the credits? -- Ynhockey (Talk) 03:44, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Also, I have seen a fansub refer to Koga as "Manote". Since I am unclear on whether this is first or last, I'm just posting it here. (Yes, I know it's last-first name order, but... bah, whatever.) Krin 18:55, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Love/Rabu

Chapter 217, page 07 (and another page I can't remember), clearly shows that the name is Ravu (presumably for Love), although the new ch. 222 screenshots clearly show Rabu (羅武). Does anyone have a physical copy of the manga to verify which is correct? If not, I guess we'll have to insert both names. -- Ynhockey (Talk)

I'm also rather curious about the source of the name Hachigen, as it doesn't seem to appear in the manga. Maybe the Bleach databook? (I haven't read it all yet.) -- Ynhockey (Talk) 21:26, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Bount kanji

Where did the editor (IP user) get the kanji for all those Bount, like Koga? Since he added them for each one, I suspect it could be guesswork, and have for now removed them. Please provide a source. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 13:52, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

I added all of those kanji for their names. They are taken from the cast lists at the end of the episodes... Kangarugh22 14:36, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Hachigen

I already asked this, but let me ask again under a new heading: Where is the name Hachigen for Hacchi/Hutch from? If no one can answer this, I'll revert that old edit to Hutch. Thanks. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 06:32, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

I got it out of the raw chapter that his full name was first said a long time ago. Kangarugh22 14:38, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Birthdates

With the availability of the Bleach Souls Databook it would be a simple matter to add the birthdates of all the characters, and this has been done for most if not all of the characters that have their own articles already. It has not, however, been done for the minor characters. Is there a reason for this that I've missed during my absence, and would this be considered notable enough information to add to the biographies of the minor characters? Or would it simply add to the length and potential chaos of the article?--Tjstrf 04:53, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

I think the reason is that no one was bothered. Please add the birthdates if you can. Also an unrelated question: what is the exact name of the databook? Because I don't think I have the title page. I mean like, is it Bleach Souls Databook, Bleach Databook (Souls), Bleach Character Book Souls, or what? -- Ynhockey (Talk) 12:22, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
I thought as much. Official title? Don't know. The file says "Bleach Databook Souls" but I don't have the title page either. Supposedly there is a group that is going to gradually translate it, so hopefully when they do they will release the title page with it. --Tjstrf 23:01, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Tatsufusa (8th division 3rd seat)

This is probably about as minor a complaint as you can get, but the entry (if you can call it that) about Tatsufa seems rather biased. Especially the line "Tatsufusa believes he is strong." Tatsufa may be weak compared to the protagonists, but to become a 3rd seat he has to be strong compared to the average shinigami. Can anyone think of a better way to word this? --Tjstrf 16:58, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

How about: Tatsufusa seems to have an inflated ego? I would add something about strength, but in one of the omake he confesses his love to Soi Fong (well, something of the sort), who is higher ranking and doesn't seem to like him very much. So, it doesn't only apply to strength. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 17:17, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
Thanks, I'll use that. --Tjstrf 17:24, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Shiro

I added the characters "Shiro" to the Characters in Bleach section. She is one of the Vizard's. She is a small girl with goggles or sunglasses in her hair. No one knew her name thus there was no entry on her, but with chapter 225 Hirako speaks to her directly. I will try to upload a picture of her.

The link below is her picture... http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/4415/buri099ay.jpg AgentSmith15 23:30, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

New arrancar

For the new arrancar, Wonderweiss seems to make much more sense than Wonderwyce (which is terrible), but weiss is a German ending pronounced like 'vice', so it's not entirely correct either (needs to be waisu). Any suggestions? -- Ynhockey (Talk) 03:18, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Wonderwyss or Wonderwice maybe? Or, it may be Wonderweiss, and the author just wrote it wrong. Is it really Wikipedia's place to be making up spellings in the first place? (as in, leave it to the scanlators) --tjstrf 06:34, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

No, but I don't think we want to leave it as Wandaawaisu, when it's clearly not a native Japanese name. There is probably an intended coherent English (or Spanish?) spelling. Maybe some Spanish speakers could check it out too. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 11:46, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Rupee or Rupi?

What is the proper way to spell his name? We have two articles that spell his name differently.

No clue, but I'd say leave as Rupi for now, since that was added first and there doesn't seem to be a standardized form yet. Or, one of you actual japanese speakers could come and help us out here. --tjstrf 06:29, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Shun shun rikka

There should be entries for them... they are also characters. I have no time atm to do this, but might later. But it's better if someone else does, I can't tell between then from memory. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 17:37, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

I have gone ahead and added the Shun Shun Rikka. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 11:11, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Theme songs

Who else thinks that putting down theme songs for major characters in this page is superfluous? I mean, stuff like height and weight would be more important IMO and they only exist on the detailed character pages. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 22:50, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Another task

We should decide whether to sort the entries in this list by importance or alphabetical order. Either way, someone has to sort them because they seem to appear randomly in certain sections. I propose importance. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 11:12, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Importance sounds great in theory, but how do you determine it in practice? For example, is Chad or Renji more important? Chad was introduced first, but Renji was far more important to the Soul Society arc. Or are you suggesting by importance within the existing sections that have no other obvious criteria? (specifically sections like Bount, or the modsouls) I'd suggest order of appearance myself. --tjstrf 14:21, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Yes, I was suggesting the latter. However, importance and alphabetical order are not mutually exclusive. The one/few clearly more important characters can be at the start (e.g. Jin Kariya under Bount), while the others can be in alphabetical order. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 11:25, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Merging minor articles here

After an afd discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bleach arrancar, the result was to merge all of the mentioned minor character articles (D-Roy, Luppi (Bleach), Edorad Leones, Il Forte Grantz, Shawlong Qufang, Wanderweiss) into this article, or some other relevant larger article. Since just cut and pasting everything would bloat this page too much, I just put in the merge tags so that people more knowledgeable in the subject can do it. Thanks. - Bobet 09:28, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Yoruichi Shihouin: formor 2nd Seat Captain?

According to Bleachportal.net Yoruichi used to be the captain of the second seat in the Gotei 13 divisions. Although I understand this is an unreliable source, there must be a reason they stated this. Since I have only watched the anime and never read the manga I can confirm if this is true or not. If it is true it should be mentioned under the second seat section.

