Talk:List of Alpha Phi Alpha brothers

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Contents

[edit] Reputable and verifiable sources

This article is a Featured list; therefore, all names and notable info must have a source that is and verifiable. Unfortunately, original research is not allowed (meaning you know for a fact he's an Alpha). All names on the list with no reference will be placed here until someone finds a source, then the name can be re-added to the article in the appropriate section(s) with the proper citation.--Ccson 16:37, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Some names may have a source, this is probably for what makes him notable, not that he is an Alpha. We need both to include in the list of APA brothers.

Name Original Chapter Notability Reference
Dialleo Burks Rho Eta NFL and American Football League (AFL) player
Albert Cassell Alpha Architect, Designed building for Howard University, Morgan State University, Virginia Union University
Marco Coleman Nu Mu NFL player
Chris Doleman Omicron NFL player
Edward R. Dudley Alpha Omicron United States Ambassador to Liberia, First African American to hold the rank of Ambassador; Justice of New York Supreme Court [1][2]
DoItAll Dupree Beta Rho Rapper with Lords of the Underground
James A. Forbes Beta Distinguished Senior Minister Emeritus of The Riverside Church in the City of New York; Harry Emerson Fosdick Adjunct Professor of Preaching Union Theological Seminary; President and Founder of Healing of the Nations Foundation
William P. Foster Creator of the Florida A&M University Marching "100" Band
Robert E. Hayes, Jr. Delta Bishop of the United Methodist Church [3]
Arturo D. Hill Omicron Iota Director of Enterprise Architecture Delivery within the Healthcare and BioChemical Industries; Designed and delivered various Information Technology Architectures for some of the world’s largest Fortune 100 companies; First African-American to present on the subject matter of Enterprise Architecture in Berlin Germany, at the age of 30.
Darius Holland Alpha Iota NFL player
Demetrious Johnson Zeta Alpha NFL player
Kerry G. Johnson Kappa Caricature artist, illustrator
Henry Lawrence Beta Nu NFL player, Super Bowl XV and Super Bowl XVIII, Two-time Pro Bowler
Ronald Moore Gamma Chi NFL player
Kevin Potter Zeta Alpha NFL player
Augustine Schmader Nu 2004 Olympian, Track and Field
Woody Strode Gamma Xi One of the first two African-Americans to play in the NFL's modern (post-World War II) era, CFL player, Professional Wrestler; Actor in films such as Spartacus, The Ten Commandments, and The Professionals
Kenny Washington Gamma Xi One of the first two African-Americans to play in the NFL's modern (post-World War II) era
Sean Woodson Delta Phi NFL player

Congrats on the list making a featured status! Jmlk17 19:41, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Herman Branson

I think describing Herman Branson as a co-discoverer rather than a co-inventor is more appropriate. The Alpha-helix certain existed long before he lived, it just hadn't been discovered.Naraht 11:16, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Heads of State

I see nothing in the Politics of the United States Virgin Islands to indicate that a governor of the USVI is a head of state any more than the Governor of Ohio. Please point out where the article says so.Naraht 02:05, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

In addition, for both Jamaica and Bermuda, Queen Elizabeth II is Head of State, the Premier and Prime Minister are Head of Government.

I want to thank both of you for your more than cursory review of the list. With your continued reading, attention to the most minute detail (inventor vs discoverer); the article should should stand up to the most strenuous review when nominated as a Featured list. In fact, if there's one objection by another editor, I will be disappointed in you. Thank you again.--Ccson 17:01, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Head of Government

That is right Naraht. In the case of countries that are part of the British commonwealth(Bermuda, Jamaica, etc.), the Queen of England (respresented by the Governor-General) is the "Head of State" and the Prime Minister or Premier is the "Head of Government". http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/5375.htm

In the case of the U.S. Virgin Islands, the "Head of State" (in capital letters) is George W. Bush. The governor of the U.S. Virgin Islands is simply a "governor" just like the governor of California, New York, or Florida.

The governor of the U.S. Virgin Islands is not a "Head of State".

If the U.S. Virgin Islands was an independent country, then you can call the governor the "Head of State".

If you want to say that the governor is the head of the "local" government, then that is fair game. But no governor in the U.S. is considered a "Head of State" or a "Head of Government".

