User talk:Leifern

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[edit] Possible future articles

Olav Hoaas, the Feldmann case (possibly substituting the word "case" with "affair" or something) are topics that seem to fit in with your interests. Punkmorten (talk) 22:12, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

The Feldmann case is definitely on my list, but it requires a bit of research as it ties in with the incident on Vestfoldbanen and the broader issue of legal culpability for crimes against the Jewish population of Norway during the war. (Nothing is ever as simple as it seems). I have other problems with Hoaas - although I think he's a despicable character, he was prosecuted for exercising free (though reprehensible) speech. An NPOV article can't address what he said without also dealing with the issue of whether he had a legal right to say it. Thanks for the pointers, in any event. --Leifern (talk) 22:19, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] DYK nomination

Hi. I've nominated Ruth Maier, an article you worked on, for consideration to appear on the Main Page as part of Wikipedia:Did you know. You can see the hook for the article at Template talk:Did you know#Articles created/expanded on January 20, where you can improve it if you see fit. It's always a pleasure to come across your work, something that seems to be happening more rarely now that you're making fewer New Jersey edits. This is a fascinating article you created. Please review the hooks I suggested for inclusion at DYK and modify as needed. Thanks, Alansohn (talk) 04:59, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Updated DYK query On 24 January 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Ruth Maier, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Gatoclass (talk) 06:01, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

I found the article fascinating too, thanks! Royalbroil 06:06, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
Nice work, added this one also to Portal:Norway. Cirt (talk) 00:21, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] My Rfa

I wish to thank you for being supportive of my effort to regain my adminship. Though it was not successful, your support was still very much appreciated. Let me know if there is anything I can do for you. Thank you!--MONGO 06:28, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] WP:IPCOLL

Leifern, glad to read your thoughtful input today. I suggested ways to re-allocate your various ideas into some existing/new discussion sections, please give a look. (Or I can help you re-arrange it, if you let me know.) Thanks and baruch ha-ba. HG | Talk 16:04, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Nudge, nudge. Hi. I just posted a new discussion section to address the fine point that you raised in your initial post. However, I'd still like to see some of your comments re-allocated. Would you be willing to do it? I don't want all your ideas to be lost inthe forest. Thanks muchly. HG | Talk 20:34, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Notification of Arbitration Enforcement

I am copying this to you personally, as you are a major contributor to the Pallywood article.

Under the discretionary sanctions imposed at Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Palestine-Israel articles, the Pallywood article has been placed on a one-revert rule. Any editor who makes more than one revert (and this revert must be discussed on the talk page) in a 7-day period will be blocked. Please edit cooperatively, and seek consensus and compromise rather than edit-war. ~ Kylu 01:06, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Pallywood

Please review the history of edits before applying "discretionary action." ChrisO made a number of unilateral edits based on his views; I reverted, asking for further discussion; he reverted back to his version and then went running to you to impose the restriction. Given that ChrisO insists on gutting the article to a meaningless version, I am inclined to put it up for deletion, anyway. This is a contentious topic, and the only way to avoid the appearance of taking sides is to investigate a matter before taking admin action. --Leifern (talk) 22:54, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

