User talk:Ling.Nut/Archives/2007/6

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This is a discussion archive created in June 2007, though the comments contained may not have been posted on this date. Please do not post any new comments on this page. See current discussion, or the archives index.

[edit] Alpha Dog tattoo

Sorry for the late response but I believe you're right about the tattoo. Abstrakt

[edit] Review

See my brief notes and nitpicks at User:Renata3/ppl. The article is really good. What would be interesting to add (though the article is probably too lng already) is their original culture: tattoos, music, clothes, celebrations, etc. Also number of people for each tribe would be ideal. Renata 04:23, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reply

Thank you for giving me advice on the WikiProject. --Jenniblagenheim 00:53, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Copy-edit

Hi. I'll try to set some time aside to help with it; however, things have been pretty tight lately, so I can't make a full promise yet. — Deckiller 02:05, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Olive reply

I have a short memory on quarrels and long memory on good editors; thanks for the thought and the branch, even if I can't remember why we may have quarreled :-) Your comments there were excellent! SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:41, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ethnic group categories

I just came over here based on discussion at Template talk:Ethnic groups#Peer review parameter. Has this been sorted out? - Jmabel | Talk 01:10, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

If you can aim me at anything that needs to be restored, I'll restore it. - Jmabel | Talk 05:21, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] RE: GA review page

I have made some of your suggested changes, but please be bold and make any further changes you have suggested. The external link you sent me is GREAT, and the information there could possibly be integrated well in that guideline, as well as an external link in and of its own right. The guideline is suffering from the fact that I have been one of the only siginifcant contributors. Please do what you can to improve it. It needs additional perspective, and you have some great ideas. --Jayron32|talk|contribs 03:59, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Jihad (song)"

Can you take a fresh look at the article and give your thoughts? Thanks. LuciferMorgan 21:57, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Blueshirts

"Blueshirts" is the common moniker of the "Society to Vigorously Carry-Out Three People's Principles", an organization from the 1930s aiming to reinvigorate the Kuomintang. I chose the name because I am really into republican history and it sounds cool. In fact, wikipedia has an extremely biased and incorrect article on it, see Blue Shirts Society. I have voiced my concerns on its talk page. Blueshirts 07:30, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

You are also aware that the "Blue Shirts" were used by the KMT as a gestapo style organization under the leadership of Chiang Ching-kuo...right? The "Blue Shirts" conducted politically motivated arrests and assasinations of political opposition in China and Taiwan. The "blue shirts" were modeled after Hitler's Brown Shirts and Mussolini's Black Shirts and combined the Chen brothers KMT party gestapo with the military secret police under Tai Li. Their members numbered about 10,000 and they were closely affiliated with the Green Gang, Chiang Kai-sheck's backers in organized crime. Maowang 08:25, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

you're wrong on so many levels. First of all, it's not styled after gestapos. In fact, fascism has little to no influence on its formation, and this was later said by Lloyd Eastman, who was once the biggest scholar to accuse the blue shirts as fascists and probably started this myth in western scholarship. Secondly, Chiang Ching-kuo had nothing to do with it, and it was disbanded in 1938. Thirdly, blue shirts has no etymological relationship with brown shirts or black shirts. You'd know the difference if you knew he chinese translation of these european organizations. Blueshirts 10:39, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WP:WPILT

I gots just two woids fuh ya: join an' spread-da-woid. Eh, dat's two woids, right? >;-)

PS: I realize your time's limited, but come on down! when you're around. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 11:05, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Zaolzie

Replied at GAR.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  16:37, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Taiwanese aborigines

It looks great, but the only thing I noticed is that it uses Harvard-style notes. IMO, it would be better if we used footnotes instead. What do you think? Khoikhoi 23:56, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wait...

Oh curses. LingNut...what was is involving Algonquian we were talking about a few months back? Was I supposed to give you any materials? I'm so sorry I can't remember :( --Miskwito 03:46, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Oh. Sorry to hear about that. At least it wasn't my fault! --Miskwito 04:16, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Zaolzie

Please do not ask Piotrus to review. I think that he is a friend of Darwinek (the person who constantly deletes my comments). Also, having read his "How to deal with Poles" article (in particular the version in Polish - yes, I do have basic knowledge of Polish and use it), I think he may be biased on issues involving history of Poland.

I cannot add information, I cannot delete information (following my additions being constantly deleted) - I cannot edit the article. In my view, this is not Wikipedia.

I am not a vandal, troll, or anything like that. My amendments are sourced and I do not assess them. I do not say what I think. I just want not only one view being presented (basically Zahradnik, who is of relevant serious Polish historians the most anti-Czech). After being accused that some of my sources are biased (which I believe is not true), I have stopped using them (not to cause any silly editation war) and have used most recent sources only (2005, 2004). I have quoted Polish historians on the issue (this was also deleted). Trying to be reasonable did not help at all.

