Talk:Lemon

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Reviewed version: December 27, 2006
Lemon is included in the 2007 Wikipedia for Schools, or is a candidate for inclusion in future versions. Please maintain high quality standards, and make an extra effort to include free images, because non-free images cannot be used on the CDs.
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Contents

[edit] Lemon antiquity

first mentioned in the book of Nabathae on agriculture in the third or fourth century This is being widely quoted through google from Wikipedia. Are these Nabataeans? This reference is garbled. Any sources for the history of lemons? Wetman 09:59, 6 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Might even be flat-out wrong. Some sources [1] claim that the lemon *was* known to the ancient Romans, and possibly the Greeks as well. --Delirium 10:06, Dec 6, 2003 (UTC)

I have removed this line. Nabathae is a French form for 'Nabataeans', as used by Gustave Flaubert in his Cathaginian historic novel, Salammbo. There is no Nabataean book on agriculture of any century. Wetman 16:58, 8 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Editing Archery, I noticed there's no entry for lemon trees or the wood. There's not much here either. --blades 23:22, May 15, 2004 (UTC)

An anon appears to have removed interwikis and some other stuff in a fit of undetected vandalism. I think I have re-incorporated everything, but may have missed something that was added later. If so, my apologies. Also, I re-removed the bit about Nabathae, because of the above convo - I didn't see anything in the history that made me think it was proven correct, and there seems to be significant doubts, and nothing here. I don't know if Wetman never actually removed it like he says he did, or if someone re-added it. If it is correct, please supply some verification. Tuf-Kat 03:59, Dec 26, 2004 (UTC)

There's this comment in the text: One unusual use of lemon juice is as the main ingredient of an oil substitute for cars. Was the writer thinking of limonene, perhaps? That might fit the bill better, though there's not much found in the juice, it's mostly in the lemon rind. Malcolm Farmer 09:09, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I've removed above sentence, lemon juice is essentially water and therefore can't be the main part of any fuel.

The current reference to lemons at Pompei probably contradicts the idea that the Arabs first knew of it in the 10th C. It's hardly likely to have reached Rome without going through Arab lands.. Leaving it for someone else to sort out. Imc 21:16, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

Comment. Written descriptions do not mean it was unknown before that time.

[edit] Hybrid?

This article states that lemons are a hybrid but of what is that what the (Citrus x Limon) is in the beginning? If so, perhaps we could place it after we state that it is a hybrid, as an apposition w/ commas.

Yeah, there is very little about the plant itself, this article seems to just be about the fruit. ErikHaugen (talk) 15:31, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
Please follow Wikipedia article on Citron and Etrog and the references linked to there, and you'l have everything clear. You may copy the information and enrich the Lemon article too. CitricAsset (talk) 18:11, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Bad example

Lemon batteries are particularly weak. They can not be used to light light bulbs or run motors unless a large number of lemons a connected in an array. See:[2], [3] and [4]. --Martyman-(talk) 04:02, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Lemon juice alkaline?

The article claims that lemon juice is alkaline. Is this correct? Perhaps what was meant is that it is less acidic than gastric juices? Jorge Stolfi 22:34, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

I've read that lemon juice is an acid, but it alkalines in the body when ingested.

[edit] Growing lemons

Does anyone know where it is possible to grow lemon trees in the US? (Excluding greenhouses) It doesn't say in the article. Evan Robidoux 23:31, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Go to any nursery site and see what zones the particular type of lemon you want to grow is hardy in. Despite the line in the main article about frost they seem to do very well in coastal Northern California where frost is not severe but not uncommon. Bob Palin 15:42, 5 March 2006 (UTC)


I want to know that when you put the juice of lemon into a polysterine cup it doesn't errode it BUT when you add grated peel it errodes???

(sexesaz001@live.co.uk) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.171.129.79 (talk) 12:28, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism

vandalism attributed to 69.153.177.2. I deleted it. 64.253.101.78 21:33, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] can a lemon be used as a battery

I'm pretty sure it is. A battery is simply 2 different types of metal in an acid and lemons contain citric acid. All you have to do is stick two different pieces of metal with wires on into the lemon and you might be able to light up the bulb. --βjweþþ (talk) 21:24, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Correct. Zinc in one and copper in the other works well. StuRat 22:04, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
Additionally, electrolyte has some info. A galvanic cell just needs two dissimilar metals and something to bridge the ions. Acids have extra ions of hydrogen, and Ph is actually a measurement of these hydrogen ions. Bases also have free ions (of -OH) as do salt solutions. The electricity doesn't originate in the lemon. Instead, a lemon allows the two reactions to happen that cause the difference in potential accross the two metals. 216.114.134.44 01:45, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
The lemon_battery article says a lemon can't power a lightbulb. Should the article be changed to reflect this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.237.198.107 (talk) 03:03, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Royal Navy fooled by lemons?!