I'm going to have to admit, I'm unable to grasp the concept of being belligierent to a complete stranger who is trying to keep involved parties abiding by arbitration remedies, especially those that may well result in blocks.
The 1RR restriction is for your own good: Without it, the Israel-Palestine related articles will likely have edit-war flareups and with it, numerous long-duration blocks and possibly longer article bans.
So, I feel a few notes are in order:
  1. I don't know ChrisO from Adam. Really, to my knowledge he and I have never had a single interaction before now, on-wiki or off-wiki. I am not one of his "buddies on irc" and resent the implication. I am in no way interested in your view of the veracity of this statement, also, so feel free to keep your view to yourself in this regard.
  2. The enforcement applies to all editors of the article, including ChrisO. How that's taking his side is beyond me.
  3. The entire point of the enforcement is that it's a contentious topic. That's why it gets enforcement in the first place: If you don't grasp how the article is related to the Palestine-Israel arbcom case, please ask a different uninvolved admin for an explanation.
  4. If you'd like the action reviewed, take it to one of the admin noticeboards, where I'm sure you'll get more attention on the topic than I'm both willing and able to offer.
  5. Happily, I can say I did in fact review the edits before applying the enforcement. Oddly enough, I'm not in the habit of going to random articles and applying random arbcom enforcement rules to pages. Go figure.
  6. I noticed that the most questionable edit is Chris's. Don't you think the 1RR restriction, therefore, actually hinders him more than it hinders you?
  7. Before ever, ever reverting again, read Help:Reverting. I don't mean for "how to revert", but for reviewing the cases where reversion is appropriate. Notice the "DO NOT" section, and where it says "Do not simply revert changes that are made as part of a dispute. Be respectful to other editors, their contributions and their points of view." His edit was not vandalism, it was a dispute between you two on article content. Let me rephrase this: "If you revert a non-vandalism edit (as determined by the blocking admin) on this article, you will be blocked for a minimum of 24 hours."
Now, as far as your deletion suggestion goes, if you can point to someplace in our various deletion guidelines where the deletion is anything other than bad-faith, feel free to nominate the article on articles for deletion, but recall that WP:IDONTLIKEIT is not a good-faith nomination reason.
This reply is posted to both my talkpage and yours, along with your original edit. If you think it incivil, please suggest resolution, but otherwise, I'll thank you to kindly go about productive editing instead.
I hope that clears up the matter. I won't be watching your talkpage for replies. ~Kylu (u|t) 23:33, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Please come back to Pallywod and help us work out some solutions. Palestinian news fraud is a real phenomenon.American Clio (talk) 23:38, 24 March 2008 (UTC)American Clio

[edit] The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXIII (January 2008)

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[edit] Military history WikiProject coordinator elections

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[edit] Khazars

Thanks for the message. Actually, I didn't edit any of the last references (If it looks as if I did, it must have happened inadvertendly). I only just added more refs to reflect the dearth of firm scholarly knowledge a Jewish-Byzantine relations (and in general about Byzantium) which has as a result a quite remarkable variety of opinions. I also deleted the precise quotations from Golden's and Graetz' books to save space and because I thought they were only inserted in response to my query about the sources. I don't mind restoring them. Schlcoh (talk) 17:10, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

  • I left a similar message on the article Talk page: I agree with what you said there and I thought that the version on which we had kind of settled on yesterday satisfied these conditions. However, I see another user has reverted. I won't revert but I expect you or another of the editors who are more familiar with the discussion than Beit Or is, to restore the previous version.

Schlcoh (talk) 18:10, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] doubler

Updated DYK query On 16 February 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Nansenhjelpen, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Victuallers (talk) 13:03, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Updated DYK query On 16 February 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Odd Nansen, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Victuallers (talk) 13:03, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Nice work! Added this WP:DYK to Portal:Norway. Cirt (talk) 00:21, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The DYK item led me here...

...via the pages on Odd Nansen and Nansenhjelpen, an episode in Nazi-era history hitherto unknown to me (and many others, I'd think). I'd like to see these and what you've written on the Shoah in Norway translated for the Hebrew Wikipedia; I'll note this on the most closely relevant page there (i.e. Talk:Jewry of Norway#During the Holocaust). Meanwhile, kudos and thanks for your significant contributions! -- Cheers, Deborahjay (talk) 21:48, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Parks in Oslo

Hi, can you check in on Parks and open spaces in Oslo, I have started translating it to English, alas I am not that good and currently I need to find a translation for 1850-årene. Brgds - Ulflarsen (talk) 13:29, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Hi, thank you for converting my gulesider map links into coordinates. I would like to know how to make them - is there a place to read about it? The Halfdan Kjerulfs plass is a little unprecise, all the others are perfect. Helge Høi (talk) 20:32, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Milhist coordinators election has started

The February 2008 Military history WikiProject coordinator election has begun. We will be selecting nine coordinators to serve for the next six months from a pool of fifteen candidates. Please vote here by February 28! --Eurocopter tigre (talk) 17:26, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Heinrich Fehlis

