Talk:Lewis Hamilton

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[edit] Third

Ok Correct me if I am wrong, but surely Lewis was third in 2007, he was equal on points with Alonso, but Alonso had more race wins. Sorry for not loggin in. Chris.

Edit: I am incorrect, they both had 4 race wins, however with that in mind it was a perfect tie and I think it should be listed as "Joint Second" rather then "Second"

Hamilton had more second places than Alonso, so that puts him ahead. His position was second.--Don Speekingleesh (talk) 13:23, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "Dennis"

I don't know anything about Formula 1, and don't know who "Dennis" is as mentioned in the first paragraph. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.151.55.194 (talk) 19:54, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

That is refering to Ron Dennis the McLaren team principal. I changed the paragraph to clarify this. sdgjake (talk) 20:34, 26 November 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Lewis Hamilton picture in overview box

The new version of the Lewis Hamilton picture in the overview box was changed again to the old version again without a reason. I change it back to the new picture as it has a better quality and is a good portrait photo. The previous picture is more like a snapshot. Regards --84.161.197.25 18:06, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

So what if it's a snapshot, many overview box pics of sportsmen are snapshots.

Also the 'new' picture ain't flattering and thats putting it gently. I bet even Lewis would prefer the old one.

Besides there a related photo slightly down the page with him in the middle of some other guys.

I prefer the 'old' picture as well. The new one just looked a bit daft (And the new one was a snap shot too, wasn't it? Judging from the fact its released onto wikipedia as a self made photo) Narson 12:29, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
From a page composition aspect, and also following Wiki MOS guidelines, neither is wholly acceptable, as the image should be looking inwards towards the centre of the page. One looks outwards, the other straight ahead. Regards, Lynbarn 15:57, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

I've released the following images under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 License. Feel free to use either if they are acceptable.

Tuwile (talk) 19:00, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Archive

I've archived a load of stuff above (see the archive box). I've removed several 'should we have a controversy section discussions', but left the most recent one in case we want to go on with it. Cheers. 4u1e (talk) 14:09, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks 4u. *proffers some jaffa cakes* Narson (talk) 14:22, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

It seems Lewis has been linked to model Naomi Campbell. Just wondering how many drivers and team bosses has she had now. Mind you I suppose it gives them something to talk about at after race parties. I wonder if they all gather round over a beer and discuss Naomi's "telemetry" and the best way to drive her. ROFL —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.177.116.201 (talk) 17:11, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Don't mind if I do. Since they're not biscuits. :D 4u1e (talk) 16:04, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
You could start a whole new controversy section on jaffa cakes not being biscuits. I made the mistake of mentioning it last time we had a VAT visit at work. Kelpin (talk) 16:14, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
What about the Jaffa Viennese, where the cakey bottom is replaced with a hard biscuit? Cross dresser perhaps? Narson (talk) 16:33, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
Enough with the cross-dressing already! I'm not even going to ask why the non-gender specific tax individuals were quizzing you about jaffa cakes, Kelpin. Written off against tax? 4u1e (talk) 18:08, 28 November 2007 (UTC) (P.S. Someone will no doubt shortly point out that this page is for discussing the article, not jaffa cakes, transgender or otherwise)

[edit] Lewis Hamilton is mixed race, not Black

This page reads "Hamilton has set numerous F1 rookie records and is the first black driver to compete in Formula One.". However Hamilton is half white, which surely makes him mixed race. The following article from the BBC also confirms his mixed heritage:

see: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/6180602.stm

I would like consensus on this before I change anything... (81.104.246.25 00:03, 1 December 2007 (UTC))

He describes himself as black [1] :
"He admits that Woods is "a sensational athlete", adding: "I hope I can do the same in Formula One. Obviously, being black, it's something a lot of people talk about. If anything it's a positive - it may benefit people in the future and I understand that."
-- Ian Dalziel 00:38, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
Hi 81.104.246.25. The topic of Hamilton's colour/ethnicity has already been discussed in some detail several times here, here and here. I believe the current content of the article reflects the consensus. But thank you very much for seeking consensus before just going ahead and making changes. DH85868993 01:19, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