Does anyone have a cite for this sentence: "The Royal Navy originally thought lemons were overripe limes which they resemble and their sailors became known as limeys, not lemonies."

While perhaps ignorant sailors *in* the Royal Navy might not understand that lemons were a different fruit than limes, it seems unlikely that the Royal Navy itself, which was making a point of using lemons for a public health purpose, wouldn't understand what lemons were. Thesmothete 01:59, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

I find it very hard to believe that they would not recognise the difference. The way I heard it, they were using actual lime juice at one stage (not sure whether lime replaced lemon or vice versa) and that's why lime juice is in so many gin drinks eg [[Gimlet_(cocktail)|gimlet]. I guess it's possible that the lemon was discovered this way but without a reference we should remove it. Nick 03:33, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What does this mean?

Under Description it starts with the sentence: "A lemon tree can grow to 6 an open crown." What does this mean? Something looks messed up here. Tyrel Haveman 00:04, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Parentage

Does anyone know what the parent taxa of C. limon are? This article ought to state them if they are known. SP-KP 00:22, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lemon history

"the first unequivocal description of the lemon, is found in the early tenth-century Arabic treatise on farming by Qustus al-Rumi"

"More recent research has identified lemons in the ruins of Pompeii."

These statements would seem to be contradictory - what is the earliest identification of the lemon? Bob Palin 15:36, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

  • Al-Rumi described them, but the pompeiians had them.216.114.134.44 09:21, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

It's strange then that Pliny the older didn't know or just didn't write about them since he died because of the same eruption that destroied Pompei (as described by Pliny the younger). Plch 00:27, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Pompeii reference added. Fledgeling 14:50, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hybrid?

The lemon, Citrus × limon, is a citrus tree, a hybrid of cultivated origin. In what sense is the lemon a hybrid? Does anyone have a citation supporting this? drJock 20:00, 5 Mar 2006 (GMT)

Well, History says that it derives from the citron and mandarin, and "when and where this first occured is not known". Presumably genetic or chromosomal evidence? EdC 21:22, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Please

Can anybody please create Russian version of this article?--Nixer 00:23, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wrestling

Lemon is a wrestler from Dublin, Ireland. He's not much good but he tries

[edit] "In food" headline

The section titled "In food" should maybe be renamed to "In food preparation" or something similar. Lemons themselves are a food, in a sense, and I think it's a little unclear. -Mkilly 03:59, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Good thinking. I'll go ahead and make the change. — TheKMantalk 13:46, 30 April 2006 (UTC)Bitch ass

[edit] New Image

Lemon
Lemon

This is the image of lemons in Citrus. I think it might be more interesting than the illustration we have (admittedly, I don't like illustrations, so it might be a little biased). Nicholasink 19:30, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, the image is nice (and already included somewhere on the page), however, the illustration does a nice job of depicting the different parts of the plant. — TheKMantalk 19:36, 14 June 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Lemon Peel and D-limonene

I have read that lemon peel can be consumed (I have eaten it and suffered no ill effect) and has a substance in called D-limonene, which is believed to help protect against skin cancer. However, I believe that pile of the lime should never be eaten because it is poisonous. Can any one shed light on this, please?ACEO 19:07, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

The zest of all citrus fruits are often used in cooking, and the pith is bitter but still edible. The article on limonene makes no mention of its effect on cancer, but it is what gives all citrus its strong scent. — TheKMantalk 04:09, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] GA Failed

This article failed the GA nominees due to lack of references. See WP:CITE and WP:FOOT for more info. Tarret 12:52, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks i'll work on that. --Bjwebb (talk) 08:50, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Spanish translation

As I mentioned on talk:Lime (fruit), the Spanish translation of these two words has been unfortunately reversed. I'll fix the link, but this is how it should be:
lime = limón (smaller, green)
lemon = lima (larger, yellow)
Counterintuitive, I agree, but that's the way it is. --Cromwellt|talk|contribs 21:41, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] References in general

Are the external links on this page meant to be references to any of the statements made in this article? Are any of the statements to be taken as factual - needs lots of citation. ex: "The juice, however, is not an effective antibiotic, as is commonly thought." This seems subjective without citation of reference with data to support this statement, &c.

