Talk:Leo Ryan/Archive 2

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Update on Larry Layton

Dear Friends,

I researched a documentary film on Jonestown a few years ago, and during that job I spoke to some relatives of Larry Layton, to one victim of his violence, and also to one of the lawyers who represented him.

Larry was a prisoner of 18 years whose worst offence in prison was to return a library book late. A key reason why he was realeased is that a parole hearing took place very shortly after 9/11. Jackie Speier, who was badly wounded at the airstrip, is now a major figure in the government of California. She had always argued against Layton's release, but this time, she had other pressing duties because of 9/11.

At the hearing, a key witness was Vernon Gosney, who was shot by Layton at the Port Kaituma scene. Gosney argued that he could not bear that one man should suffer for all the crimes of Jim Jones. Vernon Gosney is now a police officer, living with AIDS, in the state of Hawaii.

Layton has worked at lousy retail jobs since his release, and he absolutely never talks about Jonestown, in spite of the enormous Media attention of recent years. I have spoken to a few of his relatives, and they all say that Larry will just shake his head and decline to comment, even to them. The only exceptions I know of are to his sister (Debbie Layton) and to his lawyers, and then only in refernce to his legal affairs.

Sincerely yours, Robert P. Helms —The preceding unsigned comment was added by BobHelms (talk • contribs) 00:33, 14 March 2007 (UTC).

Notes regarding Leo Ryan

Hello Friends,

I researched a film about Jonestown a few years ago, and in the process I spoke with two of Leo Ryan's daughters, as well as other paople close to the congressman. I am writing to note that Leo was a positively charismatic person, and that his daughters told me that his little speech on the evening before his death was perhaps not as relaxed as people who did not know the man would assume. They felt that he showed signs of pressure that one would not notice unless they knew him personally.

I think that it is also important to know that Ryan was married more than twice, and that at least one of his several children was or is a member of a cult. This has played into the after-story of Jonestown a great deal.

Sincerely, Robert P. Helms

  • Robert, thank you for your information. If you want this to get into the article, please let us know on the talk page here locations of some sourced secondary reputable citations, and I and/or others will add the material. But you have already given some tidbits and I will hunt for more sources. Thank you for the info. Yours, Smee 03:25, 14 March 2007 (UTC).

First House member, not congressman, killed?

Great article, but I noticed that it claimed Leo Ryan was the first member of Congress killed in the line of duty. Technically, a senator can sometimes be referred to as a member of Congress. In 1860, sitting U.S. senator Edward Baker was shot at the battle of Ball's Bluff. So I changed it to member of the House of Representatives. see http://blueandgraytrail.com/photo/9 71.198.36.27 06:32, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

  • Hrm, please provide information verifying this from a reputable secondary source, as per policy. Also, I changed the wording to "Congressman". Senators are hardly if ever referred to as "Congressman". Smee 05:04, 2 May 2007 (UTC).

Good article

Archived FA discussion

I archived an old FA nom discussion (failed), to Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Leo Ryan/Archive1. This was waaaay before I came upon this article and expanded it to its current (57) citations. Smee 21:51, 9 May 2007 (UTC).

Info to be added on California legislation

  1. Inglis, Sidney A. (2004). California Develops the Ryan Reforms: 1966-1970. State of California, 1-60.  -- Talks about Ryan Act of 1970 ...
  2. Staff. (September 2006). The California Commission on Teacher Credentialing: Moving Forward. Commission Report 06-03: State of California, 6, 12.  -- Also discusses Ryan Act.
  3. Oh, Why the Ryan Act?
  4. California's Community Colleges and the Ryan Act
  5. Lots more reputable citations available. Search for "Ryan Act", 1970, California, etc. ...

Smee 07:01, 12 May 2007 (UTC).

Critic of Scientology - really?

If it is true that Ryan was an outspoken critic of Scientology, the fact seems to have gone unnoticed by the Scientologists. Freedom magazine, a Scientology publication, issued a glowing report on the congressman, emphasizing his efforts to shine a light on CIA involvement in psychiatric mind control operations like MK Ultra, and calling for further investigation into unresolved factors regarding his death.

The Freedom article also happens to contain the transcript of an interview with the medical examiner at the scene of the Jonetown incident. This transcript provokes some interesting questions which seem to be quite worthy of mention in the Wikipedia article but are at this point omitted.

Due to the obvious value of interviews such as that mentioned as well as of one or more other key personnel, pages at the UCSD website of an investigative project into the Jonestown incidents cite the Freedom magazine article in several places.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but is it not strange that this Wikipedia article is devoid of such treatment?

-Tmst —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tmst8 (talk • contribs) 05:12, 13 May 2007 (UTC).

  • Interesting points, albeit that "Freedom" magazine is a relatively biased source on the matter... I will be adding more on this topic further in the coming days. Smee 05:16, 13 May 2007 (UTC).

Critic of Scientology - really.

Text of letter to Ida Camburn from Congressman Leo J. Ryan, on official United States House of Representatives letterhead.
  • The image of this letter has since been released unde the GNU Free Documentation License by its owner.

Congress of the United states House of Representatives December 10, 1976 Dear Ida Camburn, Thank you for your very detailed letter regarding Scientology. We haven't yet found a way to attack these jackals who feed on children and young adults who are too emotionally weak to stand by themselves when they reach the age of consent. It's too bad there isn't a 20th Century Charles Dickens to write about the terrible destruction of these 20th Century fagins who make themselves rich while they destroy the psyche of so many. At the present time, I can only encourage you to do more of what you have been doing. Sincerely yours Leo J Ryan Member of Congress

  • I hope this helps clarify the Congressman's position on Scientology. Curt Wilhelm VonSavage 21:48, 20 October 2007 (UTC).