I don't recall it ever being stated. They could just be assuming it because of Soi Fon. Nemu 00:54, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
It wasn't stated, and there have been some pretty big arguments over it between the fans online. Personally, I think she was, but to state that conclusively either way would be speculation. --tjstrf 00:59, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
Yoruichi was the commander of all those Ninjas whose names (Execution Squad? Not sure...) I forget right now. However, no where is it stated that the commander of that is the Captain of the 2nd Division, and that Soi Fong holds them both at the same time appears to simply be coincidental. In fact, no where is it ever stated that Yoruichi was ever even a Shinigami/Death God. Xenon Zaleo 05:42, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Mizuiro

I think that Mizuiro, given the events of chapters 239 and 240, should be given his own page. Or should we wait for a few more chapters to see what becomes of him? 66.212.211.129 20:27, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

You mean Keigo's sister? Unnecessary. She's done less than Kukaku Shiba, who doesn't have an article. --tjstrf 20:54, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
I believe he's talking about the blue haired friend. He still hasn't done anything notable, so he shouldn't get an article. Nemu 21:01, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
You're right, I had him confused with Mizuho. Neither of them needs an article. In fact, Keigo really didn't need one either, at least until now. --tjstrf 21:07, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Subdivision of character lists

There are now Bounts in Bleach series and Hollows in Bleach series. While I personally don't support this split, if there is consensus to support it then I won't oppose. However, even in such a case, characters in those sub-lists (e.g. Ulquiorra under hollows) should be listed on the main character page just as a reference. The purpose of the Characters in Bleach series page (or maybe it should be called List of characters in Bleach) is to list all characters. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 10:36, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Someone's messed up the character template!

If you look at the character template, Isshin Kurosaki's link has been removed, and been replaced with sex. Can someone fix this? RedEyesMetal 08:51, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Article name

I think this article (and the daughter article on the hollows) are slightly misnamed. The naming convention for anime articles reads, "If the list of characters is a separate page headings should be used. Name this page List of characters in (series) if it is just a list, or Characters in (series) if it contains actual information on the characters." That implies the title Characters in Bleach. However, as noted higher up the page, that would imply that the characters belong to the cleaning agent rather than the manga. Therefore, I think the article should be moved to Characters in Bleach (manga), and the hollows article should be moved to Hollows in Bleach (manga). What do you think? Dekimasu 02:05, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

I see nothing wrong with Characters in Bleach. I mean, who in their right mind would think that this had anything to do with the cleaning agent? -- Ynhockey (Talk) 08:38, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
I see no pressing need for a move of this page (nor Hollows) to any other name, as I think "series" reads better than having those annoying paranthetical disambiguations in articles with phrase titles. Also, it would leave Bounts in Bleach series out of line with the others, and we can't really rename that one to (manga). --tjstrf 08:43, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
In that case, I'm going to agree with Ynhockey and support a move to Characters in Bleach, Hollows in Bleach, and Bounts in Bleach. As it stands, the word "series" doesn't serve a purpose (and if it is there, it probably should be in parentheses). The article name can also be read to imply that there are multiple series (the name could be Characters in the Bleach series for clarification, but I don't think would make anyone happy). Dekimasu 09:05, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
Just a funny thought here: if we'd used BLEACH for the main artilce, we wouldn't be having a problem here at all, since we could just make it Characters in BLEACH, etc. But we all (rightfully) thought that was stupid. Well, move them wherever. We should probably wait until Sunday to move the pages though, since there are some other active editors who simply aren't on at this time of day/night. --tjstrf 09:11, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
I'm going to go ahead and move these three pages to Characters in Bleach, Hollows in Bleach, and Bounts in Bleach now. Dekimasu 02:41, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Who just moved this page to List of characters in Bleach? That's out of standard with the naming convention.

Names of the Modified Souls

(Un)fortunately, my volume 24 included official advertising inserts listing the names of the modified souls. The top two lines of text for the most recent CD read: "Bleach Beat Collection 2nd Session 04: Jin Kariya/Ririn/Kuroud/Noba." Along with the title of the new volume ("Immanent God Blues," the title of chapter 214), the English editing at Jump has been going downhill lately. At any rate, we have official English spellings on the names now. I'm going to change the spellings here to reflect it, but I'm not sure where else they appear. Dekimasu 05:37, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

OK, thanks for the info (sort of). I know their names appear in Bounts in Bleach a couple times, and probably Ichigo, Renji, and Rukia's articles as well. No need to feel any particular urge for haste or anything though... --tjstrf 05:53, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
It only makes sense and I'm glad their names have finally been made official. I hated the (made-up) name Cloud especially since the English word "cloud" sounds absolutely nothing like the Japanese word "kurōdo" which is his real name and how all the characters pronounce it. If his name was Cloud, it would be spelled "kuraudo" in Japanese. I'm not sure where Dattebayo Fansubs got the name Cloud in the first place. Nova also sounded corny so I like Noba more which is what I've always called him.Kangarugh22 14:45, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Liam O'Brien voicing Jushiro?

I just noticed this, any citation or proof that he is voicing Jushiro?

RedEyesMetal 21:03, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

The Bleach info page on ANN lists Liam O'Brien as Ukitake's VA. Indigosama 18:29, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
ANN is a tertiary resource, and further a publically editable one. It cannot be used as for a source. –Gunslinger47 19:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Spelling of Dordon*

Well, if you look at the title page of chapter 251 (that's page 3), you will notice that it is difficult to make out the guy's last letter or two. Some have suggested that it is Dordonii - could be. But is there another source for this, or anything beyond a wild guess? Because right now the spelling of his name on Wikipedia is not consistent at all. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 22:59, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Rose???!!! Prove it...

I've been saying this all along... Does anyone have actual proof from a raw scan that his name was said to be Rose? I remember the first time I read in a scanslation that they called him Rose, I looked through the whole raw chapter and never found anything saying ロズ (Rozu). I'd like to see some solid proof (not a fan translation) where it says that his name is Rose. If someone can give me a page number from a raw chapter that says his name is Rose, then I will stand down. Until then, I will say that he remains nameless and that the portion of the article on the Vizard is wrong.Kangarugh22 14:53, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

This is why I told the other editors not to insert katakana... eventually they would screw up. The name Rose is correct, only it's supposed to be ローズ. See chapter 217, page 7. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 15:02, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
I have chapter 217 and I've checked the disputed page 7 again. Nowhere on that page is ローズ written. The closest to it is when Rabu says "tsuukareezu omae," the "reezu" part looking like this: れーズ. Here's the raw scan: http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/kangarugh22/217_07.jpg Check it yourself. :)Kangarugh22 23:09, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
I just realized that I'm an idiot. That katakana that I thought was a "re" actually IS a "ro." lol Soooo, nevermind!!!Kangarugh22 23:18, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Face Paint?