I really do not want any silly editation war. I have agreed with Darwinek on the content of the article, which I think at least tries to be objective. I kept the agreement and, of course, made no futher changes to the agreed text.

However, there were recent further amendments, which again present unilateral view. Given the fact that I cannot add anything, I have deleted the amendments. This was reverted by both Darwinek and Piotrus. Now I have to add information (from Polish sources) but I am afraid they will again delete it without any explanation other than "we think this amendment should not be here". This is just not right.

If persons outside the circle of Darwinek, Tomek, Halibutt and perhaps Piotrus cannot edit the article, it should be at least not mentioned as a Good Article.

--Xixaxu 08:56, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Many thanks, Ling.Nut! Apologies for bothering you with this, I was very frustrated and did not know where and whom to turn to. Yes, I would also prefer that we all work harmoniously together! It appears that all that scream and help from other users finally had some effect (which itself is also rather frustrating as people should cooperate without going through edit war first). Piotrus reviewed the article and reverted deletion of some of my amendments. Hopefully we will be able to make the article less national now. Again, thanks!--Xixaxu 21:12, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re:see my comments at Talk:Phil Mitchell

My apologies, this is the first time I've reviewed an article, I noticed the backlog, this article had stayed on the GAC page for longer than a month, so I came ahead to make some suggestions (but not to fail the article). Seeing as Phil Mitchell currently has two active contributors, I just feel that the article can probably be improved, which is why I decided to put it on hold.

Just some clarification, I think I made it quite clear at the beginning that I was reviewing the article (the review isn't done yet), and that the weaknesses I pointed out were only some examples. I tried to begin my review with some minor points which only require simple fixes, if the article is developed, I'll definitely do more careful reviewing on it. Starting by telling the editors there to trim off a lot would be like taking the wind out of their sails (I really didn't have the guts to do so). Let's give this one a chance, I'll try to persuade the editors there to do some trimming, you can still fail the article after the on hold time if the GA standard isn't met. Again, my apologies for not doing my review sensibly, and thanks for the input, the issue you brought up is of significance. Regards, PeaceNT 12:27, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your gentle note. This GA review is indeed an error of judgement on my part. I admit I wasn't fully aware of the major WP:FICT problem at the outset. In fact only when you put forward the issue did I realise that the condition of Phil Mitchell was so critical. I feel that I owe you another apology, for I have caused you much trouble with this article. I'm really sorry if the unpleasant argument on the discussion page has brought you undue stress. Somehow it hadn't occurred to me that I could have unfairly encouraged them by putting Phil on hold. Anyway I'll try my hardest to follow your advice and do a GA review in the future with more careful consideration. I am deeply grateful for all your kind help. Best regards, PeaceNT 09:24, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

I really appreciate all your help, Ling.Nut, I honestly can't thank you enough for that. Take care, PeaceNT 11:18, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Picture

Yeah... that's a good picture from one of the Zhuluo Gazetteers. Emma Teng really gets into those in her book, in regards to Qing perceptions of Plains Aborigines and their distance from the center. You can see by their depictions as crumpled and unrefined in comparison to Qing depictions of Han, that the concept of "Cooked" had much to do with their temporal distance from being Han. The choice of an "exotic", yet "civilized" act of milling rice also shows a Qing facination with "cooked" aborigines ability to become "civilized". I wish Patrick O Moran would read that book.Maowang 03:11, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

When you said you had a T.A. picture... i gotta say... I was a little disappointed.218.170.111.158 06:11, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Paragraph Change

I think this paragraph could be refined and maybe parts of it deleted or absorbed by other sections...what do you think?

More than three centuries after their origin, the Gaoshan and Pingpu labels persist, despite fundamental changes in the field of anthropology and the government on Taiwan. The divisions are not and have never been based strictly on geographical location. Among the so-called Gaoshan tribes are the Amis and Puyuma, who inhabit the plains of eastern Taiwan, and the Tao who live on Orchid Island.^[1] The distinction continues to affect Taiwan's policies regarding indigenous peoples, and their ability to participate effectively in government (Saisiyat people 2006).

