Talk:Legion of Super-Heroes

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[edit] Volume numbers

A great many minor edits (often made with the semi-bot AWB program) keep switching back and forth between, for example, "(4th series)" and "volume 4" or "vol. 4" or "v4".

This piles confusion on confusion, especially for Legion newcomers. It doesn't help that Chaim Keller's ubiquitous Legion.hlp reference file uses a different numbering for the various editions of Legion of Super-Heroes from that of the Overstreet comic book price guide (and pretty much the rest of Legion fandom).

I would suggest that Legion articles ought to simply stick to the generally accepted usage that this main article is currently employing. That is, the Overstreet guide's usage. For example, with the early-'80s newly-numbered high-gloss-paper series, either "volume 3" or "v3". To use the intermediate "vol. 3" reduces clarity without saving much space.

Greybird 17:31, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Preparing the Wikipedia Legion pages for new readers

I’m purposing an operation to make the Legion pages around here a bit more intuitive… I don’t want to scare anyone away from learning more about the Legion.

I’d like to reorganize the pages for each Legion member and try and combine some of the characters that were essentially based on the same identity. For example, Light Lass, Gossamer and Spark all merged into one page, etc. Then I would like to put a warning box at the top of each character page: This page is about a comic book character who has appareared in several different contunities of the Legion of Super-Heroes. For the current version of the chacter featured in The Legion of Super-Heroes comic book click here. With a link that takes you down to the Threeboot version of the character.

I also think we need to reorganize this page and the others to become more user friendly for new readers to the new book. I’d like to put a small description at the top that the current book is a brand new continuity, for information about it, please click here, with a link that takes you to down to the Threeboot section. I assume there may be a small influx of readers to the WaK books and definitely a lot of research going to be done on the Legion because of the cartoon that’s premiering this month.

camtin 19:10, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Sounds good I would add that all versions of the character should include consistant terminology. Cute names like the Threeboot and the 5 year gap are counterinituitive and only mean something to extablished fans.

Is there any reason not to use the most intuitive of them, "2004 reboot"? Other reboots can then just be called by their names the 1994 reboot and the 1989 reboot.

for new readers I don't think anything else makes sense. Kidkyoto

[edit] Gerry Conway bashing

In regards to this comment: "Ironically, this fell in the middle of what is widely considered to be a low point in the Legion's history. The Conway stories were not very well-received, and often seemed to lack ambition." This is an unsupportable, clearly subjective claim (can it be demonstrated that the stories were widely disliked, and what are the criteria for possessing "ambition" in regards to a 1980 mainstream super-team comic?). Generally speaking, comments like that are only appropriate if the alleged fan discontentment actually amounted to something (the Spider-Man Clone saga, for instance)

[edit] List of Legion of Super-Heroes members

Rather than many small quasi-stubs, could it not make sense to expand List of Legion of Super-Heroes members into a table? This would also make it simpler to track where and where not there are changes between the original and rebooted versions. unkamunka 02:15 15 Dec 2003 (UTC).

Is there any place in the article for a outline of the in-comic history of the Legion? --khaosworks 03:35, 24 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Sure! I'd suggest renaming the History header to Publication history, and adding a new section entitled Team history or Fictional biography, perhaps with sub-sections for the pre-reboot and post-reboot teams. This will mirror the structure I've been using for some other DC articles, such as The Flash, Green Lantern and Hawkman. -mhr 03:42, 27 Apr 2004 (UTC)

[edit] "Reimagined"?

Question - why is the new Mark Waid/Barry Kitson reboot called a "reimagining"? I mean, obviously it can't be called "the reboot", but I can't find a cite for it in the external links. It seems very clunky as a term, unlike reboot itself, post-boot, pre-boot, pre-Crisis, and so on.

For the record, in the fan circles I hang out in the three major continuity eras of LoS are usually called pre-boot, reboot, and newboot (or somewhat more raunchily, preboot!Legion, postboot!Legion, and bitchy!Legion, but nevermind that, heh), but if pos. I'd like to know whether the current header is based on a quote or an official naming that I missed before I go in and change all those pages. - Tinderblast 02:27, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Because that's what Waid called it repeatedly in Wizard and elsewhere. Plus a "newboot" won't be "new" for very long (you can call it bitchy!Legion if you want tho :p) - SoM 02:57, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Thank you, that's all I wanted to know. (And I do, secretly ;). -Tinderblast 04:00, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The phrase I have been hearing used for the current continuity of the Legion is the Threeboot. I like this, and have been using it, since it tacitly acknowledges the Glorith as Time Trapper period as a seperate reboot.

Preboot: Superboy (young Kal-El) and Supergirl (Kara Zor-El) were members.

