Talk:List of Bleach characters

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Anime and manga, which aims to improve and expand anime and manga related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit this article or visit the project page.
Start This article has been rated as Start-Class on the assessment scale.
死神 This article is supported by the Bleach work group.
Archive
Archives
1, 2, 3


Contents

[edit] Cleanup

With the recent cleanup done to the Naruto characters (resulting in two GAs: Sasuke Uchiha and Sakura Haruno, and Kakashi Hatake at WP:GAN), a similar approach can be taken here.

The following in terms of merges should likely take place. For the sake of brevity, I will point to WP:FICT, as several of the editors here are involved in editing the Naruto characters and are familiar with the reasoning. Taken realistically, the grand majority of the present characters do not meet the aforementioned guideline, and should be merged into a list, as they will likely never survive an AfD. Please note that whether these articles are kept or not depends entirely on the degree of reception they get from reliable independent sources. "Importance" to the plot is irrelevant, "future importance" is original research and speculation, and mere popularity (in other words, solely having the Shonen Jump polls) does not guarantee one an article. Anyhow, the following are my recommendations in terms of merging:

Keep:

Fairly straightforward. Note that characters featured relatively early in the plot stand the best chance of acquiring articles, as they are the ones who get reception from English sources, which is where the entirety of our reception information is coming from.

Ambiguous:

Sado is featured early, but slightly less prominently than his peers. Aizen is probably fine, but I'm iffy as well.

Merge:

All either far too minor, featured far too late for any significant English reception, or both.

How they will be merged, or rather what they will be merged into is one of the subjects of this discussion. The character lists also need major cleanup, but I would rather resolve the issue of merging before moving onto that. Anyway, as for the character articles that stay, they would be reformatted practically the same way as the aforementioned Naruto character GAs, and the in-universe information reduced to a manageable amount. Discuss. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 03:42, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree on the need to merge, and support merging all of the suggested ones and the ambiguous ones into either this list, or the other appropriate character list. For the keeps...I would agree Ichigo should be able to support a stand alone article. While the others have early appearances, I'm not sure they have the real-world to support, but would agree on giving them a chance. Collectonian (talk) 04:36, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
Merge all those suggested as soon as the ArbCom thing is over. They really aren't all that notable and truly should be merged. If WP:SIZE concerns anyone in terms of merging the shinigami, maybe a major and minor list is in order. Either way, this needs to be done. Sasuke9031 (talk) 04:45, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
I disagree. There is a lot of information to work with. Instead if shrinking it, FIX them. That's what WikiProjects are for. Neovu79 (talk) 05:35, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
I think Chad and Aizen are worthy of keeping their articles, and I'd argue in favor of Urahara and Grimmjow as well, although there should probably some more out of universe information for all of them if available. The others should definitely be merged in their present state. How Soifon even has an article is beyond me.Kuwabaratheman (talk) 05:12, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
I'd think Urahara could sustain an article, though I suppose the amount of mystery surrounding him doesn't help much in that regard. Aizen and Chad should be fine by themselves. ~SnapperTo 06:28, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
(Thank you for telling me about this, Sephiroth) I agree with those that have made the keep list, and the two that mabye the iffy list and Urahara should also be considered (not saying yes or no yet, however). I once merged Soifon, Rangiku, and Ukitake, (they were reverted, though) so you could use my old versions to merge them. The rest will be a more difficult matter. Bleach is not as popular a series as Naruto, however, and thus there is not a definite answer to how much info we can find on these characters, so we should see the degree of out-of-universe info about the ones you suggested for keep along with my three iffy ones before we stick to who does get kept and who doesn't. If there is not much, then a merge will be appropriate. This won't be as easy as was Naruto for another reason, and that is that we at the Naruto articles had already finished most of the merging, unlike here. Artist Formerly Known As Whocares (talk) 17:50, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
Sorry to post after myself, but if I have read correctly here, article related to televisions series are no longer to be deleted, redirected, merged, unredirected, unmerged, or undeleted until a final decision is made. Until such is made, all we can do is discuss our options. Artist Formerly Known As Whocares (talk) 18:47, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
Naturally, no actual merging will be done until the conclusion of that particular arbitration case, but it doesn't hurt to get the ball moving. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 23:05, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
It also isn't against the injunction to begin including the material into the target article. Merge or no merge, the characters should be summarized on the list anyways. --Farix (Talk) 23:14, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
From the requests for clarifications that actually got answered, the merge work in terms of editing and moving in content can be done before the injunction is listed, I think. Its just the merged in articles can't be redirected or deleted, and no new tags added regarding merging or notability. Collectonian (talk) 23:26, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
Which is why some of us are trying to get the ball rolling. The injunction was useful at first, but it's blown into full on annoying. On the hindrance scale, it's about a 7.9. Sasuke9031 (talk) 00:04, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
Everything looks pretty solid. There's really nothing more I can add apart from support and helping in the merges. To save on size, we could possibly try keeping the information about individual soul reaper zanpakuto's to a bare minimum seeing as the Zanpakuto have their own article and information is straight-forward and detailed there already. Possibly just a couple of liners of direct info : commands and shikai / bankai forms (not abilities which can be read over in the zanpakuto article). Fox816 (talk) 03:57, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
This is a lot of information to merge into one page. Instead of merging, why can't people focuss there energy into fixing each individual page because there is a lot of information for each character to work with. Neovu79 (talk) 05:33, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Just so y'all know, the injunction ceased to be in effect as of a few hours ago, so if you want to further discuss this and/or merge anything, it's OK now. Thanks for sticking it out through the "Month of Hell" and good luck. Sasuke9031 (talk) 00:34, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