what if the lines on Ulquiorra(and other characters) actually mean something like Death or etc?*was looking at Inuyasha pages*, if so can someone add that to the trivia of characters with any markings on their face?, i would but i don't want to be wrong then it being thrown back at me, lol. Maigokunshu 06:34, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Practically all of the arrancar have facial markings/paintings of some sort if you look closely enough (Nell included). I can only speculate at their significance. Likely they are meant to visually suggest a mask. –Gunslinger47 06:52, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
i didn't say they didn't have face paint/markings, i was just pointing out Ulquiorra because he's my fav character, lol, but can you/someon look into the meaning of all the face paint meanings and add them as trivia in those characters pages. Maigokunshu 07:26, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
They don't really have to mean anything; they could just be there for decorative purposes. This is just a wild guess so I don't suggest including that to any of the articles, but it seems to make sense to me (maybe because I'm the one writing it?). // PoeticDecay 22:45, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Gate watchers

I think the image in this section should be either removed or replaced with an image from the RAW. I personally prefer anime image where possible, but this image has no anime counterpart. There are 2 major problems using a scanlation image:

  • Intellectual property - while as Someguy pointed out in his edit summary, this is not the scanlator's work but the artist's (Kubo Tite), I don't think we should disrespect the scanlators' requests, and most scanlators ask for their scanlations not to be used for non-personal use, etc.
  • Factual accuracy - not only do the scanlations not use macrons, but also the first gate keeper is named Hikonyuudou, not Bikonyuudou (although it might be a mistake on our part, should check). This may confuse many readers who don't understand Japanese.

In short, I think the image should be removed in favor of a RAW image, an image from the previous page (177-08), or no image at all.

-- Ynhockey (Talk) 18:56, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

If it's not accurate, I'm all for it being removed. Alternatively, it would be quite simple to edit in the correct names. The simple "it's a scantalor's work" isn't all that big a deal. While I agree that they don't like their work reproduced, a panel or two doesn't really affect them, and were we to use that excuse, not a one of the manga images used would be applicable. Using entire scans is what pisses them off. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 20:42, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
I say remove it. There is no need for an image of these incredibly minor characters at all, it simply increases the (already huge) number of fair use Bleach images. Which was something like 150 last I checked, with a lot of them being the easily justifiable album and manga covers. --tjstrf talk 20:50, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Hachigen's zanpakuto

The article states that his soulcutter has been seen only once when the Vizard were forced to hold dow Ichigo. This is not the case as he had it out when Ichigo entered the warehouse and as he and the other Vizard watched Shinji's brief tussle with Ichigo Sigojwana 22:56, 25 January 2007 (UTC)Sigojwana

Main characters

Is there any reason why only Ichigo and Rukia are listed under this section? I'm pretty sure that characters such as Sado, Orihime, and Uryū (just to name a few) deserve to be there as well. Or are they considered secondary characters or something? Thanks in advance. // PoeticDecay 00:05, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

I think the reason why only Ichigo and Rukia are listed as main characters is that there was long debate about who should be included in main characters - along with Ichigo's original group, Renji Abarai and Kisuke Urahara were candidates, just to name two. It was then decided that, to avoid dispute, only the undisputably 'main' characters so far should be listed. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 00:49, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Masaki

Is it possible to get a different screenshot of Masaki for this article? It's a minor nit-pick, but the current image appears to be of Grand Fisher's Masaki doll. Kurotsuchi mayuri 00:09, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Kensei

I just noticed that his mention says its not clear whether or not the two Zanpakutous we see him with are the same sword. It used to say something to the effect of we see his zanpakutou in both it's unreleased form and its initial release form. Which makes a whole lot more sense. I mean really, a powerful shinigami fighting with entirely different Zanpakutous is a bit absurd.--Bushido Brown 06:01, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

You can be bold and change it yourself. If someone reverts it, then take it to article or user talk. I actually really liked the old phrasing, but I suppose it's somewhat speculative. Although it made the most sense. Hobbeslover talk/contribs 06:10, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
I decided to be bold and changed it a few weeks back only to find that it has been reverted. Can whoever did the revet take things to the discussion page before mindlessly changing things? --Bushido Brown 01:51, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Bount Arc Mod Souls

Should that portion of the article be changed to reflect the fact that they are now included in the Arrancar arc as well in the anime? Whoa2000 01:00, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

I think so. Hartebeest 29 July, 2007

There are too many images on this page.

Could I get support for the removal of the images of incredibly minor characters that are currently flooding the page and messing up the formatting willy-nilly? --tjstrf talk 05:04, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Seconded. Jezebel Parks 06:02, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

God help us

Hi. I see a little discussion about the "Dios ruego nos perdone" phrase. I think I can help a little. From my point of view, it depends on the comma or not comma. As far as I know the japanese language has no comma, so you have to infer it. So, with comma it would read:

Dios, ruego nos perdone, meaning God, I beg thy forgive us (or I beg for thy forgiveness, less literally).

With no comma, I would translate it as:

Dios luego nos perdone, meaning God later forgive us (as in I wish/hope/expect that God later forgives us). Bear in mind the verb is in subjunctive form and in 3rd person singular (that can also be used as respect to the person you talk to). You could also translate it as dios ruego nos perdone without comma (something like I beg He forgives us, God, an awkward word order).

So, for me either of those are valid, it depends on the comma. --Wafry 07:40, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Is there some sort of dispute regarding this, or did you just want to say that for whatever reason? I think you probably meant to post this message to the Talk:Hollows in Bleach page. The first meaning makes far more sense than the second regardless. If you wanted an English translation for your last variant ("I beg he forgives us, God") that maintained the word order, I think the closest you'd get would be "(I) request your pardon, God." Still, this is Kubo we're talking about and he's hardly perfect in his Spanish, so some leeway for that should be assumed. Let's just accept that and use some scanlator's translation that actually makes sense. --tjstrf talk 08:04, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Official Romanization

Ok, I've posted a note on "Izuru Kira" discussion, but there is so many characters that is better to put it here. Ok, we, actually, have the official romanization of almost every character until the Soul Society arc, not just some few Arrancar. The official romanization was saw in lots of promotional things, but they doesn't matter. What matter is the S.O.U.L.s artbook that many of you (probably all) know - it was there that we discovered many minor-Hollows names and that the right is "Soifon" not "Soi Fong". So, there is still some romanizations that we are neglecting:

