Talk:Leslie Cochran

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Contents 1 Pronouns 2 Election history 3 List of "weird" Austinites" 4 transvestite vs transgender

[edit] Pronouns

It should be noted that Leslie prefers to be referred to as "she." Should we change all the gender references in this article to represent his/her gender preference? EWS23 | (Leave me a message!) 04:09, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

Done. jareha 06:04, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

No, Leslie is a guy and should be referred to as so, in order to avoid confusion. Perhaps add in a part about calling him a "she", but do not refer to him in the article that way.

Just for reference, looking at articles about Leslie, the Austin Chronicle refers to Leslie as "he" while the Daily Texan refers to Leslie as "she," noting in the article that Leslie prefers to be known as a woman. I think the only major difference is whether you want to avoid confusion and be more technical, or if you want to meet the preference of the individual. Can anyone find an example in Wikipedia of other people with gender-preference issues, and how the article handled it? EWS23 | (Leave me a message!) 07:40, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Update: If you want to browse several pages with similar issues, you can check out the List of transgendered people. I have left a message on that article's talk page in the hopes that someone with more experience in this area could comment or help us out. EWS23 | (Leave me a message!) 07:52, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia naming conventions state that in these cases we should use the pronoun that the person self-identifies as. In this case, that appears to be "she", and it's not without precedent elsewhere, as with the Daily Texan article. Ambi 10:34, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Ambi is correct. The article should use the feminine pronoun. · Katefan0^(scribble)/mrp 20:14, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Where does WP:NC state that? i can't find it. Please provide a link and specify. TIA. Because i think i'm ready to go there and argue against it, since all which is stated in WP is supposed to be sourced elsewhere, so i think that the WP article should refer to the person as s/he is referred to elsewhere, regardless of the subject's preference, which, of course, could be mentioned in the article. --Jerome Potts 20:05, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

I added the qualifier "male" after transvestite, because the female pronouns are misleading as to Leslie's actual gender. I apologize if this is incorrect. ~Neil K., unregistered user

This is too confusing and furstrating in my opinion. Leslie is clearly male, and the pronoun "he" is used to identifies those of the male sex, I see it referring more to sex rather than self-proclaimed gender. As he is actually a man, I feel it makes more sense to refer to him as "he." !BuffettJr

Even if it makes more sense to refer to leslie as a he, you should always refer to a person in their prefered pronoun, transvestite, transgendered it doesnt matter.67.9.164.145 04:34, 7 February 2007 (UTC)skipopidid@msn.com

Agreed, but there seem to be conflicting reports as to whether he has expressed pronoun preference. Rmj12345 06:00, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

We cannot edit based on hearsay -- once a reputable news source confirms that Leslie would prefer to be known as a man, she should be referred to as a woman. Ag1246 17:54, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Regardless of what Mr. Cochran prefers to be called, Wikipedia does not edit articles based upon the subject matter's preferences. Leslie was born male and Wikipedia should reflect that. If you really want to call him a girl, add mention that [insert newspaper name here] said he prefers to referred to as a woman. Although, I've spoken with him, he's not fond of being called a girl. But hey, I'm not a reputable news source so I don't mean shit. I wonder what would be everybody's response if I got a video interview with Leslie stating he prefers to be called a man? I bet nobody would care until the Austin-American Statesman runs an article about it.71.42.73.86 02:15, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

From above: "Wikipedia naming conventions state that in these cases we should use the pronoun that the person self-identifies as. In this case, that appears to be "she", and it's not without precedent elsewhere, as with the Daily Texan article." These are naming conventions and we're going from the most recent source. A video from Cochran would most certainly be welcomed as a primary source, and I encourage you to get one. [1]Ag1246 05:57, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Leslie does not, infact, prefer to be known as a woman. I asked him personally what pronouns to use, and he said to use the masculine ones. Here is a cite: http://www.austinchronicle.com/gyrobase/Issue/column?oid=oid:212988 It is highly rude for people to refer to pre-op transsexuals by their native pronouns, but that is not what is happening here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.65.182.254 (talk) 17:24, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the cite. I've updated the article. Ag1246 03:17, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Election history

There has to be a better/clearer way to organize the "Election history" subsection, but I can't think of it. Any ideas? jareha 06:04, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

I think my latest edit should work. jareha 20:31, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] List of "weird" Austinites"

I've removed the following list of "weird" Austinites, from the Leslie Cochran article.