I have looked through the archive and it appears that they did not come to a consensus. I agree that Hamilton is on record calling himself Black. Should the article not therefore say that he self identifies as black, despite being mixed race, In a similar way to Barack Obama. (81.104.246.25 18:27, 1 December 2007 (UTC))

I must admit I agree with the anon here, what he self idenitifes as is somewhat irrelevent. The issue should be what he is reported as being, however, it seems most sources state black so while I disagree, it means I stand aside on the discussion. Narson 19:15, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
Is this a symbolic warning - marry a black person and have centuries of your family's history erased?--MartinUK 21:56, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
Well, we're all of mixed heritage to varying degrees. Good thing too. FWIW I think it's very easy to get too excited about labels like 'black' - people use it to mean different things. Some people use it for anyone with dark skin colouring (hence the view that Narain Karthikeyan is 'black'). Others mean anyone of a generally 'sub-saharan' appearance, or anyone from a largely African, Afro-Caribbean or African-American culture, more or less regardless of ancestry. Yet others mean any of the various indigenous African peoples, or those recently or relatively 'purely' descended from them, or from a mixture of them.
An accurate and fairly supportable statement would probably be something like 'Lewis Hamilton is of mixed White European and Black Afro-Caribbean ancestry'. But that is clumsy for use in phrases favoured by the media, such as 'LH is the first black driver to....' 'Mixed race' is a not a comfortable substitution: it would be very hard, probably impossible, to establish that no other driver was of 'mixed race' (especially given that afaik, there is no scientifically agreed definition of what 'race' means in relation to Homo sapiens). For example, if you regard Slavs as a 'race', then Emerson Fittipaldi is probably of mixed race, as he has recent Russian and Polish ancestry, as well as Western European. There's also a high likelihood of Brazilian drivers being of 'mixed race' anyway, given that country's highly mixed Indigenous American, Western European and Black African population.
Is 'black' a reasonable shorthand for Hamilton's ancestry? Logically it is not. If you view 'black' as a negative term (I do not), such shorthand may also be offensive, I suppose. On the other hand, 'black' does seem to be most widely used term for someone of his general appearance and background. Perhaps the problem is that we are trying to define a single, factual label, which is probably just not an appropriate approach. Could we use a combination of the following:
  • 'LH is of mixed White European and Black Afro-Caribbean ancestry' (fairly early on in the piece). Pedantic, but probably hard to argue. You probably don't even need to spell it out like this, you get the same effect by saying where his parents come from.
  • 'LH has been called the first black driver to ......' to reference the many firsts attributed to him in the press. 'Has been called' is a bit weaselly, but is true and can easily be referenced. That takes the onus off us to decide what term to use - we report what is written about him.
  • 'LH has self-identified as 'black'.' Somewhere in 'Personal life'?
And that's not a million miles from what we have now. Thoughts? 4u1e 11:43, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
Sometimes the clumsiest solution is the best 4u. I'm with you. Narson 11:54, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

I think the 'LH has self-identified as 'black'.' Somewhere in 'Personal life'? option might be best. We could leave it as Hamilton being described as "black" on the grounds that he has identified himself as such. However, in the personal life section it could read something along the lines of 'LH is of mixed White European and Black Afro-Caribbean ancestry, yet has indentified himself as being black and not mixed race'. Having looked at the definition of 'black' on wikipedia it states that 'black is a racial, political, sociological or cultural classification of people'. He could fall under the political, sociological or cultural, even if he is not entirely of the black race which, in my view, is the common understanding of the term 'black'. any comments? (152.71.41.19 14:21, 3 December 2007 (UTC)).