Crisis on Infinite Earths happens, and (eventually) wipes out Superboy and Supergirl from Legion history. the various ad hoc kludges eventually lead to the MordruVerse for a couple of issues, then a 'running' reboot with Glorith taking the Time Trappers place. Valor (Lar Gand/Mon-El) takes the place of Superboy. Story basically takes up where it left off, with the changes in place.

Zero Hour reboot: total restart, from the begining.

Threeboot: current continuity. Post Infinite Crisis. VikÞor [[User talk:Vik-Thor|Talk]] 04:55, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

How about the 2004 reboot? That's as clear as you can get. Kidkyoto

[edit] Chameleon Boy?

Isn't it Chameleon Kid? At least I remember this being his name when I was reading them in the early 80s.

No, it's always been Chameleon Boy. Or Chameleon in the reboot era. --khaosworks July 7, 2005 10:58 (UTC)
Though there was a Chameleon Kid in the Legion of Super-Rejects. Perhaps that's what the original poster is remembering? --Patrick T. Wynne 8 July 2005 17:54 (UTC)
The LSR guy was Chameleon King, actually, but yeah. That might be it. --khaosworks 22:37, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Other material

What about the fact that the Legion had itself an entire Big 8 newsgroup - the only superhero group to ever do so? And should we list all the Legion-related titles that were published, including Karate Kid, Wanderers, Valor, Cosmic Boy, Legionnaires 3, Science Police, Inferno, Timber Wolf, etc? DS 17:50, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Help with WILDFIRE page

I've just created a Wildfire wiki but I am not sure how to add Wildfire to the "List of Legion Members" page; anyone who knows how to do so is welcome to do so. Also a picture of him would be nice, and if anyone wants to add on reboot history I'd be grateful. Manticore 23:49, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Legion of Substitute...?

I've seen Static (I think, it's been awhile) mention a faux LSH, w mems incl Fanboy ("In Here"). And (with N small irony) Dave's "Legion of Substitute X-Men" (as I call them) in 107-8. I'd mention both... Trekphiler 09:29, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Earth-247

i know that earth-247 was "revealed" to be the DnA Legion's earth. BUT isn't that much like how Earth-Eight "would be the home of Kyle Rayner, Huntress if the multiverse continued to exist."? So did the adventures really take place on Earth-247 or did Earth-247 exist because of the Alex's multiverse split. Exvicious 23:19, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Excellent point! I'm going with the latter. And thank you for clearing up something that had been subconsciously bothering me. I didn't want to have to think of it as another "pocket universe" kinda thing. CovenantD 23:49, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, I think that's a smart way to look at it. The Legion reboots kind of break my heart. --Chris Griswold 13:57, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
Yep. And something else that's been driving me nuts about that - "Earth-8" wasn't part of the merged Earth in Crisis - only 1 (Silver Age DC), 2 (Golden Age DC), 4 (Charlton), S (Marvel Family/Fawcett) and X (Quality) were - all the other Earths were simply obliterated. So Kyle, etc must have been from one of the five merged Earths, they simply couldn't have been from something which retroactively didn't exist. - SoM 01:09, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
Earth-8 is where Kyle, the new Huntress, the new Firestorm, and Breach *would have come from* had it not been destroyed. Because there was no Earth-8, when they were "created", they got pushed into Earth-Post-Crisis. wizardimps 07:41, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
The way I read it, remember that in their last appearance the Legion was lost in the time/space stream. What if when Luthor split the Earths they found their way to that one? Shikari mentioned that she found them, she ended up in New Earth's future while the rest of the team was lost and now that they're in the multiverse she could find them? wizardimps 07:41, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
SoM, the way I interpret it, each of the 5 remaining worlds contained within them the potential for the rest of the multiverse, even if that particlular universe had been destroyed by the Anti-Monitor. Kinda like a ZIP file embedded in the coding of the post-Crisis universe. :) CovenantD 14:04, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
Like DNA. --Chris Griswold 07:37, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Archive Editions

If the various trade paperbacks are being listed, shouldn't the DC Archive editions be listed? I've never been able to afford them, but it is my understanding that they reprint all the stories the Legion played major parts in, up through the mid70s. (DC's website lists Volume 12 as including Superboy & the LSH #s 213-223 and Karate Kid#1. The earlier volumes don't list the issues included...) VikÞor [[User talk:Vik-Thor|Talk]] 05:20, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

I'd be content if those came out entirely. What you see now listed as trade paperbacks is actually a revamp of a table somebody inserted much further up and called a bibliography. I didn't feel comfortable just removing it, so I corrected the placement, formatting and heading. CovenantD 13:44, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Amethyst a member of the Legion since when?