[edit] Everly Brothers

Thanks for your work on that article. Being that Don's hometown is less than 15 minutes from me, I should know more about them. I will ask someone around here who knows whether your caption is correct or not. As for the vandalism, I haven't been watching the article that long, so it may have happened before I started. Thanks for your help. There's so much info there, between a few of us we ought to be able to get the thing in pretty good shape. Let me know when you start on it in earnest, and I'll see what I can do to help. I'm hoping to finish my work on Happy Chandler this coming week and get it nominated for GA. Acdixon 01:37, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hi

(In reference to the message you left on my discussion page) No, in fact I had not seen the offer before you had mentioned it. However, it seems as if he's more interested in rewarding those who improve articles about modern (Sino-Japanese War) military figures than he is with ancient and medieval Chinese scientists and inventors. Oh well, I am more interested in the latter, to be honest.--PericlesofAthens 04:26, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] FAC

Agreed. I have a widescreen, high res monitor; perhaps you can try tweaking with it, since your monitor is having the issue? — Deckiller 23:24, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

I have no issues, and I doubt others are stuck up enough to complain. — Deckiller 23:34, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

It looks a bit awkward on my monitor, namely because the ToC is centered and above the banner. — Deckiller 11:34, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, that looks great. — Deckiller 12:35, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Raul usually relists them. Problem is, we have too many FACs right now. 75 is so much to handle; 35-40 is much easier. — Deckiller 02:02, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Phil Mitchell

I did the same thing, earlier today I thought "Hey there's Ling.nut from link repair, what's he doing over here?". But it's good to be interacting with you again and I hope to continue to see you around at GAC. I'll take a look at the article tomorrow afternoon, I'm trying to write a paper right now and have classes all day in the morning to early afternoon. --Nehrams2020 07:21, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Release version nominations

I fixed the numbering and restored your comment. Hope you don't mind. All you needed to do was add a # before the colon. Errabee 21:12, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] FAC Support

I'd just like to point out that the Taiwan Aborigines article has FINALLY recieved a vote of support. Good work! Maowang 16:05, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

I followed most of the suggestions and made fixes. I cut and pasted everything into word and ran the Spell Check and Grammar Check... two misspelled words. A few commas here and there. I may have missed an "A"borigines, but I changed all I could.

[edit] GA award

Now that's pretty slick. I like it. Considering what is happening at BAP, want to just list it? Can we put it in some kind of template, like barnstars generally appear in? IvoShandor 16:23, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Do you think it's too big, maybe I dunno. I really like your image, it looks cooler every time I look at it. IvoShandor 16:49, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Perfecto. I see its bling from over here. Nice work. IvoShandor 17:16, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

60 or 75 is good, 100 was just too big. Sweet. Well, we have an image, I don't know if we will need approval or not, depends on how the MfD for WP:BAP goes, looks like a landslide toward delete right now, I really can't see this thing being kept, so if it is deleted we just list it, as a barnstar? or project award? I say barnstar, we can discuss it at the project page or the barnstar page, either way. IvoShandor 17:20, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bling for you

• You earned the star. I added it to the general barnstars category at WP:SHINY (heh, my new shortcut). I wasn't sure if I should add it to WikiProject awards too, I almost added it to the topical barnstars at the main barnstars page but went with the general cat. Any input? IvoShandor 11:05, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Red Cliffs

I did a little copy editing for you on Red Cliffs. I hope I wasn't too intrusive. Little things mainly, wording, smoothing. I did NOT add entire sections :-) Good Work!Maowang 02:40, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rock Springs

You think? Hmm. The article is kinda long, pushing 10,000 characters. IvoShandor 12:35, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the comments. : ) IvoShandor 13:33, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

• Have a nice break. : ) IvoShandor 13:46, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

I agree about the need for the article, a good summary is needed to put the individual articles in context, it's not pretty history but it needs to be written about on the Wiki, more and more this is one of the first places people come for information on everything, if they don't see it here the consequences could be that it is thought unimportant by the roving masses, most of whom remain woefully ignorant that they live in a country where such actions were pretty much outright condoned. I don't know if you're American or not but no one in the United States really knows anything about this chapter of history.

I liked your idea on how to wrap the article up. I have dozens of sources that I could pull together to talk a bit about this, when we do get around to composing above article it can link from the section, interested in collaborating on that at some point in the future, I have access to loads of scholarly material as I am sure you do as well, we could make a damn good article. Let me know. IvoShandor 11:59, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Well either way, if you go, have a good time. The article was one I was familiar with, I may have cited it for Chinese Massacre Cove which is but a stub I would like to expand. Either way I think we can link to it as a reference if we want. The Seattle drawing and the Frank Vaughn pictures are top notch stuff, in fact there is a depiction of the Seattle riot from Harper's Weekly that should be PD, I don't know for sure though as I am not an expert in such things. In addition I have some really great books that touch on related topics that might make good sources for future work, including: Bold Words: A Century of Asian American Writing (ISBN 0813529662) and Asian American Studies edited by Jean Yu-Wen Shen Wu and Min Song (ISBN 0813527260), the latter I added to the Rock Springs article as a general reference. I also added two paragraphs of content, one on Warren and another about a strike following the massacre. The Warren graf is in the diplomatic issues section and the other one is in the immediate aftermath section at the end. IvoShandor 15:22, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Also, do I really need a concluding section? It seems it would just be a repeat of other parts of the article that are better suited elsewhere. IvoShandor 15:26, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

{undent) I hear ya, I will see what other people say too, I am not sure what to do, I like how things are structured now. Well have fun! GO! Tell her I said go! : ) IvoShandor 15:37, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Edit conflict?