Some encyclopedias refer to U.S. governors as "head of the government" in lower case letters. That simply means that they are the head of the local government. The only "Head of State"/"Head of Government" of ANY part of the United States is George W. Bush.

Please read this: http://www.britannica.com/nations/United%20States

[edit] Members of Congress

I would like to discuss these names before I add them to the Members of Congress section:

Congressman Charles Diggs (mentioned in the Alpha documentary) Congressman William Clay, "Sr." (listed in the Alpha history book) Congressman Floyd Flake (listed in the college president section on Alpha's website) Congressman George Collins —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.105.79.15 (talk) 14:21, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

  • Diggs is mentioned in the video, however; so is Ralph Bunche and the national office has confirmed Bunche is not a member of APA. I have searched the internet but cannot find a second source to verify Diggs membership in APA. Can you locate a source on the internet or perhaps something in print?
  • My 1982 version of the history book does not mention William Clay, Sr. What version are you reviewing?
  • I can't locate the list of college presidents on the APA site. I found web sites that list Flake as a congressman and president of Wilbeforce, but no mention of his affiliation with APA, even in articles where other Alphas were mentioned along with Flake. see CBC for Flake, Ford, Scott
  • What about George Collins affiliation with APA?--Ccson 15:11, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

On Alpha Phi Alpha's old website (the website several months ago) they listed current Alpha college presidents and Floyd Flake (whom was a congressman) was on that list. That list is no longer on APA new website. Floyd Flake was made in 2003 before the convention. 76.105.79.15 21:40, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Without access to the archived/deleted website page, your knowledge of his 2003 pledgeship is considered original research. Flake's name may appear on the website for the chapter into which he was inducted, which would be a verifiable reference. The APA national office can be asked to re-add the college presidents page to its current website, again a verifiable source. The first section of this talk page contains a list of names because we have no reputable and verifiable source to stipulate their affiliation with APA. Flake's name can be added to the section on this talk page with the references that verify he is a college president and former congressman, then when a verifiable reference is located that Flake is an Alpha, the entry can be moved to the article.--Ccson 14:00, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Finally found it...

http://www.alphaphialpha.net/PressNewsDetails.php?newsID=40&newsCat=Announcements —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.105.79.15 (talk) 22:48, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

APA is a reputable and verifiable source. Let me know if you need help in adding the entry and citation(s).-----Ccson

The 2 references listed for Kurt Schmoke don't mention that he was an Alpha. We'll have to find some more evidence on him. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.105.79.15 (talk) 14:06, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

You are incorrect.--Ccson 17:02, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tuskegee University

I changed some of the info on the presidents listed for Tuskegee University. I retrieved that info from the Tuskegee website. I do not kbnow how to correct the footnotes. I took a look at it and knew something was not quite right since I had attended the university. Payton was listed as the first president when in fact he is the fifth and current president. The other two I added the number like Third President and Fourth President. LivelyIvy1908 18:17, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

I think the sources that indicated 1st, 3rd, etc were making a distinction between the various names of the college. Patterson may have been the first when it was renamed as an "institute" and Payton may have the first to be president when it became a "University". Doesn't really matter to me, I just entered what was provided by the source.--Ccson 14:48, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Notable members of Alpha Phi Alpha

Hi, we have conversated before about the page for notable Alpha brothers. I would like to make more contributions, but am having some trouble with the page. I would like to add the following althletes: Bobby Bell (Mu chapter) NFL Hall of Famer, Sandy Stephens (Mu chapter) (NFL player and First Black All American quarterback ), Bill Munsey (Mu chapter) NFL player, Kenny Washington (Alpha Delta) (First black player in the NFL), and Woody Strode (Alpha Delta) (second Black player in the NFL). I have more, but I thought those would be enough for now. All of those brothers are "notable" and significant to their fields. I also have references, however I do not have an online reference for Kenny Washington and Woody Strode. Information about Washington and Strode was found in the Sphinx magazine. Information can be found about brothers Bell, Stephens, and Munsey on the Mu chapter website. Bell, Stephens, and Munsey were all initiated into the fraternity the same year as NFL hall of famer Carl Eller in the Spring of 1961. http://www.geocities.com/muchapter1912/linehistory.html Maybe you could help?