  • Iduru Kira (not Izuru)
  • Chiduru Honsho (not Chizuru)
  • Syunsui Kyoraku (not Shunsui)
  • Marechiyo Ohmaeda (there is an H after the O)

So, I'm just suggesting to change their names on wiki (of course). - Access Timeco 03:01, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

We should not move the page, as I said on Talk:Izuru Kira, because with Japanese names (as opposed to non-Japanese, such as Bounts, Kuroud, Yammy and Ulquiorra) we can simply use a standard transliteration (Hepburn in this case) without too much trouble. There is a problem with the SOULs transliterations because they are inconsistent, for example Hitsugaya's name I believe was Toushiro.
The reason the switch was made from Soi Fong to Soifon was not because of the SOULs transliteration. The argument there was not about how to transliteration specific kana, but about whether there was any merit to the 'Fong' part. We were looking for an official source that would confirm that the name was supposed to be Fong. After finding that SOULs also did not write it with a G, we concluded that it was an invention of scanlators. In short, the G in Fong is not even a transliteration error, it's a complete error in the name, which we overlooked.
I have stated this in previous discussions as well. Therefore we should not move any of the pages. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 07:09, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Split Page

Do to the fact that the page keeps getting bigger and bigger as new characters are intruduced they should be split in by locations of where they receide to allow a more ampt and detail character profilethis will also cut down on having to remove so many pictures of characters to save space

YES. please, please, please SPLIT this page. this page is obscenely large and completely unorganized. Lacking Lack 06:31, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Even if we do split it off, we still don't need pictures of absurdly minor characters like the classmates. I'm fine with a split personally, and would suggest either Shinigami in Bleach or Soul Society residents in Bleach as the next logical step, preferring the former because it could then be the main page for the Category:Shinigami in Bleach. --tjstrf talk 06:54, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
  • While we're on the subject of splitting the page, I think there's enough info about Hiyori for her own page now. There's very little mention about her role in Ichigo's training right now, and that could be expanded upon. We even have a manga panel of her hollow transformation. -Biokinetica 03:17, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
I disagree, I don't think she deserves her own page yet. I think she is the perfect example of a character that is at the moment non-notable. She may nowever become notable in the future. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 13:23, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Then what are you going to do with Shinji's page? There's just as much information about him as there is about Hiyori. -Biokinetica 06:44, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Shinji has had more interactions, more fights, and he just showed up on the latest colour spread so he's probably showing up again. --tjstrf talk 07:10, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
  • More fights? Intercepting Grimmjow equates to "more fights"? Although I do agree that he's had more interaction with the main characters, I don't think Shinji having more should be used as a crutch to keep Hiyori from a legitimate page. Isane Kotetsu's page is near empty, but it's there. People cite the fact that she's a liutenant, but Hiyori is also the effective leader of the Vizard - is that position not of equal importance?

Ururu's Personality

Ururu is described as having an lolita-like persona. This is wildly inaccurate and misleading. She is not "a seductive adolescent girl", there is nothing remotely sexual or seductive about her. Considering she lives with two much older men, Urahara and Tessai, calling her lolita-like is not good. I think it would be better if someone rewrote the description of her personality. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.59.44.106 (talk) 23:48 15 April 2007

Agreed. I have removed that part. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 20:59, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Hiyori's article

I can't do this myself because I'm not that good with the language, but I think Hiyori deserves an article, she has done almost as much as Hirako in the story. And maybe we could consider giving Hacchigen one too. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 200.209.171.7 (talk) 17:03, 2 May 2007 (UTC).

While Hiyori's story signifigance is arguable [although I don't see her exactly having a full article's worth of content], Hacchigen is right out. He's been in all of three scenes where he's had any relevance, and we just don't know anything about him. Shinji has at least taken on several major opponents and has revealed his mask; Hacchigen is, at this point, just a plot device. As I said, though, Hiyori could be argued for, I imagine. - SilverBelial 21:38, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Err Several??? Shinji has only taken on Ichigo and GJ and he has had his own page since before the GJ fight. Hiyori also had her own page.

I also agree that Hiyori is deservant of her own page she is the leader of the Vaizard and the first one to be shown fighting with her mask (yes Ichigo had use the mask before but he wasn't in control and Shinji mearly summoned his) WhiteStrike 23:14, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm really not sure the vizard have a leader, they're just a bunch of misfits, not military like the shinigami. If anything, Shinji seems to be the one in charge. Hiyori is just the bossiest one of the lot.
But the real reason she doesn't have an article is that there is literally nothing to say about her. She was deemed too minor of a character to deserve one, and not part of a complete set like the Espada or Captains either. Her article was deleted by consensus at WP:AFD, so unless she does something new and important she doesn't get one. --tjstrf talk 23:22, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Espada is a complete set, and we don't have an article about Halibel and Stark

Kira, Shinji, Isshin, and Nnoitora

It seems no one on the Bleach Task Force is against merging those four to the end, so I've brought the matter directly to WP:FICT to be discussed. Send any opinions there should you find a reason to keep them. Artist Formerly Known As Whocares 23:06, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Go ahead and merge Kira, and Isshin if no one objects, but don't merge Nnoitra just yet, wait for him to release and see if he had enough relevancy. Shinji? Hell No!!! Hartebeest 14:47, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
And if you want, merge Ulquiorra, his article is a stub withought the synopsis section. Hartebeest 14:49, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
Shortening the plot seems to be causing some damage. Ulquiorra, Yumichika, Rangiku, and a few others have been lowered drastically and won't reach their same level again. Others simply aren't notable. I suggest we have another grand discussion about the characters once the plot is shortened for all articles and we discuss whether Ichigo should have plot or not. Until then, let's just wait to discuss them, except the ones already proposed. Artist Formerly Known As Whocares 15:30, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
We are not merging anybody until a clear consensus is reached. You can't just be rash and say "Go ahead, merge Kira" and expect people to do nothing. That'll will start edit wars, so why not we go over to WP:FICT and discuss these matters.--Hanaichi 08:50, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
Just about all merges cause arguments. Take into consideration, too, that a large number of the people who say "Keep them, they can be improved" to one that can be merged won't try in any way to improve that article (not that you're one, Hanaichi, you regularily contribute to the Bleach articles). Some of them like Shinji and Kira have no further hope of any improvement, while others who can aren't recieving any attention by the editors (Kon and Hitsugaya, for example). Simply put it, as I said in WP:FICT, we should only spend our time with the ones that can be improved from their current version, while ones that are already stubs and can't be improved any more, like Shinji and Kira, aren't worth our time. Artist Formerly Known As Whocares 19:56, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