Hi, I'd appeciate it if you could add some sources to your article (not just for your last edit, "first poison, then shoot himself"). There hardly seems to be anything on the web about Fehlis, so maybe you could cite one or two books / articles. Thanks in advance, keep up the good work, and all the best, <KF> 17:18, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! <KF> 21:16, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Brynjar Aa

Hi I was wondering if you could help save this article from deletion. Its currently up for afd. I;m certain something in Norwegian can be translated to expand it. I think it is notable but google is lacking. Could you consider seeing (this and This ) and try to expand it. Brynjar Å is also another form of the name. Could you help mate? ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ $1,000,000? 13:48, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

You may not like the guy but is it possible you could add something and a reference to make it valid? If he is controversial I think this is interesting. Thanks ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ $1,000,000? 14:24, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] thanks

thanks for your help recently. By the way, i've been looking at your contribs. You're an interesting guy. i'm going to start reading up more here about the post-World War 2 history of Norway. didn't realize all this stuff happened there. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 15:42, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Agreement with Shirahadasha

Hi Leifern. Thanks for your attention. See User talk:Shirahadasha#I have agreed to your proposal where I notify User Shirahadasha (talk · contribs)'s agreeing to Shira's proposal at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/IZAK2#Proposed intermediate verdict 3 (and I still hold by Wikipedia:Requests for comment/IZAK2#Proposed intermediate verdict 2). What are your thoughts on the matter? Thanks. IZAK (talk) 16:42, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Endorsing new proposal

Hi Leifern: Thank you for giving this matter your serious attention. I wanted to let you know that I have now endorsed the latest "Proposed intermediate verdict 3.1" at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/IZAK2#Proposed intermediate verdict 3.1. Thanks, IZAK (talk) 16:49, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Well-poisoning

Care to explain how switching the order of two paragraphs is "well-poisoning?" [1]

I was only trying to make the article conform to the WP:MOS, as well as common sense. I think you need to lay off the revert button, and try to be a little less hostile. <eleland/talkedits> 18:31, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

The introductory section of an article on charges of human rights violation is typically context-setting. In this case, the most important piece of context is that Israel is a liberal democracy in which minorities are protected, just like, say Norway, or Sweden. To state that human rights are a matter of ongoing discussion is a) self-evident, and b) begs the question and therefore constitutes well-poisoning. Correcting bias is not hostile. --Leifern (talk) 19:07, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
You think that's the most important piece of context. Others might think the ongoing occupation is the most important piece of context. Still others might think the most important piece of context is that Israel defines itself by religious identity. Still others might think something different.
It's interesting that you mention Norway or Sweden - I checked Human rights in Europe, and it begins, "The current human rights situation in Europe..." not "European states are multiparty parliamentary democracies..." In fact, I checked the first ten articles "Human rights in...x" and, of those that have any introduction at all, they all start along the lines of "The human rights situation in X is poor..." or "Human rights in Y have been analyzed by Z..." Why would Israel get special treatment?
You've switched from "well-poisoning" to "begging the question," which are two very different concepts. Which is it, and specifically, how would stating that NGO's and governments have looked into human rights in Israel in any way prejudge or bias? It seems to me that your problem is not with well-poisoning, but with failing to well-poison in the manner you favour (ie, by stating as prominently as possible that Israel is a democracy.) <eleland/talkedits> 19:21, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
So interesting that you only quoted the first few words about Europe, because it continues "is believed to be good." Begging the question is a rhetorical fallacy that may (or may not) serve to poison the well. Well-poisoning means to predispose the reader to a particular, unfavorable conclusion about what's coming next; which is precisely what begging the question is as well. "Occupation" does not apply to the situation in Israel, unless you believe that Gaza and the West Bank are part of Israel, which would certainly be to beg the question. Why should Israel get special treatment? Here's a sample of introductory sentences about countries with a government system similar to, or inferior to, Israel's:
  • The United Kingdom has a long and established tradition of avowed respect for its subjects' human rights.
  • Human rights in Finland are protected by extensive domestic safeguards, in addition to the country's active membership in most international human rights treaties.
  • Spain is a democracy with a constitutional monarch.
  • Human rights are comprehensively guaranteed in Switzerland, one of Europe's oldest democracies
You are the one who wants to make Israel a special case, not me. --Leifern (talk) 20:10, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
Leifern, I'm going to copy this onto the article page and continue there. <eleland/talkedits> 06:39, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] DYK