I wasn't really intending them as options (sorry that wasn't clear!). I think we need to use all three in different places to cover the topic properly. I know what you mean, but I also think we will need to avoid the construction "is mixed race, yet identifies as black", because some people may interpret that as us meaning that he shouldn't do so, or that it is surprising that he does so. 4u1e 16:46, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
Tell you what, this would be a lot easier to do if we knew anything about his mother other than that she is 'white' and called 'Carmen Larbalestier'. Anyone know of a good source of information? Google isn't helping much! 4u1e 17:03, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
If only so called pure blacks could be referred to as black I doubt if there would be any Caribbean black people in the UK, black does not mean pure race (whatever that may mean) so this is a non-sequitur and he should absolutely be referred to as black, using refs to back up the statement. Thanks, SqueakBox 17:08, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
You're right about pure race, of course: there's no such thing. And like 152, my understanding of the use of the terms 'black' and 'white' is that they're not exact terms and they cover some combination of ancestry, culture and appearance, and shouldn't be used in too precise a way. And in those terms, 'mixed race' has a large overlap with both 'black' and 'white' categories. I would personally be happy with just using the term 'black', because of the looseness of the term, because it reflects common usage, and because Hamilton himself uses it.
However, I can see that if one has a different understanding of the term, then the idea that someone who has one 'black' parent and one 'white' parent is 'black' would look odd!
My suggestions above amount to giving the backgrounds of both his parents (which is only fair, his mother's background's not really mentioned at present), mentioning that he 'self identifies' as 'black' (covered by existing content) and adding 'has been called' to the various 'first black driver to..' statement. I take 152 and Squeakbox's comments to mean that we should leave out the last one (which is a bit weaselly), so the only change to be made would be to give his background on his mother's side of the family as well. Is everyone happy with that? 4u1e 19:26, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
Bob Marley is another example, it may be stupid but it is how it is, if people have some black blood in the UK, as in the US, they are considered black whereas if they have some white blood they are not considered white. Thanks, SqueakBox 01:57, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

<-I've argued this point before but to no avail. Do we actually need to say anything about the concentration of melanin in his skin? What relevance does it have? Is it really notable? If so, surely we can find a better way of saying it than "black" (he's no more black than he is white) or "of mixed-race" (a term largely discredited and virtually without meaning). Do away with any mention of his skin colour would be my recommendation. It has no value here. AJKGORDON«» 15:27, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

(Although cultural background might have value.) AJKGORDON«» 08:56, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Regarding the actual importance of the amount of melanin in his skin I completely agree. However, like it or not, skin colour and ethnicity (perceived or real!) do have real effects in our society. Hamilton himself seems to attach some importance to it, judging by answers he has given to (admittedly leading) questions. And we need a way to put in the 'first black driver to...' stuff, because it appears so much in the media. Unsuitable as the terms 'black' and 'white' are, they are the ones most commonly used at present, including by Hamilton, even though their application is often pretty illogical! As soon as you start using 'of African descent' and 'of Caribbean descent', someone points out that there are plenty of white people from Africa and the Caribbean. 4u1e (talk) 09:58, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
I know, I know, 4u1e, you're absolutely right. However, just because the press reports inaccurate inanities doesn't make it encyclopaedic. TBH I don't know what the answer is but I'm sure that some sort of reference to cultural background is more notable and worthy for inclusion rather than simply "black". The term "Afro-Caribbean" doesn't have to imply any "colour" but it's notable that he's the first successful driver from that culture. AJKGORDON«» 10:06, 5 December 2007 (UTC)