I just removed AMethyst as a member of the Legion 5 Year Gap. She was listed for some odd reason. I know Amethyst first appeared in the Legion of Super-Heroes as an additional story, but she never actually joined the team, so why was she listed along with Wildfire as part of the 5 Year Gap? CureWhite

It had something to do with The White Witch. Wasn't she posessed by the Amethyst Lord of Order for a time? Though I agree with you removing the phrasing. "Return of...Amethyst" would mean she had been a member before, which she never was. Better placement would be in the White Witch's article by someone with access to the issues in question. --VikÞor [[User talk:Vik-Thor|Talk]] 14:32, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
Also, for members who are no longer in continuity, like White Witch, Tellus, Gates, etc. would it be better to put Unknown in the Superherobox, or would No Longer in Continuity be acceptable? I put No Longer in Continuity when I added some stuff to Tellus, but thought would check here... ---VikÞor [[User talk:Vik-Thor|Talk]]

[edit] Superman: The Man Of Steel Volume 4

I added this to the trade paperback section recently, since it includes The Death Of Superboy. That being the story that explains Clark Kent's/Superboy's existance in LOSH despite being out of existance Post Crisis.

[edit] Original Continuity

Isn't it more accurate to say that the original continuity ended with v4 issue 3? The continuity for the rest of the Bierbaum run is fundamentally different from what came before.Rhindle The Red 16:23, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Superboring

I added this:

"(and an initial rejection because his powers were boring),"

based on Daniels' DC Comics. Trekphiler 10:34, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Too bad it's not accurate; the initial rejection was a hoax, with the reason put forth that his powers were useless considering that of the others. Also, whatever "Daniels' DC Comics" is, a link would be more helpful than a casual mention of the source. --Joe Sewell 16:36, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
I think he's talking about one of Les Daniels' coffee-table books. In any case, as you say, Daniels has it wrong, as any reading of Adventure Comics #247 will show. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 02:06, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Animated Series

Have there been any interviews with the shows creators on why they chose these partciular characters for the show? As an X-Man fan, their powers seem to be more than a little familiar to me. --68.103.154.140 06:13, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

There's a lot more about the TV show on the show's page here, with some references on the characters. However, while the show's creators have discussed the characters, they haven't specifically mentioned why these as opposed to others. They were all active during the Silver Age (1960s).
As an X-Men fan, though, you should note that the Legionnaires predate the X-Men with similar powers. Lightning Lad and Saturn Girl both first appeared in 1958, Phantom Girl, Brainiac 5, Bouncing Boy, and Triplicate Girl in 1961, and Timber Wolf in 1964. X-Men #1 came out in 1963. The Shi'Ar Imperial Guard, by the way, was created to be a deliberate copy of the Legion. -- Wizardimps 00:16, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Please fix this

This article says that Supergirl was sent to Kandor where she met "descendants of the surviving Kryptonians". However, the Kandor article says that Kandor, even post-Birthright, isn't populated by Kryptonians. Ken Arromdee 03:52, 16 January 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Chris Batista?

I don't think the artist credit for the current team image is correct. Isn't that Barry Kitson's art? Puffy Treat 00:58, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

It is. I changed it. Cite from Kitson's website: http://barrykitson.pentnet.com/sectionpage.phtml?page=legion Hope no one's feathers were ruffled.69.121.181.87 22:19, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Lightning Storm?

On the note of the person above, what with the current JLA/JSA crossover apparently featuring the return of some pre-reboot characters, should the crossover at least get a mention on the official Legion page? TehMCP 15:18, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

I think there should definitely be some mentioning since the Legion's appearance has some major bearing on continuity. CasimirAngel 23:44, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Five Years Later... POV

The "Five Years Later" section seems rather biased to me. I'm at a loss to sort it out, however. Perhaps someone with a more delicate touch can get rid of the POV? Thanks! --GentlemanGhost 12:25, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:1413 400x600.jpg

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[edit] Pic choices

Wow. This article is heavily biased with images of recent incarnations. Two of the post-ZH teens, two from the current version, one post-Infinite Crisis of the classic version and one cartoon version. Not a single image of the original team that's actually from that era. The Legion didn't suddenly spring into being in 1994, ya know.

[edit] The real future?