Thanks, Bro. Jackson

Playboymixx06 (talk) 08:05, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

  • Added Bell, Munsey and Stephens to list. I need info form The Sphinx magazine regarding Strode and Washington before moving to list.--Ccson (talk) 09:06, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, I will get the info for sourcing the Sphinx Magazine. I loaned the magazine to another brother whom is a history professor and was interested in the story. I'll have to get it back from him to get the exact info, however I believe that the year of the Magazine was 1997. I can't remember the season of the magazine, but it was an article about Jackie Robinson's connection to the fraternity. It was written by a brother in a graduate chapter out in California who interviewed an older brother in his chapter that played on the same football team at UCLA with Robinson, Strode, and Washington. Jackie Robinson, Woody Strode, and Kenny Washington all pledged Alpha together (had to pledge at USC since UCLA had no chapter at the time), but Robinson didn't finish. Reading about the first two Black NFL players being Sphinxman alongside the first Black MLB player made for a great article.

Playboymixx06 (talk) 09:27, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

  • let me know.--Ccson (talk) 14:24, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm still working on getting my Sphinx Magazine back that includes the information about Woody Strode and Kenny Washington, but I also have more. The following website ( http://www.gammaxi1947.com/lineage1980.htm ) has line information about brothers from the Gamma Xi chapter that became professional athletes. Carnell Lake and Mike Powell are already on the notable Alpha membership list, but there is also Kevin Young (Olympic Gold medalist in 1992 Olympics), Michael farr (former NFL player), Melvin Farr Jr. (Former NFL player), And Darryl Henley (former NFL player). If you go to this section of the website ( http://www.gammaxi1947.com/gammaxi.htm ) you will see that Don Barksdale is a charter member of the Gamma Xi chapter. Barksdale was the first African-American to play in the NBA All-star game and the first to play on the Olympic Basketball team. Aside from sports, Kente Scott (G X 89) is an actor that has been in movies like "Antoine Fisher and The Nutty Professor II). Thanks, 06! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Playboymixx06 (talk • contribs) 02:04, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Dr. Charles Finch, the Afrocentric scholar and researcher became an Alpha in 1968 through the Zeta chapter at Yale University. http://1906zeta.com/lineage.htm Playboymixx06 (talk) 01:29, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

The following website http://students.washington.edu/aphia/index2.html has line information on Alpha brothers that played in the NFL under "past lines." Vincent Newsome is already on the Wikipedia list, but there is also Mark Stewart (1981) http://www.databasefootball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=STEWAMAR01 Mark Lee (1980), and Nesby Glasgow (1978). Those brothers were initiated at the University of Washington (Alpha Xi). Playboymixx06 (talk) 07:56, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

I'll add these names to the article list.

From the Theta Sigma chapter website http://www.thetasigma1906.net/lines.php (1975) NFL player Derrick Gaffney http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derrick_Gaffney and Samuel "Sammy" Green http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sammy_Green (1973). Also Derrick Gaffney's brother Donald Gaffney (1973) was also an Alpha at the University of Florida and was the first Black quarterback for the Gators http://www.thetasigma1906.net/tsHistory.php Playboymixx06 (talk) 22:12, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Ron Johnson http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Johnson_%28running_back%29 NFL player, University of Michigan standout, and current National Football Foundation chairman is an Alpha. http://www.collegefootball.org/news.php?id=836 Playboymixx06 (talk) 02:35, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Y Done--Ccson (talk) 21:25, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Basketball Hall of Famer Walt Bellamy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walt_Bellamy is an Alpha. He is listed in the Sphinx Magazine (Spring 1999, Volume 84 issue) on page 51. Playboymixx06 (talk) 07:01, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Y Done--Ccson (talk) 02:11, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Kevin Powell http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Powell from MTV's Real World 1 and author, activist, lecturer was recently initiated into Alpha via the Zeta Eta chapter.http://www.kevinpowellforcongress.org/about_facts/ Playboymixx06 (talk) 21:58, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

wikipedia does not consider a personal website a reliable source. Can you find a third party source which confirms Powell is a member?--Ccson (talk) 01:30, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] conflicting information

