Talk:List of Azerbaijanis

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List of Azerbaijanis contains people who are not Azerbaijanis:

Some of these people were lucky to escape from ethnic cleansing and discrimination, that took place in Azerbaijan. User:72.25.94.53 (vandal Rovoam) 05:38, Jun 17, 2005 text attribution by --Tabib 12:21, Jun 17, 2005 (UTC)

Btw, this vandal probably forgot to mention that all those prominent Azerbaijani Jews that he mentions occupy prominent place in the history of Azerbaijan and are very loved and respected. Rostropovich often visits Baku, his native city, and gives charity concerts for his former compatriots. Azerbaijan has excellent relationship with Israel namely because there was no anti-Semitism in Azerbaijan and there is a large Azerbaijani Jewish disapora in Israel.--Tabib 12:21, Jun 17, 2005 (UTC)
Actually, I believe Rostropovich is Russian Orthodox and not Jewish. However, Kasparov is of mixed Armenian/Jewish descent, while Lotfi Zadeh is of mixed Azeri/Jewish descent. 146.169.6.97 18:21, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
What is this? What do Iranian Azerbaijani's have to do with famous people from the R. of Azerbaijan? This is ridiculous, this is like having a list of famous Americans and having Canadians on the list... I will filter out the irrelevant information after discussion.Khosrow II 16:19, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
For now I have put Iranian where it applies and have taken out figures to old to be considered Azeri in the modern sense.Khosrow II 16:33, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
It actually a list of famous people from both Azerbaijans, regardless of ethnicity. It does not matter if people were ethnic Azeris or not, as long as they are from Azerbaijan, they are relevant to this list. Grandmaster 07:29, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
Which Azerbaijan are you talking about? Dont confuse the two please. Also, I just added Iranian to their description, I did not take them off the list completely. If you want to still insist that they are the same people, fine, I wont remove their names, but I will say that they are Iranians.Khosrow II 15:23, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
hejj, what an anti-semitism! remember that Azerbaijani is an umbrella term which includes all people living in Azerbaijan either Republic of, or Iranian Azerbaijan. Ali
I suggest to rename the article "List of Azerbaijanis" to "List of famous people from Azerbaijan". These are two very different terms. The most people I know are considering the term "Azerbaijani" as an ethnic group, not as people from Azerbaijan. I've heard that Garri Kasparov represents himself as "rossiyanin", and not Azerbaijani, and I also hope, that our neighbours do not lose pride from it. Something more: if Kasparov or Rokhlin are Azerbaijanis, why aren't Marshals Baghramian and Babajanian also in the list? Born in Azerbaijan! shaloun
This is not a list of ethnic Azeris, the very first line says:
This is a list of prominent people from the Republic of Azerbaijan (or, previously, the Azerbaijan SSR) and Iranian Azerbaijan. The list includes both Azerbaijanis, and members of other ethnicities from the region.
You can add to the list the persons mentioned by you as well. Grandmaster 12:42, 16 January 2007 (UTC)


Contents

[edit] Compromise

Baku87 has suggested that we move all Iranian Azeri's to the Famous Iranians list and give them their own section like famous Iranian Armenians.Khosrow II 19:36, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

On the other hand, this doesnt really make anysense, because in the case of Armenians, they were forcibly moved to Iran in the relatively recent past. I say we just include all these people to the famous Iranians page, simple as that (excluding the ones from the republic ofcourse).Khosrow II 19:43, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
They speak the same language, they both call themselves azerbaijanis but they are not the same?? Canadians and Americans don't call themselves the same thing, so the analogy is not correct kozie.. However, in this case they both call themselves azeris, and they speak the same language, they just happen to live in different countries for geopolitical reasons greater than them, like the Kurds.. Baristarim 01:39, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
The fact is that one of them changed their name to Azeri only 80 years ago! They are not the same people. If Canadians change their name to American, that will not make them so. The same here. Anglo Saxon Canadians, Australians, Americans, New Zealanders, etc... are not classified as English men. All I see here is some Turks trying to supress the fact that a) most of the people on this list are Iranians that have nothing to do with the R. of Azerbaijan, and b) that the R. of Azerbaijan and Iranian Azerbaijan are two seperate entities.Khosrow II 02:33, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
No original research is allowed here. According to authoritative sources, Azerbaijani people living in the Republic of Azerbaijan and Iran are the same Turkic people. See Encyclopædia Britannica Article:
Azerbaijani - any member of a Turkic people living chiefly in the Republic of Azerbaijan and in the region of Azerbaijan in northwestern Iran. At the turn of the 21st century there were some 7,500,000 Azerbaijani in the republic and neighbouring areas and more than 15,000,000 in Iran. [1]
As you can see from the above, Azeris on both sides of Araks are the same people and are regarded as such by the scholarly sources. They just happen to live in two different countries, and some people in Iran in fear of Azeri separatism try to persuade Iranian Azeris that they are not the same people as their brethren in the independent country. But wikipedia should be free of politics and provide only accurate information. Grandmaster 07:19, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
I suggest to create a new section in this page called "iranian azerbaijanis" to calm down this iranians and include all of them into this section regardless of their professions. Ali