I agree with you on Kira, he did not get any screen time since the Bounts, and might not make an appearance 'till Winter War, so I think it's okay to merge him now that Hinamori's merged. But I think we need to discuss about Shinji. Hartebeest 23:55, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Let's just have a majority vote (and by that I mean majority vote with guidelines or policies that lead to why it should be kept or merged, not just saying "I like/hate it" or something else rediculous) and get it over with. All those in favor of such say so. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Artist Formerly Known As Whocares (talk • contribs) 15:25, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
Do not merge - We already reached a consensus during our long long long argument in Too many articles topic. We will merge Nnoitra once his run is finished though.--Hanaichi 09:04, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

I think we should

Restore the article for Nell. I know we're trying to have as less articles as possible, but I think Nell will get enough relevancy and we should make an article for her when she releases or causes further plot development. EDIT: The article is deleted with no better reason than "not enough relevancy", and her article is almost 8 kilo long, compared the 4 kilo long article of Nnoitra. I'm going to restore it, if you wish to merge it for any reason, please post here or my talk page first Hartebeest 04:04, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Her article looks to be 5.5 kbs long, not 8. And as you might be aware, Nnoitra will be merged whenever he is inevitably killed. They're both in the same boat, I'd say. ~SnapperTo 04:49, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
Hartebeest, you need to figure out that discussion comes first. You don't make a thread then automatically do what you suggest. You wait for responses. I've remerged it after cleaning it up, there's not enough yet to bother. Same for Nnoitra for that matter, but he can stick around since he's established. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 05:39, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
@Someguy0830, I'm not a genius at english, so please explain what you mean by "established". @Snapper 2, it's 5.5 kilo cuz I shortened the synopsis, it's still longer than Nnoitra's 4. Hartebeest 22:30, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
Been around longer. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 23:13, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
Answer my question. Hartebeest 03:52, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
I did. "Been around longer", that's what it means. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 04:47, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
Lol. Okay so we won't redo Nel's article unless something makes it go to beyond 8 kb or something. --Hanaichi 09:05, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Oh LOL I thought you told me to be around longer (calling me a newb), didn't saw the past tense. Hartebeest 14:28, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Something you should all reconsider

A large number of you think that many of the character articles, like Soifon, are beyond merging, but it's quite the contrast. Look at my sandbox, where I described her entire article within three paragraphs. I urge you to rethink just who can and cannot be merged, as I could easily do the same with Yumichika, Matsumoto, and several other ones you also decided were definite keeps. Artist Formerly Known As Whocares 17:54, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

The three paragraphs that you wrote are fairly large and even by themselves would be enough for a separate article. Not to mention the synopsis and omake appearances, and you have a decent-sized article. Even on the Wikipedia-I mailing list (not sure if you read it), many users have expressed concerns over the abuse of WP:N and WP:FICT. Perhaps you should reconsider how these guidelines apply to the Bleach pages. Another thing I haven't thought of before, is what Jimmy Wales said once, that verifiability is the main criterion for inclusion in Wikipedia, not notability, which should always come later. Lastly, the List of Bleach characters page itself is 41 kilobytes long, which is long enough, and should be split if possible. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 18:08, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
I'm not telling you to merge them without any choice, Ynhockey, only that you should reconsider just who should and shouldn't be kept. Yes, I am well aware that there are many cases of policy/guideline (sometimes not even either) abuse throughout Wikipedia, but any site with so many rules will eventually have them abused (I believe there was this one Zelda fansite that made dozens of crazy rules, such as "you're banned if you call Ganon (the main antagonist of the video game series) "Gannon", the original translation), though I am not for any abuse of policies just to bring Wikipedia under your dictatorship. I also know that the Bleach multiple-character lists are very long, though considering how Bleach has an extensive cast, this is not suprising. Something that might help with this is removing the completely 100% unnotable characters (Chad's two friends, for example), like Naruto did, and that saved them a large amount of space, and making a few other multiple-characters lists articles, like one for all the captains. Simply put it, sahoving everybody that is part of the same race into a single, crammed article is not the way to go, so why not make sub-pages to make some space and allow you to go slightly more in-depth? As for the other case, notability is already on shaky ground, and verifiablility is always a must for any encyclopedia, so what Wales says makes perfect sense. Do not forget, however, notability, despite all its ocntroversy, is still high on the list of must-have's. Artist Formerly Known As Whocares 19:18, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Keigo & Kojima.JPG

Image:Keigo & Kojima.JPG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 10:04, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Darn, why is it that my fair use rationale are never valid? Oh well.--Hanaichi 11:05, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Deleting picture of tatsuki+classmates

after somebody added the tatsuki image, i wondered if that grouppicture of her didn't become unnecessary, because the classmates of inoue and tatsuki are like very very minor characters, and since tatsuki has her own picture now, what's the point in having a picture of her, plus a grouppicture of her including very minor characters? well of course inoue is in that picture as well but since she also has her own picture, the grouppicture has lost its purpose i think. so i've thought about removing the grouppicture, but I wanted to ask her first, since i can remember an editwar going on about that picture :). Should it be deleted? Twsl 14:27, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Well the classmate photo is there as to make sure nobody readds the Chizuru Honshu image. I vote for cropping the image (like cropping Tatsuki and Orihime out, maybe get a better view of Chizuru and Michiru) and keeping it for viewing purposes.--Hanaichi 14:38, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
I see. But, are Chizuru and Michiru really important enough to keep for viewing purposes? I mean, the total screentime of those characters can't be more than 5 mins i think. We can't even say that they're important characters in the lives of the main characters. For me, having a picture of them is the same as having a picture of Ganju's henchmen, but that's just my opinion, don't be offended :) Twsl 14:59, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
This page has a very large number of characters listed, and as such it would be better to have a group image showing multiple characters than an image showing only one of many. Artist Formerly Known As Whocares 22:17, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
I decided to be bold and replace Tatsuki's picture with the whole group picture. σмgнgσмg 06:27, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

I've noticed something...

In the cases of many characters, within their own article (or merged location) they are refered to by either their first or last name, sometimes both. In other articles mentioning them, the other name of the character is often used instead. This is confusing to the reader. The same thing went on in the MÄR articles. I suggest we have a large discussion and decide whether we use last names or first names. Artist Formerly Known As Whocares 18:07, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

I agree, such things should be standardized. --Eruhildo 01:43, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

How about now?