Is the Legion timeline the "real" future of the DC Universe, or just another alternate timeline? Bluecatcinema 12:08, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Hard to say. The old Legion's universe (pre-crisis) was an alternate timeline, and so was the Post-Zero Hour incarnation too. I believe that the current LSH timeline could be the main future of DC Universe, but I'm not 100% certain. The Clever Guy (Talk • Contribs) 14:42, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Threeboot

Although the term "Threeboot" is no longer a part of this article, it is used in several ancillary articles. [1] It might be worthwhile to change those articles so that either the term is explained, it links to the appropriate section of this article, or it is replaced with a term more comprehensible to the uninitiated. --GentlemanGhost 23:16, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Movie

I can find nothing to support the uncited claim that the Karate Kid movies licensed the character name. Unless a reliable source can be found, I recommend deleting the statement. 68.146.8.46 00:32, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

For one thing, there's a note in the IMDB for the movie in the "trivia" section [2] that says "The Karate Kid was the name of a character in DC Comic's "Legion Of Superheroes" who was a member of the Legion. DC Comics, which owned the name, gave special permission for the title to be used. There's a thank you to DC Comics for allowing the use of the name at the end of the credits." It's also mentioned in the trivia section of The Karate Kid movie entry here.
I hope this is enough. -- Wizardimps 12:33, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
Apparently it wasn't. What kind of reliable source would satisfy you short of a screenshot of the credits from the movie? -- Wizardimps 05:22, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Original" Legion vs. Lightning Saga

86.156.16.* - This is getting tedious. It's not the original pre-Crisis Legion for reasons cited (and subsequently removed). We don't yet know how and where this Legion fits into continuity, so for now it's the "Lightning Saga" Legion. Why do you keep insisting on replacing this with "Original" Legion? We've got "Legion of Three Worlds" coming up this fall, why not wait until we find out what's really going on before proclaiming this is the real, original one?

And as for the "Other Media" section being fleshed out - what do you consider fleshed out, a listing of every Legion-related action figure, a listing of every trading card from every series, every Vs. System card? I can do that, but it would make this entry twice as long, and besides this is not the place for a checklist. -- Wizardimps 05:22, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Animated continuities

I have never read anything that clearly said the new show is separate from the previous ones. I know there have been several references to things from the previous series, including the spider robots from the "World's Finest" episodes of Superman. The nature of time travel waves away any issues concerning the Legion's first meeting with Superman. Can anyone clarify this situation? --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 05:37, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

The closest thing I could find was this interview[3] with series producer James Tucker last summer before the series premiered.
NRAMA: We've seen some of the Legion in both Bruce Timm's Adventures of Superman and, obviously, the last season of JLU. So, will the Saturn Girl, Cosmic Boy, Chameleon, Bouncing Boy and Brainiac 5 be consistent with the characters we saw in those episodes?
JT: The characters in this version of Legion will be less experienced than those seen before now in the DCAU. Whether these characters will evolve into those characters is yet to be determined. I'll leave that to the message boards and fan fic writers.
They haven't explicitly said that they are separate, but from the animation style and character designs (plus things like Brainiac 5 is a robot), it's pretty heavily implied. Any design element that looks the same is probably an Easter Egg for the fans who watched the old series. -- Wizardimps 05:10, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, but we can't rely on anything that we need to use the words "imply" or "probably" to discuss. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 05:12, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Which is v4?

The article claims that the version where Giffen was plotting and came up with SW6 as well as the Post-Zero Hour versions are both v4; which is it? Darquis 05:34, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Both appeared in Legion of Super-Heroes Volume 4.
To quote the page:
* The Legion of Super-Heroes volume 4, #1–61, Annual #1–5
After the Zero Hour reboot:
* The Legion of Super-Heroes volume 4, #0, 62–125, Annual #6–7
Duggy 1138 09:33, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Volume number clarification

For the uninitiated, here is an explanation of the various volume numbers of "Legion of Super-Heroes":

Vol. 1 - reprints

Vol. 2 - formerly "Superboy", starts with issue 259, later becomes "Tales of the Legion of Super-Heroes"

Vol. 3 - includes the Legion of Super-Villains war, the death of Superboy, the "last" Time Trapper story, etc. And of course, "Crisis on Infinte Earths". Ends with the Magic Wars.

Vol. 4 - "Five Years Later", the Glorithverse reboot, the SW6 Legionnaires (which get their own book), "Zero Hour" and the first major reboot. Ends with the Blight.

-- "Legion Lost" and "Legion Worlds" miniseries

-- "The Legion" ongoing series. Post-Zero Hour continuity ends with the "Teen Titans/Legion Special"

Vol. 5 - "Threeboot": The Legion is an intergalactic movement, with a core group of superpowered members based on Earth. After "Infinte Crisis", Supergirl arrives from the 21st century and joins.

--- Concurrently with Vol. 5, The Lightning Saga in JLA and JSA and the Superman and the Legion story arc in "Action Comics" demonstrate the appearance of a second Legion (apparently from another Earth) which appears to share the history of the pre-Crisis Legion. Superman was a member as a teenager (but was not called "Superboy").

ABCxyz (talk) 02:53, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Adv300cover.jpg

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BetacommandBot (talk) 19:14, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Adv346cover.jpg

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