Lewis Hamilton is of dual heritage, and under British classification terms is Mixed Race according to the 2001 census. If a 'white' person decides to declare themselves as not being white, they would be seen as being ridiculous, similarly a 'black' person. Lewis' recent ancestry is clearly from two different ethnic/cultural backgrounds, and is therefore dual heritage/mixed race. He simply refers to himself as black because of the ease with the media and possible contention from some of the black community. If he had 3 black grandparents and one white, he could be described as black, but even then if he wanted to declare himself as mixed, or 3/4 black, he is entitled to do so. We as mixed race people don't care what society's interpretation of this and that is, we're fighting for our own identity and for whites to take responsibility in recognising us as being equally associated with them as the black community, and for black people to accept that we should be entitled to refer to our full heritage in terms of ethnicity. It is not up to the white person, nor the black person, quite frankly and we as a community shall say he is mixed race, instead of it being forced upon him to decalre he is black. I mean news reports could EASILY just refer to him as the first British person of black heritage... instead of the first black person, if they wanted to get that point across. It's simply laziness in use of language, that's all it is. Yo might argue, well if he's mixed race, then he's white so he's not actually a first, but this is wrong. Dual heritage identity is an indentity within itself and is not comprised solely of the lives of sociology of the black man and the white man.Invertedzero (talk) 05:58, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

i think at the start of the article when it says where his grandparents or something are from it should say from his fathers side cause at the moment it sounds like it's from both of his familys side which is isn't, but i also agree lewis is identitfied as black in the media as it's most easier Mariah Carey is for the same race as lewis but no one in the media identitfes her as black simpley because she doesn't have dark skin Nicole Riche is also half black (from her birth parents) but not identitfied for the same reason lewis probably concereds himself mixed race but it's simpler to use black as unlike Riche and Carey is very clear he's of Afro-Caribbean desent. where as unless you where fans not many people would know just buy looking that Riche and Carey were mixed race.Veggiegirl (talk) 09:51, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Top Gear

About the timed lap, if you notice carefully you ll see that he cut the Hammerhead(when clarkson says "that is sort of slow and tidy"). He was inside the (faded) curbes. In my opinion he earned some time from that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Leonidass (talk • contribs) 23:16, 3 December 2007 (UTC)


I'm new to editing on Wikipedia, so I want to throw this out there for discussion before posting anything in the article page. Lewis Hamiliton's presence on Top Gear has some relevance to The Stig, and has caused some controversy on that article page. Here is what was listed at one point, then removed. Seems like just facts are presented, though it obviously does not belong on The Stig page (at least the first part about Lewis Hamilton). Any thoughts on posting the first part of the below text, or something similar, under a new section in the Lewis Hamilton page? The second part is just interesting, if speculative.
First part:
On TG 02/12/07, F1 driver Lewis Hamilton drove the reasonably priced car and recorded a time of 1'44.7 in conditions recorded as "wet and oilly." Clarkson commented that Hamilton took a corner on "the line recommended by The Stig." During Lewis Hamilton's interview on Top Gear, Jeremy Clarkson did not ask Hamilton if he was the Stig but did state "Even The Stig has to know 'How did you do that?'" when discussing Lewis' successful lap given the conditions of the track. During the same episode, it is alluded to that Lewis Hamilton is not the Stig.
Second part:
The Stig's voice can be heard in this Dutch TV program (a behind the scenes show to promote Top Gear for Veronica television) interview:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VihIf1Fi-BM
The Stig in the interview speaks with either a British or an Australian accent. When asked why he was chosen to be The Stig and drive fast cars, he responds, "I'm the best." When asked how he became The Stig, a second man shakes his head at The Stig as to indicate 'no.'
Thank you. - StanfordCD 02:03, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

I know a lot of people do find this interesting, but I really struggle to see how it is anything other than extremely trivial. The first bit seems to be a very long way of saying that no-one thinks, or has any evidence to believe that LH is the Stig. The second and third bits have nothing to do with Hamilton. I cannot seen any point in mentioning any of it here.