• Jennifer Gale - frequent gadfly candidate for virtually every office at one point or another. Claims to be a woman, but is in fact a cross-dressing homeless man that often sings to the Austin city council during its meetings.

• Crazy Carl Hickerson - a noted ecentric that spun flowers on his fingers at University of Texas baseball games and refused to use air conditioning or deodorant due to personal convictions. Ran numerous times for Austin city council and never got more than 2% of the vote.

• Shaun Stensol, a.ka. "Radiation Ranger" - unemployed Austin man that ran for city council wearing a gas mask and calling himself the Radiation Ranger to protest the destruction of mother earth. Dropped out of the campaign when he found a job at a Thundercloud Sub shop and still received less than 1% of the vote as his name remained on the ballot.

• Bob Makowski - 40 something year old closeted homosexual male that lived in the West Campus community near the University of Texas and attended classes for over 20 years as a means to milk money from his rich father. Makowski often supplemented his income by serving as a subject of medical tests and by working as a telemarketer. He never ran for office.

• Ray Blanchette - disgruntled Austin man that ran several times for Austin city council due to his anger over having his trash-dump of a home condemned and torn down. He rarely got more than a handful of votes.

• Steve Mason - bearded 40 something Austin male that often wears a scorpion belt and frequently rails against immigrants on Austin cable access tv. Has yet to run for local office despite repeated threats to do so.

If you disagree with my decision, bring it up at the Austin, Texas talk page. jareha 17:10, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Seems more appropriate for the Austin page, or maybe even Keep Austin Weird. · Katefan0^(scribble)/poll 17:52, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. Hadn't thought of the Keep Austin Weird article — that could work. jareha 18:05, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] transvestite vs transgender

The article refers to Cochran as a transvestite... but if she prefers to be addressed as "she", doesn't that make her transgendered, rather than transvestite? My understanding is that transvestites are people whose self-identified gender matches their sex, but who wear clothing typical of the opposite gender. Is Cochran an exception? Do we know for sure that she prefers to be known as "transvestite", rather than "transgender", despite her preferred pronoun? --Allen 01:14, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't know man. There doesn't seem to be a clear answer as to whether Cochran identifies as male or female. The name change referenced in this article seems to suggest that he's transgendered, but the articles linked refer to him with both female and male pronouns. Rmj12345 23:18, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

He's a transvestite, and I've never heard him talk about any operations that make it the contrary. Or even him mentioning what he prefers to be called. I'd say male references are the way to go for an encyclopia, at least without proof to the contrary. Sln3412 06:21, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

But there *is* proof to the contrary. The "Daily Texan" article says quite clearly "Leslie, who prefers to be known as a woman...". If that's the only reference we have to how Cochran wants to be referred to, then the pronouns should be changed. -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 06:21, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Regardless of what Mr. Cochran prefers to be called, Wikipedia does not edit articles based upon the subject matter's preferences. Leslie was born male and Wikipedia should reflect that. Besides, if Wikipedia was edited depending on how the subject's preferred, I doubt there would be a murder trial mention on O.J. Simpson's article, or a Monica Lewinsky blurb on Clinton's. 71.42.73.86 02:15, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Incorrect. From Wikipedia:Naming: "Self identification: When naming or writing an article about specific people or specific groups always use the terminology which those individuals or organizations themselves use. Transsexual people, for example, should be referred to using the personal pronouns (male, female, or another) that they themselves prefer." [2] Ag1246 23:25, 27 September 2007 (UTC)