Talk:Line of succession to the Monegasque throne

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Question: If Albert II dies without a legit son would the throne go to Caroline or Andrea, considering Andrea is the next male heir?

Question: if the Princess of Hanover predeceases her brother, who is first in line then ? Andrea or Stephanie ?

Andrea. He's ahead of Stephanie in the line of succession, and remains the son of the eldest daughter even if his mother dies. -- Curps 12:59, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)

From the Constitution of Monaco (see third paragraph):

La succession au Trône, ouverte par suite de décès ou d'abdication, s'opère dans la descendance directe et légitime du Prince régnant, par ordre de primogéniture avec priorité masculine au même degré de parenté.
A défaut de descendance directe et légitime, la succession s'opère au profit des frères et soeurs du Prince régnant et de leurs descendants directs et légitimes, par ordre de primogéniture avec priorité masculine au même degré de parenté.
Si l'héritier qui aurait été appelé à monter sur le Trône en vertu des alinéas précédents est décédé ou a renoncé avant l'ouverture de la succession, la dévolution s'opère au profit de ses propres descendants directs et légitimes, selon l'ordre de primogéniture avec priorité masculine au même degré de parenté.
Si l'application des paragraphes ci-dessus ne permet pas de pourvoir à la vacance du Trône, la succession s'opère au profit d'un collatéral désigné par le Conseil de la Couronne sur avis conforme du Conseil de régence. Les pouvoirs princiers sont provisoirement exercés par le Conseil de régence.
La succession au Trône ne peut s'opérer qu'au profit d'une personne ayant la nationalité monégasque au jour de l'ouverture de la succession.

Question-2: So theoretically the Princess of Hanover could emulate her grandmother one of these days and the throne go directly to Andrea ...?

Yes, as long as her brother dies without any surviving legitimate descendants. -- Curps 17:18, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Question-3: The article on Les Baux de Provence states that Caroline, Princess of Hanover is now Marquise des Baux. Is it really true (would mean that it is somewhat "automatic") or would it need a decision by the Prince Albert II to confer this title to his sister?

Hmmm, actually I'm not sure if this is true... maybe it's reserved for Albert's own future firstborn son. I looked at http://www.palais.mc/ but there's no information. -- Curps 21:50, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)
In this case I think that it would be more prudent to remove that from Les Baux page... in addition that 'information' has propagated to the Albert II and to the Caroline page...

Hi. I just found this website, which looks sober enough. It's outdated since it still lists Rainier III as reigning prince, but it already takes into consideration Princely Law 1.249. The issue I see is that, as you will notice, it has Princess Antoinette and her descendants in line for succession.
Our article states that the Princess and her issue have been removed from the line of succession on the occasion of the accession of Albert II, but could still be eligible in case the throne falls vacant. Well, first it looks to me as a bit of a contradiction, since either you're excluded or you're still in line. If you've been excluded from succession, you can't be brought back bureaucratically because it may be convenient (or can it be?). More to the point, it may be that the Princess and her descendants have not actually been excluded from succession, but only bumped down in favor of all of Rainier's descendants, present and future. If that is the case, our article would need some rephrasing — although I have not read the Monegasque Constitution or Princely Law 1.249, so I could be misinterpreting all of this. Regards, Redux 18:41, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Antoinette and her descendants are indeed out of the line of succession, as of the death of Rainier. This doesn't mean that they are excluded or disqualified from ever sitting on the throne (as a Catholic would be for the British throne), it just means they're no longer on a list, where if all the people above you on the list die you automatically become the sovereign.
The only way that they could ever conceivably reach the throne is if the entire current line of succession became empty and Albert died, in which case the Crown Council would have to meet as per the constitution to pick some relative out of the direct line (un collatéral in the words of the constitution), who must be of Monegasque nationality, as the new sovereign. In the event of this unlikely disaster, it seems entirely reasonable that the Crown Council would wish to pick someone from Antoinette's line, but they would indeed pick and choose the person of their choice... the succession of any specific person would not be automatic, because Antoinette and her descendants are no longer automatically ranked within the line of succession, and any one of them (or indeed all of them) could indeed be passed over. -- Curps 18:50, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Nationality

Do children not take the nationality of their father's ? I would have thought that the Ducruet children were French and therefore not eligible for succession.?

Can't the Prince grant Monegasque citizenships to whomever he wants ?

[edit] Nationality

I suppose you are right - he can do whatever he wants !

I believe that in a situation as with the children of Princess Stephanie, it would be most likely that the children would use the citizenship of the parent who is of a higher rank, this being Princess Stephanie. However it is possible that they have dual citizenship. ((Cooldoug111 02:25, 2 August 2005 (UTC)))

[edit] Princess Alexandra of Hanover

I am watching the enthronement ceremony on TF1. They say it seems that there are doubts about the presence of Princess Alexandra in the list of succession because she is protestant. Catholicism is a state religion in Monaco.Hektor 09:43, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Does the Monaco constitution not say that a child must be born from a lawful, catholic marriage. This would mean that Alexandra is not in line, as her parents did not have a catholic wedding, nor could they, as in the eyes of the catholc church he is still married to his first wife.

[edit] Mathieu Snaet

Princess Stephanie is currently married to Mathieu Snaet ...? where is the evidence to support this this ? Palace officials have consistently denied that a marriage took place.

[edit] Elisabeth-Anne de Massy

How could Elisabeth-Anne de Massy have been in line to the throne, if her parents were not married? User:Zoe|(talk) 00:41, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Elizabeth-Anne de Massy was born on 13th January 1947. Her parents were married in December 1951. She was legitimized by her parents marriage and therefore eligible to succeed.

Thanks. That should probably be made clear. I'll try to do that. User:Zoe|(talk) 18:39, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] French Treaty Issues

It seems someone should explain the historical and possible present treaty issues. There was some issue as to who could inherit the thrown without the country reverting to France under treaty.--CSvBibra 01:30, 9 December 2006 (UTC)