I personally can see no merit in going into the details of Hamilton's appearance on the show, or of his lap time. It doesn't tell us anything about Hamilton himself. I know others feel differently though, so I won't remove it unless a consensus emerges to that effect here. Cheers. 4u1e 13:08, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

I love Top Gear but, have to agree. It is notable in the Top Gear article, as he is the first 'top of the game' F1 driver to go around the track in his 'prime' so to speak (Yes, I say this even being a Jensen Button fan). However, for Hamilton? I can't imagine driving a crappy car around an air field really qualifies as of note for him. Narson 13:53, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the comments everyone. I just wanted to put it out there for discussion. Maybe if Hamilton starts making some more appearances on TV shows (or sets the Top Gear record, beacuse, hey, it is a comparison against other F1 drivers), a new section can be added. "Entertainment," perhaps? Until then, we have the above text stored here. Thanks, again! - StanfordCD (talk) 00:34, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
Yes, I think that would be the way to go. If Hamilton becomes more of a TV personality, then you could do a good section on it. 4u1e (talk) 09:51, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] youngest world champion

It's a good thing there's no speculation in the article of records that Hamilton 'could' achieve, but I think it would be interesting to mention that although he did not become the youngest world champion this year, he is still able to if he wins the championship next year. What's your view on this? JackSparrow Ninja (talk) 02:30, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

There are plenty of things he /could/ do. Crystal balling just opens the avenue for alot of arguing and is against rules, however if you found a cite from a news source saying that, then, it would be fine to me at least. Narson (talk) 04:05, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not for making POV predictiosn —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.130.26.177 (talk) 00:54, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Should Lewis Hamilton be described as British or English?

I've just come from the David Coultard page where he is described as a 'Scottish Formula 1 driver' (as I would have expected.) I notice immediately that Lewis Hamilton is described as 'British' and not English'. Do others agree that this should be changed? Cheers Fishiehelper2 (talk) 20:51, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Following a spectacular amount of discussion, WP:F1 convention is for British drivers to be described as "a British driver from England/Scotland/Wales/Northern Ireland", on the basis that their nationality as recognised by the FIA is "British". I've updated this article and Coulthard's appropriately. DH85868993 (talk) 02:02, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

It is accurate to say that Lewis Hamilton is English but I would prefer to describe him as British Formula One driver (look when Lewis and David win a race, the flag on the podium is the Union Jack, not the English or Scottish flags). Mxcatania (talk) 02:47, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

The reason we opt for British is essentially that it is what the FIA do - look at all official results, and note the flags and anthems used when a British driver stands on the podium. This makes nationality easily verifiable. Other sports recognise the individual home nations, and so have different conventions. 4u1e (talk) 10:14, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] describtion of the race in China:

this all page seems to be very biased towards Hamilton. for example the Chinese race: "Hamilton himself couldn't tell the full extent of the tyre problem as raindrops were in his wing mirrors." a good driver should feel in what condition are his tyres by how the car is handling. also there is no mention of the fact that the tyres problems resulted coz he overpushed with rain tyres on the drying track (he was the only driver had such problems). and i think it would be necessary to mention that he made an unbelievible error when entering the pits too fast and beached himself into the gravel. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Loosmark (talk • contribs) 13:59, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree to some extent though, I think the part (If sourced) is ok as it says the /full/ extent, it indicates he knew they were bad but couldn't tell they were on the canvas etc as he couldn't see and had to rely on pit info. Narson (talk) 14:20, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
My personal opinion of his performance in that race is much the same - although the team should have taken up some of the slack, since they have considerably more experience. I don't think he did a great job in Brazil either. Bottom line is, find a reliable source that says things are as you describe, and use it to reference such an addition to the article. Cheers. 4u1e (talk) 17:05, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Lewis Carl DAVIDSON Hamilton

