Talk:Leopold III of Belgium

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"After his abdication, he was given the title Prince Léopold of Belgium, Duke of Brabant."

This is simply incorrect. Contrary to the Dutch queens who reverted to the title 'Princess of the Netherlands' after their abdication, Léopold retained the title of King after his abdication (just like Grand Duke Jean of Luxemburg is still known as Grand Duke Jean). That he was given the title "Duke of Brabant" is simply absurd in my opinion - this is the automatic title of the heir apparent, and, after his abdication, it was still possible that King Baudouin would have children, which would mean that there might have been more than one Duke of Brabant. Erwin 09:36, 15 Jan 2004 (UTC)

The Flemish newspaper De Standaard did an "audit" of Wikipedia. About this article, they write the following:

The English version contains a considerable number of errors. Leopolds first wife Astrid didn't die when she drove down a ravine, but into a lake [fixed by now]; he didn't make himself unpopular by capitulating unilaterally in 1940, quite to the contrary; he didn't return to Belgium in 1945... This unbalanced little article presents Leopold as a determinded resistant, but why did he become so unpopular with his people then? Karl Stas 20:05, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Is the Flemish or French version of this article better? Perhaps one of these could be used as a basis to improve the article? john k 20:52, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Leopold and the atrocities of the Congolese

I see no mention of the horific crimes against humanity that occured in the Congo under his rule. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 167.75.254.253 (talk) 18:18, 15 March 2007 (UTC).

Wrong Leopold, I am afraid. See Leopold II of Belgium.--Pan Gerwazy 14:40, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Political testament of Leopold III, written in January 1944

To understand why Leopold III suddenly became very impopular with part of the Belgian population, the question of the political testament must be addressed. He had called the American and British forces who were soon to invade Belgium, "les forces occupantes".

I quote from http://www.ethesis.net/stripverhalen/stripverhalen_deel_3.htm

"Leopold nam ook een redelijk negatieve houding aan tegenover de geallieerden, die hij beschreef als "les autorités occupantes".[134]"

English translation: Leopold also adopted a fairly negative attitude towards the allies, whom he described as "the occupying authorities".

For those objecting that this looks like a blog (it is actually a website about history surrounding Belgian cartoon strips), the number 134 goes to a text that gives the following books as source for this "les autorités occupantes":

Luykx (Theo) & Platel (Marc). Politieke geschiedenis van België. Antwerpen, Kluwer, 1985 (p 444)

Van den Wijngaert (Marc), Buellens (Lieve) & Brants (Dana). België en zijn koningen: monarchie en macht. Antwerpen, Houtekiet, 2000, p. 203-206 (p 143, p 206)

Kossmann (E.H.). De Lage Landen 1780-1980: twee eeuwen Nederland en België, deel 2: 1914-1980. Amsterdam / Brussel, Elsevier, 1986 (p 224)

Witte (Els). Het maatschappelijk-politieke leven in België 1945-1980. In: Algemene Geschiedenis der Nederlanden, deel 15. Haarlem, Fibula – Van Dishoeck, 1982 (p. 239)

We therefore have enough sources (and all of them secondary - I am not using the text of the testament itself), but Dutch only to ascertain the veracity of Leopold III using "occupation" rather than "liberation" - which was very controversial, both with the allied commanders and with politicians who knew about it. In fact, contrary to Leopold's wishes, the testament was not made public immediately after the allies took control of Belgium, since both the "occupying" force and the main Belgian political parties feared it would greatly benefit the communists.

Now, I am not adding this source in yet, because I am still looking for an English version. According to Google, there is something on JSTORE. (you can help!) --Pan Gerwazy 09:26, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

At this moment, google (no cache in this case, however) gives "Repeat Performance: A Psychohistorical Study of Leopold III and Belgian Neutrality" by Rudolph Binion as a source for the text "His political testament was provocatively imperious in tone as well as contents:" . The link is to JSTOR. I have since noticed that another reason why the allies (particularly the Americans) were not very happy with the testament was that it repudiated all treaties concluded between the Belgian government in London and the Allied governments. Particularly the economic treaty about delivering Congolese uranium to the US!

Google books:

• [1] French, does not mention WHY it was controversial.
• [2] in English, again no mention of the exact reason

A nice little text about the testament, but not mentioning why it was objectionable to the allies, in French: [3] We must be careful about this one, the author seems POV in favour of Leopold III's second wife. (which actually means that it double checks some of the points made above)

Also politically suspect (Walloon nationalist), but quoting two normal historians:

[4] "Velaers et van Goethem ontraison de montrer que le roi, pendant toute la guerre, est vraiment resté totalement neutre (comme son père), envisageant froidement la victoire de l’un ou l’autre camp avec une sorte d’indifférence, traitant les Anglo-saxons dans son Testament Politique comme une autre sorte d’occupants, sans plus." No comment. --Pan Gerwazy 13:50, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] General tone of the article+sources

Baically, this article is too apolegetic of Leopold: it does not mention his personal visits to Hitler, it does not mention the row his wife had with Baldwin and Fabiola over furniture, paintings and memorabilia he took with him whe abdicating. On the other hand, it makes the extraordinary claim that Leopold tried to rule Belgium after the surrender to the Germans, and there is not a shred of evidence that he ever tried that: he considered himself a prisoner who as a result could not act as King. It is true that he consulted advisors when one minister who had been unable to reach unoccupied France, returned to Belgium. Since all the King's actions have to be "covered" by a minister, he could constitutionally have taken over, but the advisors ruled against it, because he had given himself up as prisoner. The minister later escaped to Britain. It is true that prisoners of war do not normally marry, but that is a different story. Leopold having no power after the surrender also means that it is rather silly to cleim he saved the lives of many Belgians by remaining in the country. In fact, the surrender itself probably saved a lot of lives, but afterwards, any difference with other occupied countries was caused by the fact that the nazis installed a military government, and not a civil one. ostensibly, that may have been because the Head of State was still in the country, but most probably it was because HItler did not how to dela with the three main collaborationists sides: unitarist Henri De Man, the VNV and the French-speaking fascists under Leon Degrelle. In fact, the whole thing is badly sourced or unsourced except for some of the criticism added later. That is not a good thing.--Pan Gerwazy 08:55, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I have to agree. It does not read encyclopaedic. Jooler 01:14, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Leopold III made himself particularly unpopular with those with an established interest in the Congo by being outspoken on the subject of his country's brutal colonial past. Anyone interested in Leopold and his historical impact should read "Outrageous Fortune" by Roger Keyes, son of the Royal Navy admiral who liaised with the King during during the Blitzkrieg up unti the evacuation at Dunkirk. It offers a lot of incites conveniently buried by the allies in the post-war years.

--User:vachementchien 17:35, 2 January 2008 (UTC)