Talk:LGBT rights in Saudi Arabia
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Gosh this page needs a lot of work! I hope I eliminated some of the outright misinformation. Why the heck is censorship and the prohibition of nightclubs discussed here? Are they gay issues? The police also raid heterosexual parties. Why is the US Don't Ask, don't tell policy' mentioned here? Is that related to Saudi Arabia? Why are conditions on Camp mentioned? Would that not be better in the WikiTravel tour guide? I am not happy with this at all. Paul, in Saudi 18:30, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
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[edit] Deleted Text
(Just to make things easier, I will toss the stuff I am cutting here. If anyone want to discuss my edits this makes it easier.) Paul, in Saudi 05:40, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
- Movie theaters and nightclubs are prohibited, but theaters are allowed on the Aramco compounds albeit any films shown are censored and available long after they have been released in America or Western Europe. Westerns often prefer to use the theatre for the exhibition of local musicans, plays, and artists. It is unlikely that the production of plays is subject to any offical censorship board as many of the comedy plays often make jokes about American politicians and even include characters that cross-dressed.
- Satellite television is illegal, but the rule is generally ignored and thus members of the middle class can gain access to less censored Arabic and English news and entertainment, although the Saudi government has been known to jam the signal when satellite programming includes criticism of the Saudi royal family. The satellight programming does not appear to censor television sitcomes that make refence to homosexuality, although popular American shows such as Will & Grace and Queer as Folk, with more explict homosexuals themes, have not aired.
- Middle-class foreigners living on an Aramco compound are likely to find the atmosphere more relaxed with a unofficial policy of tolerance provided that gay employees maintain a public image of confirmed bachelors, and keep their homosexual behavior in private homes, and do not involve Saudi citizens, married adults or minors.
- [1].
- rganization is permitted to exist. The underground Green Party of Saudi Arabia is the only political organization in Saudi Arabia that supports gay rights. Forigners should not expect assistance from their country of origin if they are arrested for homosexuality. Informal and discreet social networks do exist, but are subject to police harassment and arrest. Due to the Islamic mores that require the segregation of the sexes, foreigners will notice a degree of situational bisexuality.
[edit] Expat Gay and Lesbian Community
- Middle class gay and lesbian westerners living on an Aramco compound will generally be able to avoid harassment if they present a public image of heterosexuality or assexuality, avoid relationships with minors, married adults or with Saudi citizens. On the private Aramco compiunds, the local law enforcement operates under slightly more relaxed rules then the rest of the nation and will be willing to ignore the private lives of employees as long as their is suffient plausible denibilty to do so. However, the Aramco Oil company has no non-discrimination policy, and thus the unwritten policy amounts to something similar to Don't Ask, Don't Tell.
- Gay women, are likely to be even more invisible then gay men due to the restrictions placed on women in the kingdom. Like gay men, they shall be treated as bachelors, but will not be allowed to drive off the Aramco compound. While all the reports on punishment for homosexuality have involved men, female homosexuality is certainly equally illegal and gay would should take the same precautions as gay or bisexual men.
I deleted the above section (again, I think). It is not accurate, it is not relevant, it is not wise. 1) It is not accurate. Westerners on non-Aramco compounds have much the same life as on Aramco compounds. The main Aramco compound is called 'Camp,' by the way. How about non-Western Gays? Do they count? Is the Wiki a Westerner-only source? 2) It is not relevant. This mentioning of 'Don't ask, don't tell' has nothing to do with the subject at hand. (Why is it bolded?) 3. It is not wise. Drawing attention to the Gay/Lesbian lifestyle in Saudi Arabia may put people's lives at risk. Why do it? Paul, in Saudi 17:53, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Slow Motion Revert War!
OK, I deleted the above again. Micahbrwn added it back again with no comments. He does not seem to read his talk page.
Look, I live in Saudi Arabia. I am writing this in Saudi Arabia. I know of what I speak. Will & Grace airs here. I like the show. There is no reputable evidence the Saudi government does (or can) censor satellite TV. Saying otherwise is simply false.
There are a number of Gay communities here. They are generally segregated by nationality. I deleted the mention of them (again) out of a simply desire that we keep people safe and out of jail.
Look, maybe I am wrong to delete the section on Aramco, but can we at least discuss it? Paul, in Saudi 04:55, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Removal of Falacious and Prejudiced Information
I removed the following from the Saudi gay and lesbian community section:
- Officially, there are no LGBT Saudi citizens because all citizens are Muslim and homosexuality and cross-dressing are judged to be against the teachings of Islam. Instead there are only criminals, mostly foreigners, who engage in such immoral activities and thus the only public acknowledgment of LGBT people in the kingdom are new reports about people being punished for specific acts.
This entire paragraph appears to be falacious and based on superstitious and prejudiced beliefs. Not all citizens of Saudi Arabia are Muslim. Only in the government's eyes are there no LGBT citizens. Homosexuality and "cross-dressing" (i.e., transgenderism) are only judged by some people to be against the teachings of Islam; many Islams do not subscribe to this belief. The entire final sentence is rubbish on its face, clearly the work of someone with a homophobic agenda.
Cory Fryling 00:53, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