I would definitely not support the merger of Urahara's article. Given the central place he has within bleach and the relative amount of information given about him he is certainly important enough to warrant a separate article. 137.73.22.142 (talk) 11:19, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Chad is a main character. Merge him, and you might as well merge everyone into one big, fat, messy laundry list. Urahara is also far too pivotal a character to have his article merged. His article is currently substantial, and will only become more refined as the series progresses and his character continues to develop (which it will). Merging Aizen, the primary antagonist, is similarly silly. The only suggested merges that do make any sense at all to me are: Ikkaku, Isshin, and potentially Matsumoto and Rangiku. Mayuri is not the series's primary antagonist, but he is Ishida's primary antagonist, and has played a major role in both the SS and HM arcs. He has also appeared in the recent flashback arc, and has been linked with Urahara. Ukitake isn't as major a figure, currently, as Mayuri, but occupies an instrumental role in the story as Rukia's mentor. Ukitake is guaranteed to receive further development, and merging him now will just mean making a new article for him later. (His article is substantial, as is, anyway.) Yoruichi goes hand-in-hand with Urahara in terms of plot-relevance: she is the piece that he moves on the board, and her influence in the SS arc was enormous. Ichimaru and Tousen, I suppose, might "justifiably" be merged on the poor basis that neither has "done much," which would be untrue, but again, merging them now would mean making them new articles later. They are Aizen's right-hand men, Tousen especially has already been quite fleshed out, and Ichimaru will be - the plot has dropped more teasing remarks about Ichimaru than substantial ones about Isshin. Ulquiorra and Grimmjow might also be merged under the logic that would merge Tousen and Ichimaru, but Ulquiorra and Grimmjow are the HM arc's top dogs, in terms of plot, Grimmjow even more so for being Ichigo's rival. And Kon - poor Kon - I guess he could be merged because he plays such a little role in the narrative, but in my mind, he embodies all of Bleach's comedy - he's like a physical representation of part of what makes the show itself - and his article, like all of these articles, currently IS substantial. The only reason it would "need" to be merged is if someone wanted to act in the capacity of a righteous clean-up crew. And as for Soifon, while she might not be major, she is a solid and developed character with cards up her sleeve which she hasn't yet come close to showing. She's larger than minor, though not quite major, but major enough to get her own article. So, in my mind:
MUST KEEP: Chad, Aizen, Urahara, Yoruichi, Mayuri, Ukitake
Should Keep: Soifon, Ichimaru, Tousen, Ulquiorra, Grimmjow
Could Be Merged Potentially, But Have What Are Currently Good Articles Anyway: Ikkaku, Matsumoto, Isshin, Kon
And actually, I think that Ikkaku and Yumichika should share their own article. CowofYes (talk) 04:10, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Comment: Let me just say about Mayuri, have you seen how much content we have on him? Sure, he lacks concept and creation notes, but look how much we've learned about him in terms of character development. If you wanna try and cut all that information on him into 3/4 Paragraphs then I'm sorry, you are out of your mind. Anyway, I'm trying to look for some real-world reception for him, wish me luck. Aizen, I'm trying to dig up some stuff also, if anyone could lend me hand, I'd be grateful. RedEyesMetal (talk) 11:35, 23 April 2008 (UTC)