Edit conflict? I've restored what I wrote. Carcharoth 13:04, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

No probs. Thanks for the reply. Carcharoth 13:13, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reply

On the sock issue, leave a note to Raul654 (talk · contribs) — he'll probably check it out. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 13:40, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cooked?

For more from POM go to Talk:Taiwanese aborigines. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Maowang (talk • contribs) 00:29, 10 May 2007 (UTC).

Oops, I didn't know that was Maowang.--Jerry 00:43, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Have a good wikibreak !

[edit] Image:Sun Quan - Dynasty Warriors 5.jpg

Hello Ling.Nut, an automated process has found an image or media file tagged as nonfree media, such as fair use. The image (Image:Sun Quan - Dynasty Warriors 5.jpg) was found at the following location: User:Ling.Nut/Barnstars created. This image or media will be removed per statement number 9 of our non-free content policy. The image or media will be replaced with Image:NonFreeImageRemoved.svg , so your formatting of your userpage should be fine. The image that was replaced will not be automatically deleted, but it could be deleted at a later date. Articles using the same image should not be affected by my edits. I ask you to please not re-add the image to your userpage and could consider finding a replacement image licensed under either the Creative Commons or GFDL license or released to the public domain. Thanks for your attention and cooperation. User:Gnome (Bot)-talk 21:13, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Battle of

We don't have any strict guidelines, for obvious reasons, but there are some decent suggestions to be found at WP:MILHIST#Article structure. Kirill Lokshin 21:39, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sun Quan image

Hello, Ling Nut. I noticed that you mentioned something about the Sun Quan image from Dynasty Warriors 5 on dk's talk page. I was the one who added the image and I was just wondering what the problem is. Anyway, I've added a fair use rationale and changed the tag to the correct one (non-free game screenshot > non-free character) since I tagged it incorrectly to begin with. Anyway, have a good one. Gamer Junkie 01:44, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

It's too bad, Sun Quan would make a terrific Barnstar award :) Gamer Junkie 01:55, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 'Related ethnic groups' field

Hi Ling.Nut, I saw your note about the 'related ethnic groups' field of the ethnic groups infobox on Chukchi people and Austronesian people and followed up the debate. Thanks for drawing it to my attention. I don't have a strong position on this, except to note that Austronesian people is a good example of an infobox that shouldn't have this field, and Chukchi people, Kereks, Koryaks are good examples of pages that should. -- Ngio 12:55, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Three Kingdoms Wikiproject

Okay, I've left a request for Plastictv to give us a hand. He'll probably reply in about three months :)

Right, now I need sleep, but I'll get to work on that page when I wake up. Luckily it's my day off (well, not anymore:)). Cheers. Gamer Junkie 00:16, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Haha that's exaggerating. i think a separate wikiproject would be the best. --Plastictv 05:50, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] {{User contrib}}

Is not hosed, I repaired the damage, like the book says DON'T PANIC Adam McCormick 23:22, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

You just need to clear your cache, I reverted my changes so it has to be fixed. Anyhow, I'm looking at your page and it works just fine. Adam McCormick 23:26, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lee Huan

Sorry to bother you, but would you mind taking a look at the article on Lee Huan? I've just written it, and I was hoping to have a bit of a peer review on it. Thanks very much! --Folic Acid 16:29, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Hey, I created two task forces for WP:TAIWAN, check them out: WP:FORMOSAN and WP:TWGOVT.--Jerry 01:24, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] RFA nomination

I have been nominated to be an admin. If you support me, please indicate so on the RFA page. Thank you.

I'm sorry if you viewed it as spamming, I messaged you as you had contacted me on my talk page about an article.

— superbfc [ talk | cont ] — 23:54, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

Bit late, but thanks for the GA award! :) M3tal H3ad 04:49, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] History of the Luftwaffe During World War II

Hi

Ive started a huge editorial mission on this page in response to your message. I have combed through it and added many citations and authors. I have deleted the notes, as they were copied and far too long for 'notes' anyway. I have set about expanding it. Do you mind having a look and telling me what you thinkDapi89 11:17, 27 May 2007 (UTC).