Now that Nell is gonna release, shouldn't she get an article? Hartebeest 02:17, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Bleh, lets just wait until she releases.--Hanaichi 03:00, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
Give her the frickin' page already! I've already put enough work into it and we'll know the name of her zanpakutou by next weekend any how. Her release command is utae, express. We don't even know what ol' meloncholly's sword's name is so why wait?! --Suiren
Unless you want the page to look like Nnoitra and get merged by everyone else, stop whinning. --Hanaichi 04:12, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
Just be patient. If there is suffice information then it will be time to create a new article for Nell. Otherwise, what is the point of having a stub-like article that will unfortunately get merged back into the main article anyway? σмgнgσмg 13:55, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Let's just get this over with

Let's just get the merges over with, alright? Say keep if you want to keep it, merge if you don't want to. Also, state reasons for each of them, and I mean beside those on Argument to avoid in deletion discussion, What Wikipedia is not, and other "reasons not to use" pages. Nnoitora is a special case, as it was decided a while ago to keep him until his role is over. A few weeks from now let's do Nel as well.

NOTE: Below is like a ballot. Add your vote to each so people know how many yes's and no's there are!

Already existing articles
Non existing

For keep: All eight Wikipedia lists as main, including Aizen, I say keep because they are main. Hitsugaya, Byakuya, Ichimaru, Zaraki, Yoruichi, and Ikkaku are major characters, have extensive zanpakuto information, and a few have out-of-universe info, namely Hitsugaya. Kon has out-of-universe information with the Radio-Kon-Baby and such. Mayuri, Ukitake, and Grimmjow I say yes to because I feel that the first has too much information for a merge, the second plays a major backround role, and the third plays a role right now. Tosen because there's no where to put him. I won't vote for Kariya until the plot is shortened, and because I'm not an expert on the Bount.

For merge: Kira, Shinji, Rangiku, Matsumoto, and Grantz are stubs and can be merged with ease. Isshin hasn't really done anything at all yet. Soifon's article is rather repetitive and cna be shortened greatly. Kaien is pretty short. Ulqiorra has yet to have enough information for me to say yes until I see him release his zanpakuto. Artist Formerly Known As Whocares 22:28, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

I thought we all discussed this that there would be no more merging..I'm going to say no for each one because I believe the format we have right now is absolutely perfect. And Grantz is hardly a stub, more of his back story I can see is coming soon, and his freakish zanpakuto may have more abilities then before. Kaien should be left alone because he a key character for Rukia's history. And Mayuri and Ukkitake have a lot of screen time (even though Mayuri's backstory hasn't been revealed, but Ukkitake's has) and Grimmjow is now Ichigos nemesis, now almost half-dead. I'm not even going to mention Kira or Matsumoto. I've said what I wanted to say, and now about Nell's status. How long have we seen her? 50-60+chapters? After we know the Zanpakuto, we should give her an article THIS week. Oh, why the bloody hell would you vote 'yes' Aizen to be merged? He's the major antagonist for christ's sakes!
Oh, and will people stop saying "merge Noitora and Grantz after their run is over!" Jesus, they've been barely introduced and will play a future role! It's crazy saying: "Oh, Ichigo's gotten a cool new super power, he'll kill Noitora and we'll merge him cuz we know he's going to die!" It's just speculation. Why don't people actually sit back and enjoy the manga, not predict deaths which they know aren't gonna happen..Oh, and if anyone's noticed, Szayel's article is bigger then Noitora's... There's my two cents. No more Merging, if you please. RedEyesMetal 09:12, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
It was only judged to temporarily stop the merging. And merges are needed, especially for the stubby articles like Shinji, Kira, and Matsumoto. I only brought this up so we could get it over with over who does or doesn't have articles. The Bleach task force has gotten to close to the idea of having a large number of character articles, several of which are stubs or easily mergeable. And I said "Yes" for keep and "No" for merge, Mr.Doesn't-Read-All-Of-My-Comments. ^_^
Seriously, this has gotten out of hand. I rather get the merging arguments over with, as right now the only article that seems to be a majority vote for yes right now is Kira (see above discussions before replying), yet far more than him are stubs or don't satisfy WP:FICT (techniqually only Orihime does for having out-of-universe info). Eventually the Bleach task force will have to realize quantity isn't quality, and merges will happen in the future, whether it be in two seconds or months from now. To answer your final question, that is what fan sites arefor. Wikipedia states facts. Artist Formerly Known As Whocares 06:20, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
Bleh, seriously, I have enough of this. I suppose Nel would get her article soon, if somebody could prove that her article won't be a stub like Kira or Nnoitra. =.= Anyway, as for merging, I vouch for merging Yumichika, Kira and Rangiku, seeing as their articles are REALLY stubs after the shortening of plot. However, I want to keep the Soifon, Ukitake, Mayuri and Kaien articles as they are important. --Hanaichi 09:53, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
To much merging left and right, I think that Rangiku and Yumichika should get to keep their own page seeing as how the have more info and background story then even some of the captains, Kira's can be merged. As far as Arrancar goes both Grimmjow and Ulquiorra should both keep their page seeing as how the have had the more interaction and shown more of theyr nature as opposed to the rest rest of the Arrancar (Nell excluded she should also have her own page). Bount wise Kariya should keep his page beeing as how he played a key role during that arc and enough info on him was gather, same for Shinji. As far as Ishin he's page should be converted to instead of beign about him, it beign about the whole Kurasaki family excluding Ichigo. Also Their should not even be a discussion on Characters such as Ichigo, Orihime, Sado, Uryu, Rukia, Renji, Kon and Urahara they are the main and have enough info to back them up. WhiteStrike 09:19, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Some of you failed to notice this, but you're supposed to edit the little list I made at the top so we can keep track easier on the merges and keeps. As most here say Kira should get merged, I'll do that. Artist Formerly Known As Whocares 16:51, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

If you guys don't want to start merging some of the smaller characters, I'll probably just go ahead and throw some random AfDs out there. I'll probably start with the minor Espada, Shinji, and Isshin. TTN 17:04, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Thats going to help solve the problem /sarcasm. Anyway, people, it would be get to the merging, this way the much needed histories aren't useless.--TheUltimate3 17:51, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
Unless you want to get past the notion that importance in the series judged by three to five users determines the necessity for an article, it will solve everything at once. TTN 20:52, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
Voted for everyone. And like I said, as of now, unless the article is deleted, it truly doesn't matter for me. If they are deleted, they can't be used for the Bleach Wiki, (everythings legalized, as far as we could make it.) So as far as that (and the other people who are sick of Wikipedia politics) this place is moot. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to see any article lost, but at this point...eh...--TheUltimate3 21:34, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