I realise my opinon probbaly doens't matter, but we can't merge Isshin into the List of Current Shingami. If we do that, we spoil an EXTREMELY late chapter where that is revealed. If Isshin is not kept seperate, you will be spoiling his part of the Plot, infact, you might have already spoiled some of it because of that Tag at the top of his page. I also belive that the Espada should get sperate Articles. It might not make much sense, but the Espada, more then any other hollow, deserve their own pictures of Realeses, and I have noticed that most of the joint pages have almost no pictures at all. Not giving the Espada pictures of their release and Zanpaktous, would be the equivalant of not showing the Known Captain's Shikais, or Renji's. They are important characters, even if they recive little page time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.13.185.207 (talk) 18:10, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a spoiler free zone and we don't do anything to try to hide spoilers. For a character to have its own article, they must have real-world notability and meet the requirements of WP:FICT. Their role within the series is irrelevant. Collectonian (talk) 18:16, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
If that was true, we wouldn't have spoiler warnings on the pages, but there are. He isn't going to win any popularity contests, I will admit that, but then again, neither will Renji, or even Ichigo anymore, due to the "Hitsuyga Boom" as I refer to the fact that he just jumped up to the top as fast as he did, but at the same time, you can't say that it has to be focused purely on their outside Notability, that makes no sense, because then Ulquorria should keep his own Atricle, and Momo should have her own, as should everyone else who reached the Top 10 this last time, btu thats not the case, because some of the favirotes have too little information to actually make an article, while Isshin has enough information to make one, he has been in just about every volume so far, and many more then Momo, so you can't say that it should be based on Popularity in the Real World alone. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.13.185.207 (talk) 16:08, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
If there are spoiler warnings, they should be removed immediately. They don't belong, period. As for the est, it has nothing to do with "popularity" in the real world, but notability, which is a different issue. Their roles in the series, their popularity among fans, etc has absolutely nothing to do with whether they meet the requirements for their own articles. Its the availability of real-world, reliably sourced content on the characters real world aspects, including creation/conception, reception, and any cultural impacts. If all you can say about the character is a plot summary and the results of reader popularity polls, he/she isn't notable and at best belongs in a list of characters list.Collectonian (talk) 16:18, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
Feel free to point out where the spoiler warnings are and we'll be happy to remove them for you. Fox816 (talk) 17:29, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

For what it's worth, I've seen Urahara hat replicas for sale as official Bleach merchandise. I dunno if that fits into cultural impacts or whatever, but it's there. StardustDragon 17:43, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

We who are working on the Bleach articles are currently hoping to make our character articles look like the Naruto characters articles, FOUR!!!! of which are of GA-status. The Naruto articles contain not only stuff from the plot, but also information about the creation and reception of the characters, and their appearances in media that are not part of the serialization, all of which have reliable, third-part sources not related to Kishimoto's serialization. In short, except for Rukia Kuchiki, all of the Bleach character articles are FAR from the standards of the Naruto character articles. Unless a Bleach character article can recieve that much coverage, then keeping them is a direct violation of the policies and guidelines of Wikipedia on creating articles about fiction. Artist Formerly Known As Whocares (talk) 23:00, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
I would agree to merge all of the articles listed for merging, with perhaps the exception of Kisuke Urahara. I would add him to the ambiguous list for now, since he has received just about as much characterization as Aizen if not more. 4.129.80.219 (talk) 19:19, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

We're no longer working with how much plot-related information we have on the characters. The only reason to justify keeping them is if they have a large number of information on their creation, reception, merchandising, and appearances in other media. Plot stuff, like where they were in this episode or whatnot, doesn't really matter. Only small summaries should be given for those characters (hence with the Naruto character articles). Artist Formerly Known As Whocares (talk) 20:05, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

  • And what's so special in Kenpachi Zaraki? I think article about Aizen should stay, instead of Kenpachi Zaraki. --deerstop (talk) 22:33, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
What's-so-special about Kenpachi is that he probably has enough reception information, along with any other out-of-universe content, to become a GA-article. Same with Aizen. As was said: WE ARE NOT KEEPING ARTICLES BECAUSE OF THE AMOUNT OF IN-UNIVERSE CONTENT!!!!! 98.21.136.27 (talk) 22:17, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
  • There's no any reception information in his article. --deerstop (talk) 17:12, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Voice

Did anyone find out last night who played the voice of Kuroudo? I tried to read the end credits, but it was difficult. 209.247.23.41 (talk) 18:29, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Merge

On several articles (e.g., list of Bounts in Bleach) a merge with this article has been proposed.