The article failed a GA Nom (see above) for this reason. It seems to have been renominated, although this has not been addressed. There needs to be inline citations. The JPStalk to me 13:40, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
Cultivation, tree characteristics and Pompeii references added- these are in print. Im' the one who originally added that info. Fledgeling 14:36, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
Done! Fledgeling 23:51, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Galery

I have cleaned up the gallery as i think 8 pics is enough and the meyer lemon is a hybrid. If anyone has any objections please say.--Bjwebb (talk) 18:55, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Failed GA again

This article failed good article nomination. This is how the article, as of December 27, 2006 compares against the six good article criteria:

1. Well written?: Pretty good, prose good, some sections (especially food preparation) a bit disorganized. 2. Factually accurate?: Inadequately sourced, needs greater verifiability 3. Broad in coverage?: Insufficient. Should have more material on health and nutrition, at least, as much as is spent on the lemon battery experiment. Not enough coverage of most important topics 4. Neutral point of view?: Acceptable 5. Article stability? Acceptable 6. Images?: Gallery isn't really needed and is repetitious. Best images can be incorporated into article, the rest aren't needed.

When these issues are addressed, the article can be resubmitted for consideration. Thanks for your work so far.

This article still is not up to Good article standards. It is well-enough written in terms of prose style, but is inadequately sourced, the gallery is rather unnecessary (the best photos should be incorporated into the article and the rest tossed), the "In food preparation" section is sort of a mishmash of recipe trivia that also incorporates health remedies and nutritional information--which are interesting sections that should be expanded and given their own heading (along with the nutritional chart). And why is there a whole heading on lemon batteries when there is no heading on the nutritional aspects of the lemon, a topic of far greater significance? Basically, this article is on its way to becoming a good article, it's "B" class at least, but it's not there yet. Sorry to turn you down twice, but this still needs work. Montanabw 20:23, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Strange Example

I removed the sentence, "Lemon juice is also sprinkled on body parts to prevent rashes which would otherwise rapidly darken the area, making it appear less appetizing."

  • "Less appetizing?" Is this a use for lemons appealing to cannibals?
  • I would have changed just that portion, but I don't understand the entry as a whole - lemon juice prevents rashes? What sort of rashes? Can it treat them after they've appeared, or only beforehand? Does it work on slowly-spreading rashes, or only those which "rapidly darken the area"?

I think a few things need to be cleaned up here before it belongs in the article. PaladinWhite 12:03, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lemon Preparation For Market

As a young child, I vividly remember my uncle's citrus orchard which had oranges and lemons. I distinctly remember eating the lemons straight off the tree (Several a day!) and they were sweet and tangy and made a lemonade that was beyond belief, opposed to the lemons that are extraordinarily sour from the market. My mother tells me that this is due to packaging methods involving picking the lemons underripe, shipping, and carbon dioxide accelerated aging somewhere along the way. Any truth to this, and could this be worked into the article? 147.4.194.14 14:29, 15 May 2007 (UTC) A passing visitor

Well, I have a lemon tree in my backyard, and they're still incredibly sour right off the tree. Perhaps your uncle's orchard had a variety of lemons which were less sour than normal. Indeterminate 08:04, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lemon oil as an insecticide

I thought I remembered hearing a local termite company advertising using lemon oil, so I was checking on here, but it turns out that the usual advertisements are for "Orange Oil" treatments. Since lemon and orange oil are both basically just D-limonene, I figured it would be helpful to add this usage as a non-culinary use. However, I forgot that I wasn't logged in when I added this little tidbit. If I'm wrong and you know it, feel free to let me know. Thanks. Indeterminate 08:08, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lemon in Buddhism

I have failed to incorporate that lemons are one of the three holy fruits in Buddhism. It have gained this title because of it's medical properties. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.202.179.68 (talk) 01:32, August 30, 2007 (UTC)

[edit] LEMON - another meaning

We have implemented an open source C++ library, called LEMON. It provides a set of easy-to-use implementation of common data structures and algorithms in the area of optimization and helps implementing new ones. We have decided to create a Wikipedia-page for it. However the lemon Wikipedia-page is already reserved (from acceptable reasons). How could we publish our software in Wikipedia? Maybe a new chapter with Products named Lemon should be opened? We would prefer this solution. Any other idea?

Phegyi81 16:35, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

The standard thing to do is to create a page specifically for your subject (for instance, Lemon (software), and then list your page on the Lemon (disambiguation) page. If you look at the top of this article (and many others like it, eg Gnu), you'll notice the tag "For other uses, see ...". That way, people who come to this page will be able to find your page. Does that make sense? Indeterminate 05:19, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Thank you very much! Phegyi81 16:07, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Site dedicated to lemon

Many articles about lemon & C. - Limmi (also in italian and french)
Jadamatta 14:50, 27 October 2007 (UTC)


[edit] How extracting lemon essential oil

Lemon essential oil is extracted from porous and aromatic fruit's rinds in different ways: Lemon essential oil by hand using a Sponge Extraction Process (now abandoned)

Basically, lemons are halved transversely, then the peel is pressed against a sponge, so that the oil-glands burst open and the sponge absorbs the exuded oil, which is collected in a receiving vessel. Due to market and economy demands, today are preferred mechanical techniques, although the so-extracted juice is of an excellent quality. Through a Cold Press Extraction (by grinding or rasping)

Lemons are placed in devices, called Sfumatrici, which screw and scrape lemon's rind and therefore essence pour out from the oil cells. This technique allows the production of a very good quality essential oil (since thermal treatments do not compromise the terpenic mix), even though the amount of oil extracted is scarce. Thanks to this system is extracted also some water, that will be separate by centrifugation.