I failed to find an Internet reference about Lewis Hamilton being actually called 'Lewis Carl Davidson Hamilton'. Hamilton's official site says the full name is 'Lewis Carl Hamilton' (without 'Davidson'). Someone in the WP article said that the suspected full name appears in the Hamilton's Autobiography, page 33. Can anyone confirm this? If this is true, I think it should be a popular and known data throughout the Internet. Surprisingly, I googled 'L.C.D.H.', and no results were found apart from the English Wikipedia article on Hamilton. I do not want to create an edit war because of this, so I ask people to find a reference for Hamilton's full name. Mxcatania (talk) 01:33, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

The BMD (England & Wales, Birth Index: 1984-2005) has his birth registered as Lewis Carl D Hamilton Jan 1985 Stevenage. --jmb (talk) 17:11, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
Seems conclusive, although really the biography should probably trump pretty much anything you find on the net anyway. 4u1e (talk) 09:02, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Wikinews

How long should we keep the links to Wikinews items? I mean, none of the current ones are exactly "news" any longer. And you have to expect there will be at least a dozen more in 2008... DH85868993 (talk) 08:32, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

I suggest they can be ditched (although new ones will no doubt come along soon!) 4u1e (talk) 18:08, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] About Racism

I was in Montmeló's circuit this day (Im from Madrid) and I can say that the racist insults were a fault of a minority,Thirty persons at most.I think that it should refer in the article,since the majority of fans respected Hamilton and many of them came to extract photos with him or to obtain his autograph. I think that the article is not neutral in this point and transmits an inaccurate information. 83.43.248.128 (talk) 23:04, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

86.143.152.25 (talk) 20:01, 8 June 2008 (UTC)I agree

[edit] Awards section?

Hi there. I don't have any editing history with this article, so apologies if this has been discussed/edited before. I just added the Laureus Award to the lead, as there wasn't an awards section. This then got moved to the appropriate section by another editor. That section is the 'Media Appearances', which really doesn't seem right. I would have thought that a separate section on Awards would be more useful, not just for this award, but the others in that section and the hatful of them he's bound to win beyond the on-track ones. Ged UK (talk) 18:23, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Hello! I moved the sentence to "Media Appearances" because this section mostly concerns Hamilton appearing in the media to receive awards, and it looked out of place by itself in the lead. I've changed the heading from "Media Appearances" to "Media Appearances and awards" - hopefully this will solve the problem.-- Diniz (talk) 16:18, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
Seems perfect to me! I only put it in the lead as a temporary place. I don't like editing section headings on articles I've had no history with if i can avoid it! Ged UK (talk) 16:20, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
The article lists him as having come in first place in the 2008 F1 season, isn't that a little premature? (though with fingers crossed that it will happen!) 82.153.230.138 (talk) 15:44, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
I've added a footnote to the table indicating that the season is still in progres. DH85868993 (talk) 02:57, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Records: Consec. Debut Podiums

Hi. Whoever added the record of most consecutive podiums from debut race has put that the previous record was two. Who acheived this, as I can find no record of it on the web or record books? Will (talk) 18:39, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Then be bold; take it out!--Ged UK (talk) 19:09, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
Peter Arundell, I think. 4u1e (talk) 06:22, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Great, the section now looks like a giant flag monster barfed all over it. Anyone going to object if they are pruned out? Narson (talk) 18:18, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Do it. DH85868993 (talk) 00:23, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Salary

[2] [3]

I believe this is worth mentioning somewhere in the article, but I don't know which section it would fit best in, maybe the lead section? - ARC GrittTALK 14:48, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Most pole positions in debut season

I think it's worth mentioning that Jacques Villeneuve was actually the first to score 3 pole positions in a debut season (1996), hence he should be acknowledged for the previous record holder for most pole positions in a debut season and not Juan Pablo Montoya as the article says. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.143.234.221 (talk) 14:42, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

I've updated it to say that Villeneuve and Montoya jointly held the previous record. DH85868993 (talk) 14:28, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Lewis Hamilton FAC

This article was a featured article candidate and the nomination has now been withdrawn by the nominator. --ROGER DAVIES talk 16:58, 29 May 2008 (UTC)