  • Oppose; the article is going to bee too long for Wikipedia's standards. Lysis rationale (talk) 21:44, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Clean up Part II - Getting references etc.

I'd like to say that I've been digging up character reception and other information for the characters and I've found some info for Ishida, Kon, Renji, Byakuya, Aizen & Gin. The sections do need re-writing though...and I'm still looking for out-of-universe information concerning Kisuke, Ukitake & Mayuri. I am trying hard and I really don't want them to be merged. RedEyesMetal (talk) 18:06, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Layout and merging

See my sandbox. Similar to List of Naruto characters. In sections describing groups, characters get listed in prose similar to Characters of Kingdom Hearts, as putting headers for individual characters when they are being listed in prose feels weird. Discuss. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 01:39, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

It looks good. Very clean. The only change I would make is instead of "Other Inhabitants" just make it "Other". Inhabitants is sort of an iffy plus we can include some of the stand alone main characters like Senna from the movie as well as the Mod Souls under that listing. Fox816 (talk) 01:54, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Senna would actually be more appropriate on the actual movie article, and I don't think any of the mod souls except Kon (who can go under "Kurosaki family") really need to be mentioned (the Bount arc ones can go under "Urahara Shop"). The only mod soul besides these two is Chappy, who appears for one episode and that's really it, as far as I can remember. And I think "inhabitants" can work, as it's an actual place, and Ganju, Kukaku, the one gatekeeper Ichigo fought (his name eludes me at the moment), and all the characters in the present arc can be included there. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 02:21, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
The main problem with giving Bleach articles the "Naruto treatment" (for lack of a better term) is that the characters' abilities are so intricate. With Naruto you can leave it at just the effect (ie. Shino controls bugs + room to elaborate), whereas with Bleach you've got zanpakuto name (translations + kanji + romanji), release command (translations + kanji + romanji), appearance before and after its releases, released effect, and finally anything else worthy of note. Including all of that leaves you with twice as much content as a character with an equal level of impact in Naruto. A solution for this is needed if you're going to put so many characters on the same page. ~SnapperTo 03:25, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, that's my big issue here, and why I realized that trying to merge List of Soul Reapers in Bleach simply wasn't going to happen. As for this list, the only section I can really see this becoming an issue in is the Espada section, but let's look at an rough example of how it would look.

...Zommari Leroux, the Seventh Espada, is the self-proclaimed fastest Espada, with his movement fast to the point that he form afterimages when he moves. His zanpakutō, Brujería (呪眼僧伽（ブルヘリア） Buruheria?, Spanish: "witchcraft," Japanese: "sangha of bewitching eyes"), is released with the command "suppress" (鎮まれ shizumare?), and covers his body with eyes, replacing his legs with a circular structure with eyes on it as well. When he gazes upon something with one of his eyes, he can take control of its movements. The Eighth Espada is Szayel Aporro Granz, the scientist of the Espada, and as a result, he is adept at analyzing his opponent's abilities and nullifying them using his inventions. When released with the command "sip" (啜れ susure?), Szayel's zanpakutō, Fornicarás (邪淫妃（フォルニカラス） Forunikarasu?, Spanish: "will fornicate," Japanese: "lewd concubine") grants him a pair of long wing-like structures while covering his lower body with tentacles. In this form, Szayel can utilize a variety of abilities, including making clones of his opponents, creating voodoo dolls of them in order to destroy their internal organs, and impregnating himself into his opponent in order to reproduce himself while tearing his host apart...