[edit] WPENLANG

Since all the articles of WikiProject Endangered languages will also be part of WikiProject Languages, wouldn't it be better to add something like an |endangered=yes parameter to {{WP Languages}} rather than having two separate banners? --Ptcamn 04:59, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thank You!

Thank you for saving Georg Cantor from the chopping block, I am eternally grateful. Don't hesitate to come calling if you ever need anything from a simple math person.--Cronholm144 04:50, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

You have done a fantastic job! I'm sorry I could only participate in the improvement in a very minor way. However, I am now happy to endorse the GA listing of the article with confidence, thanks to your work. Geometry guy 22:37, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

• Master blacksmith - Shows consistent prowess in the forging and strengthening of articles through the addition of referenced material and verified facts. Provides logic and reason to debate and ensures fine-tuning of articles.

Certainly this describes your efforts at Georg Cantor to a tee. You have single-handedly (I would assume your hammer-wielding hand) saved and article from the abyss of B-class mediocrity. Now is the time to sit back and bask in the glory of your achievement(just not too long, there are many articles that need your help :) ). As a master blacksmith you have the obligation to pass on your skills to your apprentices, so that you may live on, not only in your sterling achievements, but also in their fine work as they become master smiths themselves. Your strength is the strength that holds wikipedia together. Bon courage!--Cronholm144 13:04, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] ROC Barnstars

Hey Ling - I just wanted to compliment you on the designs for ROC Barnstars you made for the Taiwan WikiProject. They really look great. Cheers --Folic Acid 02:36, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Oh hey - that shtuff is great! I especially like the two Czech ones - I studied there for a while, and it's always nice to see them represented well. Keep up the good work --Folic Acid 11:23, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Looks like a GA to me

After a bunch of internal citations started appearing, i've already supported Georg for GA status, I don't see any more obvious POV errors :/. Homestarmy 01:09, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Three kingdoms era

Yes, I know of him; a great tactician with a long white beard, alongside the times of Lu Bu, and all those others :-) ♥♥ ΜÏΠЄSΓRΘΠ€ ♥♥ ^{slurp me!} 15:21, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] A nice thing for your user page :-)

Just created it, so enjoy it :-)

I, Ling.Nut/Archives/2007/6 am a Linguini of the Knightly order of wikipedians

♥♥ ΜÏΠЄSΓRΘΠ€ ♥♥ ^{slurp me!} 16:05, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] RE: Red cliffs

Um.... I passed it?? A while ago.... but no offensive taken, lol. SGGH ^speak! 15:05, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

If you read my summary you will see that I'm aware of what in-line citations are, I just feel that the footnote variety have the added benefit that the reader can work backwards from footnotes to article as well as the other way round. I can understand your confusion, however, as I did hold the GA nomination for a few minutes during my review while I read up on GA and FA's view on harvard citations. No worries :) SGGH ^speak! 15:09, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Oh yeah, now that is my bad. All fixed now Thanks, see you around SGGH ^speak! 15:22, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Chinese?

Do you know Chinese? because information (and sources) about the Sakizaya may be located here[1].--23prootie 17:56, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re: GAC backlog eliminiation drive

I was doing the assessment very late last night so I decided to get some sleep first and leave the last few steps to be done on today. OhanaUnited 05:48, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Can you PLEASE give me some time.

Can you PLEASE give me about half an hour before you revert my edits to get the sources or at least put a disputed tag.

The fact that aboriginal representations to the LY are consistently pan-blue is a verifiable fact, give me about fifteen minutes to cite it before deleting it all.

Roadrunner 04:00, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GAC article reviews

Yeah, sorry about the e-mail, I don't think I need to enable it for now. Plus, I surprisingly check my watchlist more than I check my e-mail! Regarding the two articles, I would like to be clear on what you are stating. For the college article, I put a comment on the article's talk page requesting a fair use rationale be added. I'll keep an eye on it to make sure that it does get it within the next few days. The article about the magna character, I have more problems with it. I don't think that it meets the broad aspect, as it seems to only focus on the character's history in the magna. It would also be more beneficial to see the article with a more wider array of sources. I'll let the reviewer know about the review issues and consider nominating the character for GAR, if you think that is appropriate. Let me know if there is anything that I missed or if there were any other major problems with the articles I may be overlooking. --Nehrams2020 05:52, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Taiwanese aborigines

Thanks for the note.

Just a political note. One of the reasons that I'd like to make some edits in the article is to explain why Taiwanese aborigines *aren't* a political controversial topic in Taiwan. Basically there is very widespread consensus within Taiwan that aboriginal history be given high priority and this extends to the PRC. Given that Taiwan produces more than its share of political controversies, it's useful to explain *why* this issue *doesn't* produce much screaming.