Another technique in use is the hydraulic press: lemons are minced and the melted staff, draining from the press, is steam-distilled with low pressure. What left from centrifugation and distillation can be useful to produce citric acid or calcium citrate.

The worthily-quality deterpenic essential oil, with a perfume 15 times finer than a standard essential oil, is obviously more expensive. The oil that has been deterpened, which is to say, that its terpens by distillation (deterpenization) has been removed, can be used to extract vacuum-packed solvent for cosmetic and food.

The greasy liquid extracted - yellowish, citrus scented and with a citrate taste along with a bitter and sour aftertaste - is alcohol soluble and it's made of limonene (or terpene). Among all the other components: Camphene, Pinene, Phellandrene, Terpinenes, Cymene, Monoterpenes, Alkanes, Aldehydes (Citral, Geranial), Coumarine and Furanocoumarine. Technical report

Main components: Limonene (60-69%), Linalil and Geranil Acetates, Terpinene, Sabinene, Pinene, Citral, Linalool, Octanol, Citronellal, Bergamoten, Nonalool, Mycenae, Iron, Calcium, Silicon, Phosphorus, Copper, Manganese, Vitamins (B1, B2, B3, To, C).

Extraction: Cold press extraction Balsamic period: spring Essence profit: 0,3-0,5 Smell intensity: 4 Density: 0,85- 0,86 Uses

Lemon essential oil is widely employed by food, pharmaceutical and cosmetic industries as food, beverage, liquors, drugs and perfumes flavourer.

Curiosity

To collect only a kilo of lemon essential oil, we need about 200 kg of lemons (almost 1500-2000 lemons). That's why this kind of oil is so precious and expensive. The more valuable quality of lemon essences is extracted by unripe fruits (i.e. in Italy the most precious quality essence are made with lemon yielded and used from the end of November to the early begin of March in Ionian area, whereas, in Sicily, until all April month. After this period the quality standard decreases).

What are lemon essential oil?

Lemon essential oil are greasy, volatile and perfumed oils extracted from citrus fruits, flowers and other vegetable with different method: by press, through vegetables' cut, by steam distillation, etc. Did you know...?

Lemon essence has a shorter shelf life than many others vegetable oils, around 9 months. Store it in a dry cool place, out of direct light.

Jadamatta 15:00, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Map

How does one read the map of lemon producers? It suggests to me that lemons are cultivated in New England. | I find that hard to believe I find that hard to believe.--Aaronp808 (talk) 05:35, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree. I live in Pennsylvania, and I can promise you that lemons do not grow here. I think the map should be removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.181.161.250 (talk) 18:11, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Pedant

"Three lemons"? Erm, surely there are two lemons in that photo (one whole and two halves)? Richard W.M. Jones (talk) 22:18, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Haha, nice catch. I fixed it. Indeterminate (talk) 07:49, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Wow

I always learn so much on Wikipedia. Now I know that New York, Pennsylvania, Maryland, and Ohio are the top lemon producing areas in the USA. I would have guessed Florida and California, but they must grow them indoors in the Northeast. Thanks for the informative map. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.248.69.230 (talk) 15:33, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Time for protection?

This article gets vandalized multiple times a day, should we be seeking protection? Murderbike (talk) 21:10, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

In my personal opinion, yes. However, in the last hour i've had to revert vandalism by a registered user. And i only believe we could achive semi-protection. TheProf | Talk 21:27, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
Well, that's better than nothing IMO. I get really bored of seeing it in my watchlist several times a day. Murderbike (talk) 21:34, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
I've now requested protection. Fingers crossed! TheProf | Talk 21:35, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism lasted far too long!

This edit lasted far too long. Three hours anyone looking for real information on Lemons would have seen it! Maybe a pro-longed semi-protection is the next step? TheProf | Talk 22:06, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Unusual varieties?

Watching the PBS Rick Steves' Europe show, he's in Italy. A lemon merchant shows him a bizarre lemon at least 6" long and 3½" thick. What variety is this? The merchant mentioned a name but I didn't catch it. I've never seen or heard of a lemon that size in a US store. --Ragemanchoo (talk) 02:45, 27 April 2008 (UTC)