Talk:Lincoln LS

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Fine vehicle. V6 due for phase out this summer --Pmeisel 00:25, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Links

Hi, I'm speaking on the behalf of another user. User 68.47.246.21 said recently the link to the LS Owners Club site should be removed since the site charges for most of its services and the link is thereby not fit for a non-profit encyclopedia article. Thanks. Gerdbrendel 05:04, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

There is plenty of free content at the LLSOC web site (see the FAQ [1], or the One Lap of America coverage) - the registration and membership is OPTIONAL as clearly stated at the site. The membership fee is to join the Club itself - not to view the web site. This is permitted elsewhere in Wikipedia - for example - Motor Trend Magazine has a full wiki-article, along with a link there to the magazine's web site; where there is free content, along with subscription information, and special services and articles exclusively for paid subsribers. If the LLSOC required visitors to blindly pay a fee up front before they could view any of their pages, then that might suggest it is not appropriate. LLSOC is simply offering a membership to the Club, for an annual fee - just like a subscription. Do you have a link to the Wiki-policy which forbids this - or can you quote it here? If it is exactly as you suggested, then you would have to also delete any links to any clubs that collect a membership fee, and any links to subscription magazines such as Motor Trend, in the Wikipedia. I do not believe it is Wikipedia's intent to forbid providing links to any clubs which may have a membership fee - especially when the club is directly related to the wiki-article where it is posted, and would therefore be of particular interest to many wiki-readers who might read the article. I believe the intent of the policy is to avoid having people posting links their own personal web pages which may include trojan horses and viruses, or links to, for example, subscription porn sites. -- T-dot 12:03, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

I see have forwarded your message to User 68.47.246.21. Personally I'm indifferent on the issue- don't shot the messenger ;-). Gerdbrendel 17:36, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

If there are no logical arguments which are consistent with Wiki policies to ban the LLSOC links, I will reinsert them. Whoever has an issue with this can post here directly. joelincoln 17:25, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

The biggest issue with LLSOC is that it's an exclusive membership that charges to view content on that website. There has been some discussion from my understanding that LLSOC is allowing "guest" memberships but it is limited to content. I think that if it isn't a FREE full service forum like Lincolnsonline.com or LincolnvsCadillac.com then the links should be deleted. Until LLSOC allows free access to the website with access to important content then it should not be allowed on Wikipedia.

LLSOC is NOT a free site! You must pay to be a member to view the content. Please do not include it on the External Links section. This has been discussed too many times.

Since Pingmaster seems to have a problem with the paid nature of LLSOC (remember, you get what you pay for) I'll post the link to their FAQ which is free and includes a lot of useful info. joelincoln

Why do you keep pulling the link to LincolnvsCadillac.com Brendal? Joeychgo 20:30, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Replacement for...

I think that some of the information in the matrix at the bottom of the page shows the MKZ replacing the LS. From articles that I have read the MKS will replace the LS not the MKZ. I think that needs to be updated to reflect that. The MKZ is targeting a totally different market than the LS was slated for. (from: Pingmaster - 14:29, 17 April 2006 [2])

Here is the story. The Lincoln LS was originally marketed as a personal luxury sports sedan - as an American version of similar sedans from Germany and Japan. It essentially replaced the Lincoln Mark VIII coupe in Lincoln's lineup, but the market place for luxury sports coupes was drying up, as Baby Boomers were having (more and older) children, and needed more doors. The original LS was intended for upper-middle class baby boomers who were looking for a sophisticated sporty car with tight handling and fun-to-drive performance, but also needed room for the kids and car seats and easier rear seat access. The LS was available in a $30,000 base stick-shifting V6 (like some Euro and Japanese sedans), and ranged up to around $40,000 loaded in V8 trim, in the 2000-2002 vintage years. The previous V8 Mark VIII was also priced in the $40,000 class. In 2003 the LS went up market, with some additional sophistication and a little more power, and was priced in the $35,000 base to $45,000 loaded range. In 2005, the base V6 was dropped, and the car went up market again, as a $40,000 base V8 that topped out to around $48,000 fully loaded.

Now the 2006 Lincoln Zephyr 3.0L V6 sedan replaced the vacant slot left behind by the 3.0L V6 version of the LS in 2005 - the pricing is pretty close. Next - the more powerful 3.5L V6 Lincoln MkZ replaces the Zephyr for 2007, and thus by extension the MkZ is the replacement for the V6 LS. It is a size smaller (C-D class rather than D-E), but fills essentially the same mission.

Meanwhile, the Lincoln MkS (still only semi-confirmed for production in 2008) is intended as a "Flagship" replacement for the loaded V8 LS, and also to some extent also the larger but previously abandoned Lincoln Continental class of personal luxury cars. The Continental was known for it's huge trunk (golf clubs) and roomy interior with pampering luxury, which appealed mostly to aging retireesof its day. Aging Boomers are now reaching peak income, sending the kids off to college, and approaching post-SUV-age empty nest years and early retirement. Nevertheless, Boomers are refusing to grow "old", and are looking for sharp styling, and snappy handling and performance, along with some well deserved luxurious accomodations, easy entry and exit, and trunk space for golf clubs and such. The MkS is aimed squarely at that market, aimed a bit higher than the LS, but still essentially replacing the final, loaded high end premium-elite V8 version.