I just voted on all, mostly keep. Voted to merge some, like Kaien and Ukitake - their importance is overblown by far and they have appeared far less than Kira or Matsumoto. Also Kaien is backstory-only, which makes him minor by default, and Ukitake's article would be mostly backstory. Character importance should not be measured on backstory alone. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 20:08, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Updated poll. Momo, Kira, and Retsu are under non-existing. Voted no for Momo and Retsu. Still waiting for Jin's article to be updated. Artist Formerly Known As Whocares 00:06, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
My votes are in (I've been following this for awhile before I joined, in case anyone is wondering). TTN, you really consider Grimmjow to be a "minor" Espada? I don't deny that there are a number of them who have done nothing, but Grimmjow is certainly not one of them. Big red01027 10:25, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
Once again, this is becoming debatable. Okay, I agree with merging Kira, but Szayel and Noitora are still debatable. As of the latest chapter, you do realise, there are going to be very long battles coming up? As nearly all the current Espada are going to be involved in fights, (And I don't mean do something stupid like make articles everytime there's a release) plus they'll probably be one or two new surprises (like Zaraki having Bankai or Szayel's true reason why he wanted to help Noitora.) So, can we give Szayel and Noitora a bit more time please? I know they don't qualify for FICT, but they are the only active Espada as someone mentioned. Still, and whoever said Grimmjow was a minor espada needs to have their eyes checked. Last time I looked, He;s been around for a 100+ chapters, (First introduced in 199), so there you have that. Does longitivity mean anything to a character article, or is it based how far we go into a characters history/key role? RedEyesMetal 10:39, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
PS. I've voted, and someone forgot to add Noitora to the list, which I did. RedEyesMetal 10:43, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
It says at the top that judgment is being reserved on Nnoitra and Nel Tu for the moment. EDIT: And Bankai is for the WEAK. Big red01027 10:49, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
Whoever just tagged Grimmjow for deletion, please don't. We've discussed that he should stay. Its 5 votes Keep, 0 votes merge..RedEyesMetal 23:23, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
I just voted. Hanataro had importance in one arc and has otherwise been relegated to bit parts and omake. I would put him on par with Ganju, who does not have his own article. Ukitake does not have enough information to merit his own article, having about as much as Kyoraku. Kaien definitely does not merit an article, being only a flashback character without a lot of characterization; again I make a comparison to Ganju, Kaien's brother on whom we have more characterization but lacks an article. I think the only reason Isshin still has an article is because it was expected that his character would be developed upon in the near future (WP:CRYSTAL), but until that happens, he should be merged. Same goes for Shinji.
I don't think that Szayel will get beyond stub, but if we are going to wait on Nnoitra, I suppose a moratorium on Szayel is also fitting. I think Ulquiorra should also receive the moratorium treatment, as he may receive more characterization in the immediate future. Although I voted to keep Soifon's article, it is in major need of a cleanup, as much of it is from the omake and is of such minute detail as to border on the unnecessary. I did not cast a vote on Jin Kariya, as I am not entirely sure if he should retain an article. Majority (over 75%) of his article is plot summary; his article is basically plot coverage of the ENTIRE Bount arc. Until his article gets much needed cleanup, I think the issue should be revisited. Lore aura 03:39, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
Meh, finally voted. Hello, have you seen Szayel's article? Its like....BEYOND stub. He is on the same par as Mayuri. Nnoitra is a different case. I say merge him once his run is over, or if something spectacular about him happens we decide later. Mostly I voted keep, but the way Isshin, Yumichika and Kaien is going, I say merge. I voted merge on Hanataro as because he is only a comic relief, he has also been pushed out of the main storyline, not to mention he has only been important in the Soul Society arc. Curiously, if some people might want to save Grimmjows article from being deleted, please go here.--Hanaichi 04:04, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
Yes, I have read Szayel's article. I realize its on the same par as Mayuri, and the only reason why I don't suggest Mayuri for merging is that expect Mayuri to survive this arc, while Szayel is probably going to be a one-arc character. The distinction really borders on being solely preferential, but Mayuri, being one of the Shinigami captains, is someone who I think will survive this and continue to expand his article. Lore aura 03:26, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
I will admit, however, that "stub" was not the correct word to use. Much of the information in Szayel's article in my opinion goes into more detail than is necessary for character who is not major or principal secondary character, like the paragraph going into detail about his clothes. I usually focus more on the vital information and not just the size of the article. Based upon size, yes, Szayel's article is pretty substantial, but I think once this arc is over and pending Szayel's defeat, a few chapters' worth of hindsight will allow us to see what information in his article is vital and what is just icing on the cake. Lore aura 03:46, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Exactly what about WP:FICT do you guys not understand? Do you see anything in there that supports the thought that their role in the series decides anything? What exactly is your argument? TTN 15:34, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Then how about you just merge them instead of tagging deletion. Deletion loses all that valuable History.--TheUltimate3 02:21, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
You guys are stuck in the "numbers rule the world" mode and "I am a big fan, so this information is very important to me; even though it has been shown that it does not meet this site's policies and guidelines, but I'll still defend it anyways" mode, so I would be reverted with any attempt. TTN 12:57, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
TTN, it is you who don't seem to understand Wikipedia policies very well in this case. There's a very important policy on Wikipedia called WP:CON (Wikipedia:Consensus), which is a policy set in stone and should always be followed. On the other hand, there's a guideline called WP:FICT, it's not a policy, it's not set in stone, and as we have seen recently, it's not even stable, with many users wanting to introduce significant changes to it. Guidelines on Wikipedia are meant to help users keep Wikipedia consistent, and not to dictate anything. For example, if a user starts a new article, the guideline called WP:MOS helps users understand how to format an article so that it looks like other Wikipedia articles, and there's no good reason that it shouldn't be followed. However, if there's a good reason not to follow a guideline on Wikipedia (e.g. WP:CON, WP:IAR per WP:COMMON, etc.), then it can be ignored in its entirety, unlike a policy. I really don't understand what your motivation is behind shoving these deletions down everyone's throats, but maybe you should stop accusing others of not adhering to policy and re-reading these policies yourself. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 13:32, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Consensus: "When consensus is referred to in Wikipedia discussion, it always means 'within the framework of established policy and practice'. Even a majority of a limited group of editors will almost never outweigh community consensus on a wider scale, as documented within policies."
FICT is built from WP:V, WP:RS, and WP:N, which are the basic building blocks of this site. It is quite stable, and the only proposed addition is for non-notable lists (like this one) rather than articles. If you want to be specific: this fails WP:N. These also fail WP:NOT#PLOT for being made up of 95% plot details and all that junk. Do not try to twist things that you do not have a grasp of. TTN 13:41, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
Another thing you should re-read, TTN:
A quote from WP:FICT (November 10, 2007):
To a limited extent, sub-articles are sometimes born for technical reasons of length or style. Even these articles need real-world information to prove their notability, but must rely on the parent article to provide some of this background material (due to said technical reasons).[3] In these situations, the sub-article should be viewed as an extension of the parent article, and judged as if it were still a section of that article. Such sub-articles should clearly identify themselves as fictional elements of the parent work within the lead section, and editors should still strive to provide real-world content.
This applies here very much. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 13:37, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
And finally: From WP:FICT once again (this page in a nutshell):
This page in a nutshell: Topics within a fictional universe are notable if they have received substantial coverage in reliable secondary sources. Non-notable information should be deleted only when other options have been exhausted.
This is a reply to your attempts to completely delete some articles. Clearly, not all other options have been exhausted. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 13:39, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
This applies to lists and possibly the main character to a limited extent in the future (I think there is a current discussion about that). If you even try to use it with minor characters, you are just wikilawyering. And if you do not believe that, feel free to ask over there. That was applied to allow the basic details to be given if the main article cannot hold them, not defend fan articles. TTN 13:41, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
Heh I think Matsumoto shouldn't be merged for some reasons, one she is very close to Ichimaru Gin, who is a pretty big character and she was in 3 arcs Soul Soceity, Bount, and Arrancar. She has appeared more times than many of the captains and she has, however usless this is a episode about her and Kon. She also has a little short story about her and Shouta.Ultimaterasengan (talk) 01:20, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:NonFreeImageRemoved.svg

