Talk:Linotype machine

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A diagram or more photos are needed to better explain the internal workings of this machine

Contents 1 Etaoin Shrdlu Keyboard? 2 Merger 3 Terminology 4 These paragraphs need to be rewritten and detailed photos included

[edit] Etaoin Shrdlu Keyboard?

Does anybody have a picture or diagram showing the etaoin shrdlu keyboard layout? http://static.flickr.com/82/214724189_4adf1d6985_m.jpg i don't know if that link works but i couldn't get the picture it self to show. hope this helps

The Etaoin Shrdlu article has a better picture.-- era (Talk | History) 07:58, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Merger

This sounds like a great idea. Also, in my opinion, the article "Linotype Machine" gives a better description of the actual working process of the machine. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.53.78.141 (talk • contribs) 2005-12-30

No, Linotype should be about the company and its trade, and Linotype machine talks about the machine (duh!!) 218.102.218.250 02:05, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Let's transfer all the text about the machine from Linotype to this article Linotype machine, and write a new text dealing with the Linotype company for Linotype.

Arbo 12:34, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

The two articles should be merged to be consistent with the Monotype articles, which are merged.

Quis

Oppose. In this century, it's far more likely that people would seek information on Linotype GmbH, the type foundry, than on the relic typesetting machine of yore. Yes, Linotype and its machine share a history, but the two artcles are best kept separate, IMHO. —Down10 ^TACO 00:30, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Also oppose. They are separate topics and deserve separate entries. As long as each is prominently linked to the other, I see no reason to merge. Perhaps the Monotype articles should be unmerged (and someone could dig up a Monotype machine pic, pretty please). Rivertorch 07:44, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Oppose merging linotronic which is a whole different kettle of fish. - DavidWBrooks 16:51, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Oppose this also. It would be analogous to merging Mustang with Model T. Rivertorch 21:21, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps instead of redirecting a search for "Linotype" to Mergenthaler Linotype Company, maybe it should be directed to the Linotype Machine article instead. TIE53 17:33, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Terminology

I've never seen the terms 'hot type' and 'cold type' used here in the UK. When I was at printing college in the 1970s and working in the industry later, we always called it 'hot metal' and 'coldsetting' or more normally 'photosetting' or 'phototypesetting.' Are the hot type/cold type terms recognised in other countries, or should they be changed to hot metal/coldsetting? Simoneccles 04:27, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

They are the terms in the U.S. The article needs to reflect the different terminology on either side of the pond. - DavidWBrooks 13:58, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

"Hot metal" is used in the US as well, as evidenced by an early HTML composition system that punned on the name (simultaneously punning on HTML, of course).

Atlant 16:23, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Ahh, here we are: HoTMetaL.

Atlant 22:31, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

The only term I have ever seen is "hot metal". Not "hot type". Paul Koning 14:40, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] These paragraphs need to be rewritten and detailed photos included

I don't know anything about Linotypes so I cannot correct these sentences, but they are too technical for someone who has never seen a linotype machine to get a good idea of what is going on. Terms need to be defined, and where possible avoid using technical terms when a general description would do. Detailed images of the components would really really help.

" This delivery channel would then transfer the composed line into the 'first elevator' which then positions the matrices and spacebands in front of the mold. The matrices would be aligned, then the justification levers would rise to expand the spacebands as needed, then the line would be 'locked up' against the mold and the slug is cast."

"The complexity of a Linotype machine was necessary not just so that it would place matrices in the proper place as the operator typed on the keyboard, but so it could return the matrices to the proper channels (slots) in the magazine in preparation for their next usage. This was vital, because returning letters to the proper part of a case (termed "redistribution") is the slowest and most difficult part of setting type by hand. The Linotype machine used a clever design of 7 binary-coded notches on each matrix (the notches corresponding to their position within the main 90-channel or the 34-channel 'auxiliary' magazines). Certain seldom-used characters (referred to as 'pi' matrices or simply 'sorts') had none of the teeth on the matrix notched, so they would proceed the entire length of the distribution" Cshay 23:46, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree, but the machine is really quite complex and it's very difficult to do it justice in an acceptable size article. Diagrams might help. I have a source that may be old enough for its copyrights to have expired, will check.

To make matters worse, what's described in the article is the simplest variant of the Linotype machine. If you look at features like four-magazine mixed composition -- where the distribution has to separate out the different fonts first and then the different characters -- things get more complex yet. Paul Koning 14:40, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I don't think the length of the article is any concern. It's just a lot of work to document how this thing works in an easy to understand manner. Cshay 20:35, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

I'll give it a try when I can. I have a good reference manual. Its copyright hasn't expired yet as I understand it (it's from 1940), but I can use the text for information. And it might be that there are public domain pictures available -- perhaps in the Mergenthaler patent. Paul Koning 21:32, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Correction: that copyright of that manual did expire, because it wasn't renewed when the renewal time came up (1968). There are also useful pictures in a number of Mergenthaler patents. Paul Koning 16:51, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm working on an update. Comments welcome. See User:Paul Koning/work. Paul Koning 14:23, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Done. There now are lots of pictures -- enough that some end up all the way at the bottom of the text, at least in my browser. I tried <gallery> but that didn't do what I wanted, at least not in some quick tests. Improvements of all kinds would be much appreciated. Paul Koning (talk) 17:21, 25 January 2008 (UTC)