The essential reason is that talking a lot about Taiwanese aborigines fits the Chinese nationalist discourse as well as the Taiwanese separatist one. The current Chinese nationalist discourse emphasizes the multi-ethnicity and diversity of the Chinese identity and talking about how Taiwanese aborigines are "Chinese" helps with this assertion. The Chinese nationalist discourse on Taiwan tries to accuse Taiwanese separatists of trying to "incite ethnic tension" and portraying themselves as the protector of ethnic minorities helps make this case. The fact that this POV is completely left out of the article is what got me interested in the article.

The hard part of me is going to be to get scholarly articles that support these points, but I'm pretty sure that I can find something on the KMT website. The other thing that I have to be careful of is not to fall into the trap of original research. Personally, I strongly object to the way that concept of "indigineous people" is sometimes employed.

Roadrunner 16:10, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hi

Thank you very much for your comment to me on the "Georg Cantor" talk page (I answerd to you there as well):-) --Gilisa 13:19, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Award

You have probably seen this award on Cronholm's page, but I think you are another very deserving recipient for showing courtesy and consideration to a fellow editor on the talk page of Georg Cantor. I see above that it was appreciated by the editor concerned. Geometry guy 14:58, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] aborigines

fantastic work on the formosan aborigines page! i noticed the absence of raleigh ferrel's book on languages and cultures. there are some nice sketches of different house types in that book. i imagine the language classification has been superceded. also i highly recommend all of paul barclay's articles on wushe--especially on marriage policy and drinking ceremony--and can provide refs if you are interested. i'm also interested in the pan-green politicization of the aborigines in the late 1980s and am actually doing my dissertation on fictional representations of aborigines and how these representations have been part of nation building projects of one kind or another. anyway, great work, shidailun

Shidailun

I think I can give you a hand on your dissertation. I wrote a similar paper a while back. Maowang 06:06, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Hello Maowang, I would appreciate a hand. How do I get in touch with you? I can't find a talk page for you. Shidailun

[edit] Dialect Map

Hi Ling.Nut, Thank you for the suggestion you put on my talk page. I can send an email asking for a volunteer to do the writing sometime by the end of next week (6/13). --Linguistlist 15:28, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Battle of Evesham

Yeah, that sounds good, thanks! Lampman ^{Talk to me!}

[edit] History of the Luftwaffe During World War II

Hello.

I have (i think) greatly improved this article to a more than acceptable standard. Perhaps the message on the user page can change now to reflect it's status as a good article. Regards

Dapi89 19:13, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Regarding Taiwanese aborigines

The Chinese nationalist view is that Taiwan has been an integral part of China since at least 1683, and hence the settlement of Taiwan should be described no more as "colonialism" than the settlement of the American West. Now I agree that this view is disputable (and in fact some people would describe the settlement of the American West as colonialism), but it is a POV and putting the "anti-colonialist" viewpoint over the "Chinese nationalist" one runs counter to the principles of NPOV.

Also, it seems that I've read the same books as Maowang, and part of my objections is that he is extrapolating to include things that are not in those books.

Roadrunner 06:38, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Taiwanese aborigines

And the nice thing about wikipedia is that you get people from across a whole bunch of viewpoints discussing their concerns about an article. Messy, yes. But the world is like that. History is also like that.

The basic problem with the term colonialism is that one would not in a general encyclopedia article describe US policy toward the Cherokee or New Zealand policy toward the Maori as a "colonial project" without qualifications, and you wouldn't because these indigineous peoples are considered to be on integral parts of their countries. To describe Qing policy toward Taiwan as a "colonial project" takes sides as to a current political controversy within Taiwan.

I would not object if it were the only way of expressing an important idea about aborigines, but it isn't.

It's also not my intention to whitewash or censor history. Certainly you can point out some nasty bits about Han settlement about Taiwan just as you can point out a lot of nasty bits about the American settlement of California, but I don't think that avoiding the term "colonial" to describe either does that.

Roadrunner 15:38, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Chill

Relax. I'll remove the NPOV tag from the top of the article and put move it to the sections that I have specific concerns about.

Also, it's possible to be both a nationalist and a scholar at the same time. One thing that is very good about wikipedia is that it exposes you to people who just see the world differently than you do, and teaches you how to interact with them.

Roadrunner 18:20, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Actually there are more like twenty different camps in Taiwan.