Updated DYK query On March 3, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Kjesäter, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Blnguyen (vote in the photo straw poll) 03:29, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Nice work on this one too, wow, do you have any other WP:DYKs related to Norway that aren't already listed at Portal:Norway/DYK? Cirt (talk) 00:25, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
Oops, hehe, saw your list at the bottom of your userpage, will be adding those to Portal:Norway, thanks for your contributions over the years, these will really be nice additions to the portal! Cirt (talk) 00:31, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXIV (February 2008)

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[edit] List of converts to Judaism

Thanks for participating in the discussion. I've responded to your first point in particular. Divamia (talk) 23:36, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] WTF

Holy cow, Leifern, this is way out of line. You challenged the wording of a sentence which was cited to a source which used the same wording. For your benefit, I added another footnote to the same reference, at exactly the spot where you had challenged it. And then I added, to the reference, the direct quote of the reference using the same wording. And then you remove it saying "Reference does not document the assertion, so I'm taking it out as an example of well-poisoning"! What gives, Leifern!? <eleland/talkedits> 17:31, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Just for the record, I deleted a sentence that perpetrated at least one rhetorical fallacy, namely that of an unsubstantiated generalization, or converse accident. The sentence implied that a term was only used by one group of individuals when the source stated that it was used by that group of individuals on one occassion. --Leifern (talk) 12:14, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
Leifern, perhaps you can also help User:Eleland and me with this reading comprehension problem on the Palestinian people. Regards, Doright (talk) 05:16, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] DYK nomination

  • ...that Knut Rød, a Norwegian police inspector who arranged the deportation of over 500 Jews in 1942 was acquited after the war although no one denied he did it? by Leifern OK? Victuallers (talk) 16:35, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] DYK

Updated DYK query On 14 March 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Knut Rød, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Wizardman 22:25, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Yet again, nice job, has been added to Portal:Norway. Cirt (talk) 22:28, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Disruption warning

Please do not restore the "petition" again to Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard. It is unnecessary, creates needless drama and is fundamentally misleading, as policy is not determined by a vote. Please bear in mind that you are not permitted to disrupt Wikipedia to illustrate a point and you may be blocked if you continue. -- ChrisO (talk) 02:22, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Chris, since you erased another one of my posts when you posted the above, I'll just repost what I posted there again here. (Did I use the word "post" enough times?)
<Moved after deletion from WP:RS noticeboard> Chris, not only may you not block someone you are in a dispute with, you may not threaten to do so. You asked me to calm down. Will you not take your own advice? What you are doing is contrary to both the letter and the spirit of policy. IronDuke 02:37, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
ChrisO's accusations are absurd, and his threats abusive. --Leifern (talk) 20:56, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

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[edit] Template for former municipalities?

Has this template been created? -- Nidator T / C 10:44, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXVI (April 2008)

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[edit] Forced labor in Germany during World War II

Hi. I noticed Forced labor in Germany during World War II has been on hold for awhile at WP:GAN. How's the progress coming along? Should it be failed or passed? I'm trying to help empty the backlog over there, so I was just interested in the article's status. Thanks. Nikki311 01:15, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Article about the white buses

Hi, the article about the White Buses is tagged, could you help in checking the article so the tag could be removed? It was originally written in Norwegian by me, and now it has been translated to several languages, would be good if the english version could be corrected so the tag could be removed. Best regards, Ulflarsen (talk) 10:39, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

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[edit] Muhammad al-Durrah

Hello. I'm currently involved in a dispute about certain wording in the lead of this article with another editor, User:ChrisO. This user claims to be the originator of the phrase "reported to have been killed" with regards to al-Durrah, a phrase he now wants to change to 'was killed'. My own research on the editing history of this page leads me to think that it was actually you who first introduced this phrase into the lead, and that it subsequently remained in the article for more than two years. Perhaps you can comment in the Talk pages of the article and clarify who came up with this phrase, and what is the consensus regarding it. Canadian Monkey (talk) 01:42, 4 June 2008 (UTC)