Talk:Lenin Peak

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Contents 1 Article name 2 Requested move back to Pik Lenina 2.1 Survey 2.2 Discussion 3 Name selection 4 Dead link 5 Naming controversy 6 Lenin Peak=Avicenna Peak

[edit] Article name

I'm confused too - doesn't the Tajik text of the Decree below (Source: http://www.president.tj/qaror04_297htm.htm) say that

Qullai Lenin becomes - Qullai Abūalī ibni Sino

Qullai Revolyutsiya - Qullai Istiqlol

a third peak of 6910 m height - Qullai Abūabdulloi Rūdakī  ?

It seems that the rename "Pik Lenina" to "Independence Peak" was incorrect. I tried to restore Pik Lenina pending clarification but I am unable to do so. I have requested admin assistance. Viewfinder 17:45, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

I have moved the article back to Lenin Peak until the name is clarified. According to my contact in Moscow, all Russian news about renaming was the same as at [1]. We do not know why the Tajik presidential source [2] is contrary. Maybe the Tajik factions cannot agree, and the Russian media and Tajik president are on opposing sides... Viewfinder 18:00, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Now the Russian text of the presidential decree No. 297 of July 4, 2006 is in under http://www.president.tj/rus/novostee_050706a.htm, also clearly stating that Lenin Peak becomes Avicenna Peak and Revolution Peak becomes Independence Peak. --Holger Finken 06:11, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

---

Decree of July 4, 2006, in Tajik:

ҚАРОРИ ҲУКУМАТИ ҶУМҲУРИИ ТОҶИКИСТОН / ПОСТАНОВЛЕНИЕ ПРАВИТЕЛЬСТВО РЕСПУБЛИКИ ТАДЖИКИСТАН

аз 4 июли соли 2006 шаҳри Душанбе № 297

Дар бораи номивазкунӣ ва номгузории қуллаҳо

"... 1. Номи қуллаи ба номи Ленин, баландиаш 7134,3 м, иваз карда шуда, он қуллаи ба номи Абӯалӣ ибни Сино, номи қуллаи "Револютсия", баландиаш 6940,0 м, иваз карда шуда он қуллаи "Истиқлол", қуллаи беноми баландиаш 6910,0 м, ки 20 км дуртар аз деҳаи Рухчи ноҳияи Рӯшони Вилояти Мухтори Кӯҳистони Бадахшон ҷойгир аст, қуллаи ба номи Абӯабдуллои Рӯдакӣ номгузорӣ карда шаванд."

--Holger Finken 15:08, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

I am confused. What is the status of the name Pik Achiktash, mentioned lower down the article? This was believed by some to be the new name for Pik Lenina. Viewfinder 14:34, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

	It is requested that a photograph or photographs be included in this article to improve its quality. Wikipedians in Tajikistan may be able to help!
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	It is requested that a photograph or photographs be included in this article to improve its quality. Wikipedians in Tajikistan may be able to help!
	The Free Image Search Tool (FIST) may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites.

[edit] Discussion

Add any additional comments

[edit] Name selection

1. This is English wikipedia, and the name is Lenin Peak, not "Pik Lenina".
2. In nacy case, the official Tajik page has precendence over all other sources.

The true problem is Avicenna here. IMO Avicenna Peak would be wrong. It is the modern proper name of the peak, and should not be latinized: Abu Ali ibn Sina Peak or Ibn Sina Peak. Also, I don't understand the reason of hurry in the renaming of the article. THe old title may live for some time until the smoke dissolves. After all, "Lenin Peak" is the preferred English name so far.

And by the way, a quite notable Independence Peak (1,742') is already known in California for quite some time. `'mikka (t) 19:45, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Hi Mikka, thank you for your comments. In fact, English speakers usually prefer to use native names, although there are exceptions. We talk about Mont Blanc, or occasionally the Italian Monte Bianco but never Mount Blanc or White mountain. Still, this is unclear in this case and hopefully the name will be clarified soon. Re the proper name according to the Tajik site, if this is upheld, I suspect that English speakers will find "Abu Ali ibn Sina" a mouthful and difficult to remember, and that they will tend to "anglicize" it to Avicenna, which may become accepted as its correct name in English (like the English "Moscow", not "Moskva"). One way or another, a page "Independence Peak" will likely be upheld, even it refers to the old Pik Revolyutsii, and disambiguation will be necessary. Viewfinder 20:34, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

I've sent an e-mail to Tajik Presindent's press office, although I have little hope for reply, but who knows... `'mikka (t) 21:20, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