Conclusion - these "replacements for" are not always perfectly "clean" in the sense of one for one. Cars are built and changed periodically to meet shifting consumer's needs and tastes - not necessarily to replace an older previous vehicle design directly. As market tastes and needs shift, the car lines shift with them as best as they can, by attempting to cater to specific "missions". Thus the LS is being replaced by 2 cars - the MkZ at the low end, and the MkS at the high end. The LS itself essentially started a new market - personal luxury sedan - but also sort of replaced 2 cars: the Mark VIII on the "personal luxury coupe", and then later on also replaced the Continental on the "higher end luxury sedan" side. The MkS is then essentially a replacement for the Continental and the LS (high end) missions. Confusing - yes. But thats how it is in a shifting marketplace. Hope this helps clarify it some. --T-dot 20:53, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

T-dot is right, the manner in which cars are replaced is confusing. Cars are market according to consumer demands, if demand shifts from say, coupes to sedans, than manufacturers will follow by stopping the production of coupes and increasing the production of sedans. Thereby sedans would be taking the place of coupes, in the sense that the same group of consumers is trageted. But, in order to add a vehicle to the "Predecessor" or "Successor" space inside the infobox the vehicles should be of similar body style and market segment; thus a V6 compact couldn't replace a full-size V8, even if the company cancel production of the former and increased production of the ladder due to shifitng consumer demands. It is important to remember that vehicles should be similar as well in order to be consider successors or predecessors. Thank you. Regards, Signature^brendel 03:30, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't agree with T-dot simply because Lincoln has stated that the MKS is the replacement for the LS and not the Continental. The Continental is not even made any longer to begin with. Also, you are giving the readers here at Wikipedia the false impression that the MKZ is the replacement for the LS. Typically, car manufacturers do not manufacture two cars at the same time if it is the replacement vehicle. So, the Zephyr (aka MKZ) and the LS were in production at the same time. I will repeat...the Zephyr (aka MKZ) is NOT the replacement for the LS. Please adjust your matrix accordingly. (from Pingmaster at 08:48, 18 April 2006 [3].)

Yes, it is. The MKZ is the the replacement for the LS V6 and the for the V6 only, as the V6 model was an entry-level luxury car. Upon introduction of the Zephyr/MKZ the LS V6 was discontinued. The MKS is a larger sedan which is to be marketed in the main luxury segement (not entry-level) thus it is similar to the LS V8, and V8 model only and the Continental, as both the LS V8 and Continental were marketed towards a similar audience, were techonology oriented and were prived above $40k featuring V8 engines. Bottom Line: The MKX replaces the LS V6, the MKS replaces the LS V8 and Continental. Thank you. Regards, Signature^brendel 15:01, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

You are wrong again. Go to Lincoln's website here: http://www.lincoln.com/lincolnls/home.asp This will show you that the MKS in lower right hand corner as the replacement for the LS. As far as the V6 LS goes, it is the same vehicle as the V8 LS. Only the engine is different. It isn't a smaller car and it isn't a Front Wheel Drive car like the Zephyr. I don't know where you are getting your information from but Lincoln has stated before that the Zephyr is NOT the LS replacement. It targets a totally different car market. The Zephyr does not compete in the BMW 5-series category like the LS does. Regardless of engine size! Wow! I can not believe I am even debating this. (from Pingmaster at 23:14, 18 April 2006 [4].)

Yes the MKS is the replacement for the LS but for the V8 model only. The MKZ is the replacment for the V6. Yes, they're both LS models, but one is entry-level luxury, while the other is mid-level luxury. One uses a V6, the other a V8 -they are in different market segment. It was not a coincidence that the V6 was dropped just before the Zephyr was introduced. The MKZ is Lincoln's new entry-level luxury sedan, as was the LS V6. The LS V8 was a mid-level luxury car, as will be the new MKS. As T-dot said, I quote: "Now the 2006 Lincoln Zephyr 3.0L V6 sedan replaced the vacant slot left behind by the 3.0L V6 version of the LS in 2005 - the pricing is pretty close." And that's exactly it! You see, the MKS is the replacment for the LS, but only the 2005 LS. The V6 was dropped for 2005!!! There is only one LS V8 starting at $39k now, so yes the MKS will be the replacement for the 2005 $39k LS V8. The MKS is not the replacement for the 2004 $32k LS V6, that model was replaced by the Zephyr. Get it? The entry-level LS V6 was dropped for 2005 and replaced by the Zephyr. Now there is only one $39k LS V8 which is going to be replaced by the MKS. FYI: Only the LS V8 competes with the 5-Series. The LS V6 was an entry-level luxo car and did not compete with the 5-Series, but the 3-Series. It's not about engine size but about pricing, the LS V6 was priced in a completely different segment than the V8. Regards, Signature^brendel 04:17, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Brendel, the MKS is replacing the LS both V6 and V8. The LS was not two different cars because it had two engine choices. Its like purchasing a BMW 5-Series, you have the V6 option of 525, 530, or V8 option of 550 yet the car is the same. The MKZ/Zeyphr is Lincoln's competitor to the C-Class, A4, and 3-Series. The Lincoln LS was aimed at the E-Class, A6, and 5-Series as is the MKS. Please do not undo my change for it would be posting incorrect information if you do. (from anon. 24.186.83.117 - 21:56, 19 April 2006 [5])

