Talk:Lesbophobia

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[edit] Rationale for "Lesbiphobia" article

I believe that an article on the topic of Lesbiphobia is a valuable entry on Wikipedia, as there are a not insignificant number of lesbians who prefer to use this term to the more 'mainstream' and general "Homophobia". I believe, as I have also stated in the article, and I am aware of other lesbians who also believe this, that to be included in the rubric of "Homophobia" lumps the specific concerns of lesbians in with gay men once again, and I believe that, while we do share many concerns, the two subcultures are quite distinct politically, socially, and in other ways, and the oppression of Lesbians can play out differently as well.

I realize that technically and historically, Gay men and Lesbians have often been included in the "Homo" category of Homophobia, due to the interest of each in a same-sex culture, but I believe that Lesbians can be considered at least as distinct from Gay Men as from Bisexuals or Transgendered Individuals, and these other two are considered as viably distinct categories in Wikipedia.

Thank you for your interest in my article, and for your time.

Also, I am sorry, but I don't know how to remove the "For Deletion" Tag, so I didn't. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kootenayvolcano (talk • contribs) 06:15, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

I do know how to delete the "for deletion" tag, so I did, wanting to give you an opportunity to work further on this article and improve it/justify it further. However, if not further improved, it may still be subject to the Articles for deletion process (AfD for short), which while a longer process still may lead to this article's deletion. In fact, I would almost guarantee it, without significant improvements.
Some of those I would suggest, at the very least:
  • Citations to back up the assertions made in the article. This is in line with the Wikipedia policy WP:VERIFY. If you're unfamiliar with how to do it, see WP:CITE.
  • Any sources (& text to go with it) that might demonstrate the importance of the use of this term as against homophobia.
  • Addition of categories to connect this article up with related topics.
I'm a lesbian myself, but am not as of this moment convinced of the necessity for this article as a separate article. If you're unable to make improvements as suggested above, I would recommend trying to integrate some of your text into the existing article on Homophobia.
I appreciate your use of edit summaries when making edits -- so many people neglect to do it! But please remember also when writing comments on talk pages to sign your posts using four tildes ~~~~. This will automatically add your username & the date/time of your post, so that other users can know who/when a given comment was written. --Yksin 16:35, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Keep it

Although controversial (In general), this is a valid article, and should remain. It does, however, need adding to for additional content, as well as a little formating. This article should not be deleted, much like an article about arachnophobia or agoraphobia should not be deleted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by CloneDeath (talk • contribs) 16:40, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Doesn't this fall under homophobia? Also, if we're going to have it, why not have gayphobia, too? Why is the community constanty trying to splinter itself? Come on. --Ragemanchoo (talk) 03:59, 28 May 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Unstubbified

Looks like work done especially by WJBscribe yesterday has whipped this article into pretty good shape, not even a stub anymore but rather "start" class. His additions also convinced me that yes, this article is worthy of standing on its own, separate from the article on Homophobia. --Yksin 16:11, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Thank you WJBscribe for your input. The article has been much improved!

Kootenayvolcano 16:37, 8 August 2007 (UTC)Kootenayvolcano

[edit] Template:Discrimination

Can this Lesbophobia article now be re-added to the "Template: Discrimination" page? It had been removed previously. Kootenayvolcano 16:41, 8 August 2007 (UTC)Kootenayvolcano

I personally don't see why not. I noticed the same person removed it from Template:Discrimination as put the prod on for this article to be deleted. However, it might be good to first initiate a discussion at Template talk:Discrimination, since the template is placed on numerous pages, so establishing consensus first would be a good & politic thing. I'll gladly take part in discussion there in support of "Lesbophobia" being added to the template.
BTW, when you use the four tildes to sign talk page posts, it's unnecessary to also manually sign your name: the four tildes take care of both your username & the date/time, automatically. --Yksin 17:13, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
Two days without further discussion at Template talk:Discrimination -- & the only protest being from the same guy who originally prodded this article for deletion, but who does not seem to have taken time to see how the article has improved since then. Anyway, so I've added Lesbophobia back to the template, & added a further justification to the talk page there, & added the template to this article besides. If there are additional difficulties with this, one place to get support is at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject LGBT studies, which is where I first heard of the attempt to delete this article in the first place. --Yksin 01:38, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lesbi vs. Lesbo phobia

Something that keeps coming to mind that I just want to put out there for possible use. When I see the term "lesbiphobia" I think of les(bian) + bi(sexual) and the intersections of the prejudices they each and both face whereas with "lesbophobia" I more notice the slang "lesbo." I can imagine both spellings being used but have no idea of the etymology of either. Benjiboi 18:05, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

But I think WJBscribe was correct in moving the article to Lesbophobia. When I did a literature search yesterday in Academic Search Premier, I got five hits on lesbophobia (& I some facts & a cite from one of the articles I found that way), zero hits on lesbiphobia. A Google search gets about 11,300 his for lesbophobia, just 126 hits for lesbiphobia. So the "o" version seems to be the one that's mostly in use. --Yksin 18:28, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
Whichever one is used is whatever to me. I think there might be more to the spelling variation than simply a spelling variation. Benjiboi 21:40, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
Ah, gotcha. I don't know if there is more to it than simple spelling variation or not. --Yksin 22:08, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
I was unsure of proper spelling, but lesbophobia seems good to me- just based on number of ref's ect Kootenayvolcano 02:01, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] I didnt see something

I might have missed it, but I didnt see anything about straight or bi males having lesbophobia. Correct me if I'm wrong though. If it's not in there, then could it be added? because as male of one of those two groups (its not one else's business but my own which one I am) and my...dislike of lesbian women (I'm not prejudice, I accept their existence, I just had a rather bad experience with them, and do not wish to think about two women together) I think it should be added. C. Pineda (クリス) (talk) 04:21, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Really, mention of heterosexual (straight) males showing lesbophia is not in this article? What the ....? It surely is not mostly gay men and straight women carrying out lesbophic actions. The reason I linked to this article from the Bianca Montgomery article is because I could have sworn I read something in this article about men raping lesbians due to lesbophia. I would mainly take that to mean heterosexual men. Let me check this article again. Flyer22 (talk) 07:29, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
Uh...Czarbender, you must have missed it. This article most certainly mentions heterosexual males, and as I stated before, mentions the rape aspect. I'm not sure it has to note on bisexual men, since it mentions heterosexual men, as well as gay men. I mean, that pretty much points out that there's no way that it can be absent in all men who consider themselves bisexual either. Flyer22 (talk) 07:39, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Template change + addition

I added the LGBT studies template. Plus, I changed the Discrimination template to a footer until the article gets fleshed out.

I'd like to start a serious discussion of major work on this article (structure and content) being that so much important information is missing despite the great start. --CJ Withers (talk) 01:06, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Intersectionality

I just added some precisions to the intro. As I wrote above, I think the article is missing a lot and needs a structural overhaul. More specifically, the notion of intersectionality deserves its own sub-section instead of being lumped into the "related terminology" heading. In the meantime, I'll be working on the linguistic background of the term. --CJ Withers (talk) 17:47, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Intro section

I've just recast the intro section to include more things. Plus, I've removed harassment because I think the topic deserves its own sub-section later on; clearly, harassment is a form of abuse and abuse is included already. As for the Louis-George reference, I think it can be useful in another section. So, I've placed it here in the meantime: Tin, Louis-Georges (Ed), The Dictionary of Homophobia: A Global History of Gay and Lesbian Experience, (Arsenal Pulp Press, 2007) --CJ Withers (talk) 21:13, 16 May 2008 (UTC)