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BetacommandBot 03:21, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:ClassmatesofOrihime.JPG

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BetacommandBot 03:21, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Fixed. Fox816 03:28, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:ClassmatesofOrihime.JPG

Image:ClassmatesofOrihime.JPG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot 13:48, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:ClassmatesofOrihime.JPG

Image:ClassmatesofOrihime.JPG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot 13:49, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

There is something wrong with this bot =.= Fixed and removed the tag there. --Hanaichi 13:56, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Improvements

Okay, since the merging stopped, we should now focus on cleaning up the articles, most notably the oversized plot summaries. I plan to rewrite Ichigo's summary in my sandbox, as it is tooo long. I suggest not more than 8 paragraphs for each plot section, give or take one or two paragraphs. It should be about 1 - 2 paragraphs per each arc, like the beginning can be 1, Soul Society (2 arcs) can be 3, Bount arc about 2, Arrancar arc 1, and Hueco Mundo should be 2. Thats 9 in total, and I'm talking about LONG paragraphs. --Hanaichi 09:21, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. Hartebeest 22:46, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
Characters should not receive plot summaries. They need a description of their overall role that is no longer than three paragraphs. This is to go along with WP:NOT#PLOT. TTN 22:58, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
But then we'll need a summary for Bleach characters, it was removed cuz of character's synopsis section, maybe we should rewrite them. Hartebeest 23:17, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
No respond? Oh well then I'll just go ahead and delete. Hartebeest 23:45, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
Why is everyone identifying my edits as vandalism? Do I have to tell everyone that I'm going to delete the Synopsis section before I make a move? Maybe I do, but I'll tell you only if you reverted it:(. Hartebeest 23:54, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
Because you're blanking whole sections without edit summaries, and it's not the solution. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 23:58, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
If you are going to remove plot summaries from articles because they're too long, it would be nice if you replaced them with highly condensed versions of the same material. Simply removing 50% of an article is not the right way to do things. ~SnapperTo 02:13, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
I suggest using a test page first, Hartebeest, and ask people to look at the summary you do there. IF its okay, then we only replace the plot summaries in the articles. That way, you will notice people won't revert you. We usually wait a few days for respond, not 1 hour.--Hanaichi 09:22, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm back. Sorry to disappoint you, but under WP:FICT, only major characters can have articles unless there is enough information (including out-of-universe) for them to have articles, and local majority can't defeat a large majority elsewhere, and majorites on policies count more than local majorites. Kira, Nnoitora, and Grantz simply aren't notable, and no one has yet to state a real reason to keep them other than a failed WP:FICT. I will give you a chance for Grantz, however, to make a reason to keep him, but Kira and Nnoitora should just be merged. Artist Formerly Known As Whocares 21:48, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Artist, WP:CON is a policy which overrules guidelines like WP:FICT, which, to add to that, is unstable at the moment and under revision. If there is clear consensus against your deletions, the articles will stay. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 22:50, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
@Hanachi: A test page? Do you mean the sandbox? @Artist: When I removed the Synopsis section for Noitra, the article's only 3 kilobytes long, making it nothing more than a stub. But still we should wait, cuz Noitra's gonna release soon, he doesn't stand a chance against Nell without releasing. Hartebeest 23:26, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Yup, the sandbox, user space, whatever you call it. I have also redid the Bleach character list template in my sandbox, when Aizen gets transited, and it looks fine. Artist, yes we know what is under WP:FICT, but they are notable, even though they look stubby. Nnoitra is going to release soon like Hartebeest say, or Nell will kill him, so there will be something to add to his zanpakuto section. Grantz, is SO similar to Mayuri that I don't know what to do with him.--Hanaichi 07:17, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
I would just like to point out that is is not wise to use "will release SOON" or "Nell WILL kill..." as a reason. The whole not a crystal ball comes to mind. Just wanted to poin that out.--TheUltimate3 10:22, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
It's certainly true that we are making making stuff up, but that's what will most likely happen. We cannot just delete the ENTIRE plot summary, just condense it a little.--Hanaichi 11:02, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm beginning to notice alot of the shortenings are two paragraphs or more. Really, however, the only ones that should are the eight we list as "main" (including Aizen, since he's a major plot builder), and the ones who barely miss the title of "main" (Only Hitsugaya and Byakuya so far do). All the others can be put in one paragraph. Artist Formerly Known As Whocares 00:35, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Well, atleast there are shortenings of paragraphs. But when you squished the ENTIRE plot summary into a one paragraph, it becomes very confusing. Reading orientation and sequence of events are important when explaining such things, and the reader probably won't get what we are trying to say in a paragraph.--Hanaichi 09:20, 25 September 2007 (UTC)