Talk:Libertatia
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[edit] Fictional?
Why is this in the fictional countries category? It's just conjecture that it never existed, and there's more evidence for the fact than against it. --67.171.102.73 10:06, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
- i agree, additionally the links provided as "references" in the opening section for examples of doubt regarding the matter take you to what is essentially little better than a blog. The dubious quality of the linked site is even less than that of wikipedia.
- The "fictional countries" catagory is exactly where this belongs. The anon poster above wrote "It's just conjecture that it never existed"...In fact, it is only conjectural that it did exist. The article indicates an existence of "about 25 years". If this were true, there would surely be extant archaeological evidence, but no mention is made of this...I believe this shold reman as fictional unless/until better documentation can be had. Engr105th (talk) 01:09, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Libertarian?
If we take the original usage of the world libertarian then we can definatly say that the anarchists there were libertarian. But the word libertarian in this page links to American Libertarianism, which is actually classical liberalism. If these pirates operated collectivly, that means that their philosophy was libertarian socialist, not classical liberal or American Libertarian. Shouldn't that be changed to reflect this? -69.123.9.255 18:20, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
- Done. The Ungovernable Force 18:40, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
I agree. Well, I think the term Libertarian(American or otherwise) should be extracted all together. They obviously had a political philosophy closely related to many forms of anarchism in that they opposed statism and advocated communal living, but to call them anarcho-socialist would be assuming their collective views were in complete accord with the philosophy. This commune with its moral objection against greed is a great example for advocating many forms of anarchism, communal living, and anti-statism, but doesn't denote any specific political philosophy which didn't exist at the time.
- I agree about removing the libertarian term as well, likely the best bet would be to leave any attempts at labels out of this article. Theoretical anarchism is completely different from actual anarchism; likely it was a mix and blending of a numerous amount of ideologies. Placing a modern label on a historical (or fictional) society is little better than an attempt to attach one's own beliefs to what can be construed as an "utopian society". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.43.215.81 (talk) 00:21, 6 March 2007 (UTC).
New message - There are serious contradictions to the author's argument in Vol. II of the General History of Pyrates published in 1728. The author - the only source for the whole story - specifically states that Misson wanted to set up a representative democracy to make just laws. This is not the usual definition of "anarchism"... It should also be noted that the same text says Misson died on the way back to America (or at least his ship sank with all hands) and that Thomas Tew died later. This gives a firm date since Tew is known to have died c.1696. The General History was first attributed to Defoe in the 1930s - this has been challenged by recent authors including Marcus Rediker. However the author was, he had some very interesting and advanced ideas for his time - and probably a vivid imagination. Not signed on in English - Tiercelin1852 on Wikipedia France.
- Yes, Misson dying before Tew gives us a firm date. Unfortunately the Life of Captain Misson contains other firm dates - his naval career before becoming a pirate clearly takes place some twelve years AFTER Tew's death, as he is said to have been present at actions which took place in 1707-08. I suspect that this inconsistency was introduced deliberately to show that the story was fictional. The Life is the only evidence - there's no archaeology to back it up, no earlier references, and later references all appear to derive from the Life. Every other life in the General History not only describes known persons but has actually come to look MORE accurate as more evidence has come tp light: the author was clearly very knowledgeable: but there is absolutely nothing which corroborates this story. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.189.160.36 (talk) 00:59, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