No, the LS was not aimed at the E-Class, it was an entry-level car, up until 2005 when the V6 was dropped. It was marketed at the 3-Series and 5-Seires. You see, it is not about the engine size but the pricing. Yes, the E-Class has an option of V6 and V8, but it is not in two different segments! Both E-Class models cost between of $40k and $60k which makes them mid-lux. The LS with the V6 option was too affordable to compete with the E-Class, only the V8 was mid-lux. The LS was one of very few cars which had two different engine choices which conincidentally lay in two different market segements. That's why the LS is often referred to as an entry-level luxury sedan, until it moved upward in 2005 with the LS V6 being dropped and the V8 costing $39k. Also, even if you don't beleive in differentaiting between the V6 and V8, the LS was en entry-level luxury car as well as mid-level, its in the pricing. A car priced in the $30k-$40k range is en entry-level, a car upwards of $40k is a mid-lux. See it this way, the LS competed with both the 3-Series and 5-Series. The more affordable V6 model was aimed at the 3-Series and the more expensive V8 model at the 5-Series. So since the LS was also an entry-level car up until 2005, the MKZ which is Lincoln's new entry-level luxo car, is most defenitely one of the LS' successors as is the mid-level MKS. The LS was in two segments and so are its successors. Regards, Signature^brendel 06:20, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

EVERYONE PLEASE - Ford's official position on the LS replacements (Zephyr/MkZ and MkS): "Ford isn't calling the MKS a direct replacement for the LS, because the midsize 2006 Zephyr sedan is intended to be part of the automaker's replacement strategy for the LS." and "Next year, the Zephyr will be renamed the MKZ (Mark-Z), part of a new Lincoln strategy to give its vehicles alphabetical monikers the way some other luxury automakers do." and "The V-6-powered Zephyr (base price $29,960, including freight) has more interior space than the LS. It should appeal to people who might have bought the V-6 version of the LS, which has been discontinued already, (Lincoln MKS marketing manager Mike) Peyton said. The price of the V-6 model began at $33,110 last year." and "The larger MKS sedan is intended to appeal to consumers who would choose the V-8-powered LS, whose base price for 2006 is $39,945." and "It (MkS) will serve as one of two vehicles that Ford will provide to dealers to replace the midsize LS sedan, which is being discontinued at the end of the current model year." [6]. Case closed! --T-dot 15:26, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

HELLO?????????, if the LS was aimed at the 5 Series it was also aiming at the E-Class for the E-Class and 5-Series are famed rivials. (from anon. 152.163.100.200 at 18:02, 20 April 2006 [7].)

Yes, and so was the 3-Series and the C-Class. The LS V6 was an entry-level car. The LS was replaced by two cars as it was sold into segments and competed with two segments. The LS V6 was an entry-level luxo car, while the LS V8 was a mid-level luxo car. The V6 version was aimed at the 3-Series, while the more expensive V8 version was aimed at the E-Class. Yes, it is rare that a car has two versions of it in two different segments but so was the case of the LS. The LS competed with both entry-level and mid-level luxury cars and thus is going to be replaced by two, one entry-level and one mid-level, luxury cars. Please read this quote from the newspaper article T-dot provided: "The V-6-powered Zephyr (base price $29,960, including freight) has more interior space than the LS. It should appeal to people who might have bought the V-6 version of the LS, which has been discontinued already, Peyton said. The price of the V-6 model began at $33,110 last year." and "The larger MKS sedan is intended to appeal to consumers who would choose the V-8-powered LS, whose base price for 2006 is $39,945. The LS is derived from the Jaguar S-type sedan, and both the V-6 and V-8 engines used in the LS were modified from Jaguar designs." Regards, Signature^brendel 23:05, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rainbow/altered background images on several lincoln pages

Lincoln LS
Lincoln MKZ

Lincoln Town Car

My contention is that these images are not in the normal formatting convention of wikpedia. I tried to look elsewhere, but I can't find any instances where someone has butchered a picture like this for the sake of formatting. The person doing the inserts claims it is better than a candid street shot. Too much POV and artistic endeavour? I don't think white will do, since the edges of the image are damaged. In simple terms it looks amateurish.

What say you?

CJ DUB 20:19, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

POV? Too much creativity? Well, perhaps by extremely bourgeois standards ;-). But this is WP we don't hold on to some kind of doctrine like insecure turtles, we are pragmatic and open to innovation. The images are prefereable over the usual on-the-street crap. Just because other articles don't have images as fancy doesn't mean these articles can't have them. That said, I plan on using a white background in the future Signature^brendel 20:25, 8 April 2007 (UTC)