I know this is going to seem like an old argument in the Pan hell, but it is false to declare Alpha Phi Alpha as being the first intercollegiate black fraternity. The first one was and remains Gamma Phi, which was founded at Wilberforce Unversity, in 1905. [[1] [2] ] It did have a few chapters as well thus being intercollegiate. SexyNupe2000 (talk) 22:39, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Shows that Gamma Phi is the first black intercollegiate fraternity. SexyNupe2000 (talk) 23:35, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

  • I don't want to go thru an edit war which looked like it would happen here, so I did an RFC. [6] SexyNupe2000 (talk) 23:36, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

any responses here? SexyNupe2000 (talk) 23:26, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

A third opinion was provided on the main fraternity page.[7] Vassyana (talk) 01:39, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Kurt Schmoke

I think you should contact the Baltimore Alpha Chapter concerning listing Kurt Schmoke as an Alpha. http://www.deltalambda.org/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.96.91.89 (talk) 15:49, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Why?--Ccson (talk) 01:10, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
Kurt Schmoke is not a member of Alpha Phi Alpha per the membership directory. Knicksfan4ever 20:53, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Do you have a copy of the membership directory? Does the directory specifically say he's not a member or is it that his name is not present? It's possible he's not an active member of that chapter. Are you saying that the writer of this article has listed Schmoke in error–if so, have you contacted the writer of the article to inform her that the article contains errors? In the article its obvious she interviewed members of the national headquarters who are members of the Baltimore chapter. The writer lists Carl Murphy, Kurt Schmoke and Thurgood Marshall–it's not a stretch to believe all 3 names were provided by members of the chapter; otherwise, how would the writer know which names to list? thanks.--Ccson (talk) 19:23, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
Unfortunately yes, there have been many people that have been associated with organizations for years and aren't members. An Alpha who I went to college with who is the current Director of Membership (Darryl Jackson) (feel free to contact him, he's listed on the national website). Told me that Kurt is not a member nor has he ever been a member. Don't know why anyone would claim something that they are not, then again it's a great organization to be affliated with. I believe it should be a member of Alpha Phi Alpha to contact her, not meKnicksfan4ever 14:17, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

clarification: not a member of Alpha, or not a member of said chapter?-RoBoTamice 15:27, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Not a member of Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity Inc.Knicksfan4ever 15:34, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

The only source that you have a Kurt Schmoke being an Alpha is an article written by a non-Alpha. 131.96.173.11 (talk) 12:17, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

A non-member would actually show a NPOV and no motive for claiming a notable person when that person is not a member. Perhaps Mr. Jackson should contact the author of the article and ask for a retraction or udpate the article without Schmoke's name being listed.--Ccson (talk) 13:28, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Image copyright problem with Image:Chester himes.jpg

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[edit] Kevin Powell

Ccson stated:

"wikipedia does not consider a personal website a reliable source. Can you find a third party source which confirms Powell is a member?--Ccson (talk) 01:30, 9 April 2008 (UTC)"

Wouldn't an individual's "official personal" website be the "most" reliable source?

I always thought the most reliable sources would be autobiographies or websites owned, operated, or produced by the individual. I always thought that a person stating that they are a member either from their own mouth, in an autobiography, or mentioning it on their "personal" website would be more reliable than any third party sources, including documents published by the fraternity.

Wikipedia should consider personal websites as reliable sources.

Why would Kevin Powell lie on his own website and state that he is a member when he is not?

Just curious...

Here is the policy and reason as explained by Wikipedia. You can view this info at self published sources."

Anyone can create a website or pay to have a book published, then claim to be an expert in a certain field. For that reason, self-published books, newsletters, personal websites, open wikis, blogs, forum postings, and similar sources are largely not acceptable.[4] Self-published material may, in some circumstances, be acceptable when produced by an established expert on the topic of the article whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable third-party publications. However, caution should be exercised when using such sources: if the information in question is really worth reporting, someone else is likely to have done so. Self-published sources should never be used as third-party sources about living persons, even if the author is a well-known professional researcher or writer; see WP:BLP#Reliable sources. Articles and posts on Wikipedia may not be used as sources.

To discuss the reliability of specific sources, consult the Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard.--Ccson (talk) 13:18, 9 June 2008 (UTC)