Whether the Qing were colonizers or not depends on your POV. Some Chinese Nationalists like Sun Yat-Sen, before the revolution, would argue that the Qing were colonizers that enslaved Han Chinese. The big problem is that the article seemed to imply that the history of Taiwan was one of continuous colonization which fits into the Green idea that the KMT and Mainlanders were foreign colonial governments. It also draws an equivalence between KMT rule on Taiwan and the Japanese, which is also problematic.

Mainland Chinese scholars tend not to care about this issue since it is very peripheral to their point of view. What I'm looking for on the web is an authoritative statement of how the KMT now views aboriginal history. Part of the reason that I'm refraining from editing the article is that I need an authoritative citable reference on this, and I'm looking at the KMT website, and other blue sources. I'm pretty sure that I know what it will say, but I need a citable source.

Roadrunner 19:23, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Chinese Huolongjing

Hmm, I have truly tried my best to improve the lead section of this article. I hope it now meets all of the standards you requested. I also added info on Europe in the lead too, since the concluding 'Historical perspectives' section is all about European firearms and cannons.--PericlesofAthens 05:40, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Three Kingdoms

That sounds cool, but only one problem: I don't have any sources that deal with the Three Kingdoms Era. The book that I own called East Asia: A Cultural, Social, and Political History (by Ebrey, Walthall, and Palais) mentions it only briefly, and when I say briefly, I mean very. Sorry, I wish I had more scholarly sources available to help out. Thanks for your offer though! Much appreciated.--PericlesofAthens 22:21, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hi again

Dude, trust me, it is my cup of tea, I've been reading the Romance of the Three Kingdoms since I was 16 years old (I've probably read it about 4 times through to the end, solidly). I've become much more interested in the actual historical account of the period than Luo's 14th century novel, though.

Here's the thing though: I don't know what I could contribute if I joined the group. I speak and write very little Mandarin (Pŭtōnghuà), so archival work is out of the question for me. Do you have any thoughts of what I could contribute? I am at a loss for thought on this one.--PericlesofAthens 18:16, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Ok man. I suppose I can sign up, but it doesn't mean I'm going to be able to contribute on a constant basis. I'm taking two summer classes right now at the same time, both of which are pretty much two whole semesters worth of work crammed into five weeks. Yeah. Needless to say, I am very busy this summer. Although I have already contributed much to wiki, a lot of this was before my summer courses began, and of course, before reality smacked me really hard in the face with a brick (considering that I am taking Global History of the Cold War and an Elementary Chinese language course). Just as long as that's known.--PericlesofAthens 18:49, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 3K userbox

That one's pretty cool, but you, me and Deadkid should have "3K founding member" userboxes. :) Gamer Junkie 01:40, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

I am serious, I guess. I've seen a couple of users with "this user is a founding member of WikiProject such-and-such" before. I just wish I could remember which users they were so I could add a link! Nevertheless, I'll ask dk. Afterall, it would be entirely true. Gamer Junkie 01:47, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

That's good. Maybe it should be a different background colour from the member box or something? What colour traditionally represents initiative in ancient China? You know, since we took the initiative and all that raz. Gamer Junkie 02:27, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, two tone, 'cept it needs to be WikiProject with a capital "p" so it looks all official. Gamer Junkie 12:58, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] For your effort

		The Graphic Designer's Barnstar
		I, Gamer Junkie, hereby award you, Ling.Nut, with The Graphic Designer's Barnstar for the creation of the Three Kingdoms WikiProject userbox. Excellent work. Gamer Junkie 13:19, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Teng

When I have a bit of time, I'll probably e-mail Emma Teng to ask her if she can give me references to works which strongly object to describing Qing in terms of colonial. I've had some discussions with Perdue over e-mail about other things. Teng describes Qing Taiwan in terms of colonial, but if you read her book, she realizes that her interpretation is "novel."

One thing is to be clear who is speaking. What I think is happening is that Harrell says something which Maowang clearly sees as colonial. The trouble is that it is Maowang speaking and not Harrell, and I think Maowang is being influenced by Shih Ming. It's not enough to say that Harrell says that Qing did X, Y, and Z and therefore it is colonial. Harrell actually has to use the term colonial project and I don't know if he has. My objections to the first sentence can be removed if you just take off the word "colonial" and just talk about "projects."

A lot of the references that Maowang presents actually I think undermines his points. How can we talk meaningfully of "Han colonialism" in the 17th century when as DiKotter and Rawski points out Han as a racial/ethnic category is a 19th/20th century invention? How can we talk about the Qing's "colonial civilizing mission" when as Perdue points out, the Qing *didn't* subscribe to the traditional Chinese view of concentric civilizations.