According to an e-mail I have just received from the author of the summitpost page, who has just summited Pik Lenin (as he still calls it), there are many names in circulation, and anyway the new Tajik names, whatever they are, will not be used by the Kyrgyz authorities. He tells me that climbers even still use the name Pik Kommunizma for the Tajik (and former USSR) HP Ismail Samani Peak. It is, after all, easier to say and remember. So I think we will be sticking with the name Lenin Peak for some time. Viewfinder 22:47, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dead link

The link to the Tajikistan's President web page does not produce the referenced Presidential decrees -- either in Tajik or in Russian. They must have been removed from the database during one of the updates. Can you find a "live" reference for these important facts about peak names? --Zlerman (talk) 02:56, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

The links http://www.president.tj/qaror04_297htm.htm and http://www.president.tj/rus/novostee_050706a.htm appeared to be OK when I accessed them a moment ago.--Holger Finken (talk) 16:12, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Thank you! I can now see the resolution clearly (in both Taijk and Russian). It was either a false alarm on my part, or they have meanwhile fixed the links. --Zlerman (talk) 06:43, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Naming controversy

According to the Statistical Yearbook of Tajikistan (2006 edition), Avicenna Peak (Qullai Abuali ibni Sino) is 7134 m high and Independence Peak (Qullai Istiklol) is 6974 m high. Comparison with the 1993 yearbook (published in 1995), where the Soviet names are still given, shows that Avicenna Peak (7134 m) is in fact Lenin Peak (7134 m), and that Independence Peak (6974 m) is what used to be called Revolution Peak (Qullai Inkilob, 6974 m). Since the Presidential decrees that deal with renaming are not immediately accessible on the web (see "Dead links" above), I will try to use this information from authoritative Tajik sources in order to update the relevant articles on Tajikistan mountains. --Zlerman (talk) 06:47, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Here is the official notice (http://www.president.tj/qaror04_297htm.htm):

"Номи қуллаи ба номи Ленин, баландиаш 7134,3 м, иваз карда шуда, он қуллаи ба номи Абӯалӣ ибни Сино, номи қуллаи "Револютсия", баландиаш 6940,0 м, иваз карда шуда он қуллаи "Истиқлол", қуллаи беноми баландиаш 6910,0 м, ки 20 км дуртар аз деҳаи Рухчи ноҳияи Рӯшони Вилояти Мухтори Кӯҳистони Бадахшон ҷойгир аст, қуллаи ба номи Абӯабдуллои Рӯдакӣ номгузорӣ карда шаванд. "

Translation: The name of the Lenin peak, 7134.3 m height, is changed to Abuali ibni Sina. The name of "Revolution Peak", 6940 m height, is changed to "Istiqlol". The noname Peak with 6910 m height which is 20 Km far from Rukhj village in Rushon district in Kohistoni Badakhshon, is named after "Abuabdulloh Rodaki".

Alefbe (talk) 16:44, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Lenin Peak=Avicenna Peak

We have agreed after long debates that the name of the article stays as "Lenin Peak" from considerations of accepted usage in English, although the official name of the peak as of July 4, 2006 is Avicenna Peak (or preferably Ibn Sina Peak as some have argued -- see this talk page above). Alefbe on May 15 changed the opening sentence of the article so that we now have an article called "Lenin Peak" that starts with "Avicenna Peak (...), formerly known as Lenin Peak...". This does not look logical to me: I prefer the first sentence to start with the words "Lenin Peak" -- as in the article title -- and introduce Avicenna (or Ibn Sina) later -- as in the earlier version.

Can we have some discussion on this? --Zlerman (talk) 02:07, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm in favor of moving the page to "Avicenna Peak". In naming peaks, montains, cities, ..., the common tradition of encyclopedias (as well as news agencies) is to follow the official name. That's why we use "Chennai" and "Mumbai" for the two Indian cities (while "Madras" and "Bombai" are still more common in English books). About the old discussion, not many users have participated in that discussion (there is only one vote). I'll request the move again. I think we should be consistent with the common tradition of encyclopedias and news agencies. Alefbe (talk) 02:45, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

• I strongly oppose yet another move from Lenin Peak to Avicenna Peak. We have enough confusion in en:wiki and in all the interwikis as it is. Also note the argument raised above in favor of using Ibn Sina Peak instead of Avicenna Peak. But this is not what I have put up for discussion. The question is simply one of style: is it logical to have the first sentence in an article named "Lenin Peak" start with "Avicenna Peak", as Alefbe changed on May 15? Both Avicenna Peak and Ibn Sina Peak should be mentioned in the article (and in fact they are), but what do we put for the first two words in an article named "Lenin Peak"? Lenin Peak or Avicenna Peak? Could we have some opinions on this, not just from Zlerman and Alefbe, but from other editors as well?--Zlerman (talk) 03:06, 16 May 2008 (UTC)