Talk:Leitmotif
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[edit] Category
A lietmotif is not one of many musical forms, but is used in musical form. Hyacinth 23:43, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Spelling
I am a German native speaker and i wonder, why it is called "leitmotif" with "f" in English. In German we always write "Leitmotiv", the same as we do with other borrowing from Latin ending in "-ivus" ("Infinitiv" [infinitive], "aktiv" [active] etc.).
- Most likely due to influence from the word "motif" (borrowed from French, and also existent in German as "Motiv"). EldKatt (Talk) 19:43, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
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- It also means English speakers pronounce the German terminal "v" correctly! Mswake 09:59, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Idee fixe
I was redirected here from the entry on "idee fixe" - I would like to question this redirection, they're not the same thing, are they? Mswake 09:59, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
- I agree, and have changed the redirect at idée fixe so it points to the disambiguation page obsession instead of leitmotif; I think that's more accurate. There's no point in having the page be more than a redirect, because I suspect it would be nothing more than a dictionary definition (which would violate WP:NOT). However, I note that wiktionary doesn't have a definition for idée fixe yet... —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 06:01, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
- As I understand it, Idée fixe IS musically distinct from leitmotif and not just a way of saying it with a French accent. I think there should at least be a note on the leitmotif page on Idee Fixe, explaining the distinction. 84.13.156.7 20:45, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Definitions
- "leitmotif (Fr), leitmotiv (Ger), leading motive
- A striking melodic fragment or chord representing a dramatic character, a signifigant object, an emotion or an idea...As parts of complex polyphonic textures they can also generate a purely musical drama and function as unifying elements that give shape to large musical structures."
- Ashkenazy, Vladimir (2000). The Billboard Illustrated Encyclopedia of Classical Music, p.350. ISBN 0823076989.
[edit] Removed
- "In Nintendo's Super Mario World the music would have instruments added when a Yoshi was present, and the music would also speed up to symbolize that time was running out for a particular level."
I removed the above as it has nothing to do with Leitmotifs. Hyacinth 22:42, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
You should explain why it has nothing to do with Leitmotifs. With all due respect, I assume that you understand the connection that the original author had in mind. That a particular change in musical style to reflect something happening in the game is not considered a Leitmotif -- why?
- Please sign your posts on talk pages per Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages. Thanks! Hyacinth 20:51, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
- In answer to your question, what is described is not a theme, but simply additional accomaniment and a change in tempo. See the definition in the section directly above. Hyacinth 21:37, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Popular Music section
Pink Floyd does not use leitmotifs. They have recurring melodies and sections that may resemble leitmotifs. The same is true for many of the refrences in this section. the Nine Inch Nails entry describes a "gesture" and not a leitmotif.
- Please sign your posts on talk pages per Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages. Thanks! Hyacinth 06:34, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
- Pink Floyd may use motives in addition to riffs. We need a citation or example, perhaps in The Wall? Hyacinth 07:00, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
- I can't say much about the wall or the final cut, but dark side of the moon DEFINATELY doesn't use leitmotives. Many of the other examples, but i would deffinately question the use of leitmotives in the 2 dream theater albums given. They both have recurring ideas throughout the album, but mainly expressed through the lyrics rather than through recuring motives, a much better example would be their album metropolis, which DOES use leitmotives throughout.
- Perhaps one of the problems here is making clear if leitmotives are purely musical things or if you're extending that to all other kinds of recuring themes (ie in lyrics), in which case that would bring a LOT of stuff under the heading of leitmotiv, i personally think the deffinition should be kept purely musical. --Raichev II 12:33, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
- Whatever it is Nine Inch Nails uses in The Downward Spiral, I'm pretty sure the claim that it recurs in the song "Every Day is Exactly The Same" is wrong. I can't identify the theme anywhere. Dxdt 03:43, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
- To the anonymous person who altered my previous post, I am aware that there is a piano part at the beginning of the song. I dispute the claim that it resembles the music in The Downward Spiral. As far as I can tell, there is no similarity other than the fact that it's a piano and it begins with a descending scale. In that respect, it resembles at least half a dozen other NIN songs. That doesn't make it relevant to the article. Dxdt 20:55, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
- Granted, this discussion is now moot, as it's been removed from the article. Dxdt 21:02, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
- To the anonymous person who altered my previous post, I am aware that there is a piano part at the beginning of the song. I dispute the claim that it resembles the music in The Downward Spiral. As far as I can tell, there is no similarity other than the fact that it's a piano and it begins with a descending scale. In that respect, it resembles at least half a dozen other NIN songs. That doesn't make it relevant to the article. Dxdt 20:55, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