Also, if there is a English language version of Shih Ming's "400 Years of Taiwanese History" you should get that. My big objection to the article is that the view of history that is being presented largely comes from that work, and no one has cited it. I'm mildly annoyed when people talk about the Qing policies as "colonial." When you start talking about the KMT's, especially current, policies as "colonial" then I start screaming, because that is clearly political advocacy. (And you see why it was important to include aboriginal voting patterns in the article, since that clearly challenges the colonial paradigm.)

FYI, the Taiwanese nationalistic narrative is to talk about Taiwan as suffering from 400 years of colonialism with the current political agenda being to throw off the yoke of "Chinese/KMT colonialism." One big problem in this history, so that to do this they have to identify the current population of Taiwan with the aboriginals otherwise you have the problem that the people who are promoting the narrative are the "bad people" and not the "good people" and this is where the "but we are really descendants from the aborigines" comes in. There is also the self-consistency aspect of this. One complains about outsiders putting the aborigines in their own projects, and then proceed to do the same thing. But it's *o.k.* because those projects were "colonial" (i.e. bad) projects and our Taiwanese nationalist project is a "de-colonial" (i.e. good) project.

(I'm trying to find a way of putting this into the article, but a lot of it is probably OR. One reason I'm interested in finding Shih Ming is that he probably makes these points directly, and then you can find works that argue against Shih Ming for the other side.)

Roadrunner 17:25, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Awesome!

Thanks for the medal. Very cool.--PericlesofAthens 02:23, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Taiwanese aborigines

Thanks for the advice. However, I removed the tag because I felt like I edited it just the way roadrunner wanted it to be. I'm not sure though. Also, do you think the article should be Taiwanese aborigines or Taiwanese Aborigines?--Jerry 19:25, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

I created the banner for the WikiProject, see Wikipedia:WikiProject_Taiwanese_aborigines#Project_banner. I hope you'll like it!--Jerry 20:11, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] welcome

Welcome!

Hello, Ling.Nut/Archives/2007, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

• The five pillars of Wikipedia
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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{helpme}} before the question. Again, welcome! MPS 18:28, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

While kind, this seems a bit out of place . . . IvoShandor 18:39, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Did he not see the archives and the edit count of 11,000...--Cronholm¹⁴⁴ 21:53, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

Thanks a lot for your kind words and your WP:GA award. It is nice to know that one is appreciated. :) --Eva ^bd 22:47, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WP:3K

Thanks for the invite, but not for now. I am focusing on Chinese history in the Conquest Dynasties period from the 10th century onward. Later, I may join on. I am also working on the Bio Assessment project. If I come across more 3K articles, I will tag them with WP:3K now that I know what it is. Thanks. ludahai 魯大海 05:26, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject Taiwanese aborigines

Hey, Aquarius converted the project into a workgroup. I don't even know what a workgroup is, because it's not suppose to be part of the main project (it's not a subpage under the main project) and yet it's not an independent project (see how the banner looks now). I think it's just a mess, and that's how WPCHINA is organized, but I don't want WPTAIWAN to be this way. Tell me what you think, I'll ask Maowang for his opinion as well.--Jerry 14:36, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] quote from Harrell

Here's a quote from Harrell:

• • The first requirement for those who would civilize is to define, to objectify, the objects of their civilizing project (Said 1979:44-45). The definitions produced must consist of two parts: a demonstration that the peoples in question are indeed inferior, and thus in need of civilization, and a certification that they can be improved, civilized, if they are subjected to the project. Such a definition process serves several functions: it establishes the assumptions and rules according to which the project is to be carried out; it notifies the peripheral peoples of their status in the system, and why and how this requires they be civilized; and perhaps most importantly, it gives the imprimatur of science to what is essentially a political project. All the civilizing projects described in this book (Confucian, Christian and Nationalist) have had the process of definition and objectification at their base. The Confucians, beginning with an assumption of heirarchy based on the moral valuesof "literary transformation" set out to classify peoples closer to or farther from the center on the basis of just how much wenhua they had. This both legitimized the superior status of the center (thus giving it a mandate to carry out the process) and determined the methods used in ruling over peoples, according to how close to civilization, and thus how civilizable they were.... The Manchus, who themselves as rulers controlled the process, were of course fully capable of absorbing, even improving upon, the literary, moral, and cultural accomplishments of Han civilization, even while they preserved and refined for themselves a separate, distinct identity (Crossley 1990a; Rigger, this volume) (excerpt from Ed. Stevan Harrell's Cultural Encounters on China's Ethnic Frontiers 1995 pp.7-8)Maowang 03:32, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Puzzled

Are you talking about my changes to the Zhou Tong (archer) page? I can re-add the chinese templates if that is the problem. I just removed them because it seems like people had problems with large use of Chinese.(Ghostexorcist 02:16, 30 June 2007 (UTC))