So yeah, it's long. I suppose you could cut out the naming details and go the "Naruto route" by simply stating what his abilities are in his regular and released states without going into naming, but I would like to preserve the information (although I'm increasingly seeing this as the route we have to go, at least for very minor characters). Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 05:59, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Well, on second thought, it wouldn't be that long (at least for now). #1-4 have shown no abilities (although you would have a bit more detail for Ulquiorra), #5-9 are the big chunk, and Yammy can be summed up in a sentence or two. It would be a bit long, but I suppose it could work. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 06:06, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Oh, so you are going the prose route. Either way, while size issues might initially be avoided, problems are going to arise eventually. All the Espada, the handful of notable hollows/arrancar, Uraraha, Yoruichi, Tessai, Isshin, Aizen and friends, the Vizard, and the Bount (though the dolls don't seem that complex?) are undoubtedly going to have release information by the end of the series. That creates a great size burden, especially when the kb-consuming refs are added for all of it. You could skip over naming details as is done with the Naruto articles, but that would seem rather incomplete. Not to emulate the Naruto articles, but a List of Bleach antagonists would be the best way to alleviate some of the inevitable pressure without sacrificing content. ~SnapperTo 18:14, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, you're right. The page is going to get really long at this rate. List of Bleach antagonists is probably warranted. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 18:18, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Merging

Oh, and just to clarify, the following would be merged:

My big sticking point is making sure that the page doesn't get so big, which is why I inserted a {{main}} template for the Gotei 13 pointing to List of Soul Reapers in Bleach. I'm still iffy on the notability on the lesser members in the "protagonists" section, but oh well. List of hollows in Bleach is a giant collection of one-shot enemies and in-universe summary that needs to go (do we need to cover the hollow Ichigo kills in the first episode and every subsequent one he kills during the first arc?). The Espada can be summarized in the antagonists section (present article has four paragraphs on a twenty chapter character, and we have to have a whole paragraph on appearance for every character?), but how best to organize it (bold headers + span tags to avoid having to use lots of level four headers is my preference, or it can just be solid prose). Onto the rest of the articles, the following simply need to go, as they're AfD bait.

  • Quincy (Bleach) - completely in-universe, long list of attacks, WP:NOT#PLOT bait.
  • Soul Reaper (Bleach) - same reason. Material is way too detailed and can be summarized at List of Soul Reapers in Bleach.
  • Hollow (Bleach) - same reason.
  • Bount - same reason, and even less justifiable than the previous two.
  • Kidō - giant list of attacks, more WP:NOT#PLOT bait. We lost the jutsu lists at the Naruto articles, and kidō is far less prominent in the Bleach universe than jutsu is in the Naruto universe.
  • Zanpakutō - giant list of weapons, NOT#PLOT bait, etc. We already discuss zanpakutō for practically all characters, so this article is really redundant.

I can see a Bleach universe or Universe of Bleach article having some weight, considering that I think the setting receives some reception, so the above can fit nicely into it. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 02:10, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

I agree with the merge idea.--Tintor2 (talk) 02:15, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
I agree with the merge idea and the planned arrangement. Looks like a good, neutral way to sort them. I also agree on the need to deal with the rest of the articles. I don't know if a Bleach universe type article would work. Any thing available about it other than some reception? Creation/conception for example? -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 02:25, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Soul Reaper has survived two afds, so the kido, zanpakuto can go there. Hollow page can go into the hollow list I suppose, and the Espada list too, maybe. Bount and Quincy onto the character page. As long as at least the main characters have pages, I won't complain. — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 02:43, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Good idea. I agreed that the Espada split was ok for WP:SIZE but I think the Espada, like the Akatsuki, have worn out their welcome and a full antagonist section is warranted at this point. I'd also go for a merge for just about everything you covered with maybe the Urahara article being merged yet copied to a sandbox for anyone with way too much free time on their hands to maybe find some info that asserts notability, much like Tintor is doing with Itachi in his userspace. Sasuke9031 (talk) 04:59, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Sure, Hollows and Espada should be merged into something like List of Naruto antagonists, alhough I suppose that simply summarizing Espada as prose text is a bad idea (it'll mess them). As for Bleach universe... Seemes that the main point of interest and reception in the universe is the shinigami world. What else? --deerstop (talk) 13:27, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Ah, Sephiroth BCR, in your sandbox, which group Don Kanonji belongs to? ^_^ --deerstop (talk) 14:00, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Collectonian, to answer your question, concept/creation information is hard to find since NONE of the Bleach databooks have been released in English, neither the artbooks. I've been trying to find if theres a translation online, but then no luck still. So I'm sorry to say, reception is the only thing we can work with. As for Kisuke, I'm still working on finding universe reception for him. I'll have a bit more...RedEyesMetal (talk) 06:47, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
By universe, you are referring to out-of-universe, right? Sasuke9031 (talk) 20:39, 11 June 2008 (UTC)