[edit] Procection

I think this article need to be protected for a while until this POV pushing by Iranians calms down. Baku87 18:06, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Opera singers

hejj, every time i add a new name to this page -Fatma Mukhtarova- who was one of two first women opera singers of Muslim East but someone deletes it. Who does it? I have a source Huseynov Rafael.Thousand and second night(in Azeri), this book is something like Manaf Suleimanov's Heard,read,seen. please answer.Ali

[edit] Anoosheh Ansari

Correct me if I am wrong, but I do not believe Anoosheh Ansari is an Azeri and only the media of the republic of Azerbaijan said this. She is from Mashhad and she does not speak any Azeri. Unfortunately Chehregani's group put a false information that she was born from Tabrizi parents in Tehran and then the media of the republic of Azerbaijan promogulated it.

According to the following sources she speaks Persian, French and English: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/12/science/space/12tourist.html?_r=1&ref=science&oref=slogin

http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2006/09/141fd0f7-8cf3-45e0-83e4-d534dc4ea152.html

and when I checked her blog, Persian and English and French music was mentioned but didn't find Azeri. This was the information I found in a website that first claimed she is Azerbaijani: Ənuşe Ənsarinin atası doktor Ənsari Dünya Azərbaycanlıları Konqresinin 1997-ci ildə keçirilən ilk qurultayının iştirakçılarından olub. Bundan başqa Güneydə tanınmış nəsildən olan doktor Ənsari Azərbaycanda biznes fəaliyyətilə məşğul olmaq və sərmayə yatırmaq üçün müxtəlif sahələrlə tanışlıq məqsədilə dəfələrlə ölkəmizə səfər edib. . The information is obviously wrong!, since her last name is not ansari, but Ra'isian and Ansari is her husbands name. I'll just put a fact there until it becomes clear perhaps later on. --alidoostzadeh 21:20, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] That bit about the self-id. of Azeris in Iran

If that's true, then it's similar to the situation of the Arvanites and Aromanians (who consider themselves amongst the proudest Greeks with certain linguistic/cultural traits - the current Greek President, Mr Karolos Papoulias is of Aromanian origin), and the Pomaks, who consider themselves Bulgarian speaking Turks (in Greece at least).--Tekleni 22:55, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Not really.. For majority of Azerbaijanis in Iranian, Iranian identity is part of Azerbaijani identity and vice versa. it is not like Turks in Bulgaria or Armenians in Turkey. --alidoostzadeh 22:56, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
That's what I said. The groups I mentioned consider their separate language and culture as traits of their identity and not a separate ethnicity.--Tekleni 23:03, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
I see no point in adding additional and unsourced paragraphs to the intro. There's no accurate survey on what most of Iranian Azeris consider themselves, so any such statements are POV and original research. The original line clearly stated: The list includes both ethnic Azerbaijanis and members of other ethnicities from the region. I think that the way it should remain. Inclusion in the list does not mean that the person is an ethnic Azeri, if you check the names from the Republic of Azerbaijan, you'll see that many are Christian or Jew, and no one claims that they are ethnic Azeris (i.e. persons like Max Black, Lev Landau, Gavril Ilizarov, etc). If Khagani or anyone else was not Turk, it is OK, this is just a list of famous people from the region, regardless of their ethnicity. I don't understand what the problem is here. I restore the original version of the intro, and I think it should remain like that. Otherwise please cite your authoritative sources and explain why the original intro should be changed. Grandmaster 05:23, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
It is not a POV to include many of the people were not linguistically Turkic speakers. Shams Tabrizi for example and many of the poets and other scholars I mentioned and Babak Khorramdin.. It is important to bring this to account, because by just mentioning "Azeri and others", that is not giving the true weight of culture of the land. The article is called List of Azerbaijanis which is not necessarily a correct name and the term Azerbaijani is undefined here(from Azerbaijan, Azerbaijani Turkic speaker or both). I do not think adding the fact that many of the people were Iranic speaking before the turkification of the area is POV, it is just really a simple fact that kind of shows the history of the region. It is important to mention this as part of the heritage of Azerbaijan since Medes, Achaemenids, Parthians, Sassanids, various Iranic or Iranic speaking dynasties held sway: Shaddadid, Rawwadid, Shervanshahs...and even today there is a large number of Kurds and Talyshes in Azerbaijan. I do agree adding stuff that is political in nature is usually always POV, but the historical fact can not be considered POV. --alidoostzadeh 16:38, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
GM, honestly, you need to stop your POV push on this and other articles.Khosrow II 20:10, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
Such "lists of..." are usually based on nationality and nationality alone, the Iranian Azeris shouldn't even be on this list. I propose that we create a "List of Iranian Azerbaijanis" and move all the Iranian personalities there and add a disclaimer here that "This article is about the citizens of Republic of Azerbaijan. For Iranian Azerbaijanis, see list of Iranian Azerbaijanis". As it is, this list seems like a POV fork to label many Iranian citizens and personalities as those of Republic of Azerbaijan --ManiF 21:07, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
No, not at all - please see List of Kurdish people. ALL Kurds have a different nationality, so it is never a question of nationality, it is always case by case.. Baristarim 01:46, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
I've clarified the nationality of the Iranian Azeris to avoid any potential confusion regarding their citizenship. --ManiF 16:02, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
Ok, no problems - if it is needed, all the nationalities of the people mentioned should be included, and maybe divided into sub-sections - coz, I am assuming, that there might be famous Azeris who have Russian citizenship, European etc... Don't want to get into the dispute of how that will be done however. Baristarim 19:45, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
Why not simply add nationalities that are associated with countries these people mostly lived and worked in (without trying to figure out, which country officially granted them citizenship)? This should work, as long as it's done conscientiously (previously people added nationalities for some people according to their personal assumptions; that is, if a person's lastname didn't end in -ov or -ev, they'd just mark him or her as Iranian - let's try to avoid that.) Parishan 01:50, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

This issue was extensively discussed between me and Khosrow with mediation of Sarah Ewart here: User_talk:Sarah_Ewart/KII-GM2 There was no consensus on removal of names from the list, as this is not an ethnic list, it is a list of prominent people regardless of ethnicity, which the intro clearly states. Despite that Khosrow deleted the names, ignoring opinions of other users. I don’t think it is acceptable and this cannot go on like that endlessly. Grandmaster 12:13, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mohammad Nosrati

Nosrati is not Azeri and he's not from the region either. He's a Kurd. Look on his wikipage, there is an interview he has with an Iranian magazine in it. In the interview he says he is a Kurd. Nokhodi 22:26, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Good thing you brought it up. It must be changed, talk to the admin who protected the page.Khosrow II 01:37, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sami Yusuf

Isnt Sami Yusuf also Azeri? Why isnt he on the list? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 85.146.213.29 (talk) 23:01, 10 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Sulkevich

why to delete sulkevich's name from the list? he was the first chief of staff of azeri army and was killed in this land protecting it from the soviets, he gave his life for this land and so his name must be included! why to include oldest naturaelized iranian azerbaijan and rza shah pehlevi enemy of azerbaijanians in this list but exclude sulkevich who died for this land? Elsanaturk 21:16, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Because the naturalized Iranian American happened to be ethnic Azeri, whereas Sulkevich wasn't. He could have also been included if he had been born in Azerbaijan, but that wasn't the case: his birthplace was Belarus where he lived most of his life. Parishan 21:02, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Edits

Many of the Iranians listed here were not born in Iranian Azerbaijan, but rather other places in Iran, so I changed Iranian Azerbaijan to Iran. Also, Safi ad din was not Azeri, and Iraj Mirza was listed twice, so I removed those.Hajji Piruz 04:18, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

I also reorganized the article, put all the Iranians in one section and everyone from the Republic of Azerbaijan in another section.Hajji Piruz 15:53, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Jews and Russian ARE NOT AZERI PEOPLE

:(
No one claims that they are Azeri. This is a list of prominent people from Azerbaijan regardless of ethnicity. --Grandmaster 16:44, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Suggestion

I just saw this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_of_Azerbaijan

it got its own list of Azeri musicians, maybe they could be inserted in this page? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.146.213.29 (talk) 21:05, 13 November 2007 (UTC)