Talk:Legazpi City
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Does this ABC station stand for the American Broadcasting Company?? Jaberwocky6669 00:02, Mar 30, 2005 (UTC)
- No, there's also a Philippine television station named ABC. TheCoffee 05:34, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)
What does it stand for? Jaberwocky6669 05:38, Apr 1, 2005 (UTC)
- Hmm...I couldn't find out. It may just not stand for anything at all, aside from being the first 3 letters of the alphabet. Try Googling for "ABC 5" Philippines TheCoffee 18:43, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Ahh, it stands for Associated Broadcasting Company. I only needed to know in order to clear the page from a disambiguation page. Thank you tremendously! Jaberwocky6669 02:51, Apr 5, 2005 (UTC)
There is another Legazpi to the Northwest near Lingayen Gulf. Encarta's maps show that city as Legazpi and this one as Legaspi. I'm reading my uncle's memoir of his experience in WWII and he states that the Japanese landed at Legaspi, Lingayen and Desmortes. Since the other Legazpi is inland, I figure the landing must have been at this one.
May I say ascribing to Legazpi as "de facto capital of the Bicol Region" is rather a difficult & baseless proposition, a preposterous claim considering the presence of a more preeminent & progressive Bicolano city in Naga (per international and national recognition awards received, no. of bank offices and size of total deposits per central bank statistics, infrastructure, etc.) From my very frequent travels to, readings, and personal knowledge of the two places, it would certainly appear that Legazpi is anything but the "de facto capital".--Bicololdtimer 07:06, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for your input Bicololdtimer. However, I must point out that Legazpi is effectively the capital of the Bicol Region and it is not "baseless" to say so because all the Region's government offices are located there. Furthermore, nearly all the Region's government business is conducted in the city. The last time I checked they haven't been magically teleported to Pili, Camarines Sur, much less Naga City, much as I admire these two places. No matter how "progressive" and "preeminent" you may think Naga is, it is still not the Region's capital. On the other hand, it IS baseless to claim that Naga City is "undeniably the most progressive city" in the Region without any references or sources to back up this claim. It also violates Wikipedia's NPOV policy as this sort of language is far from neutral. I would also like to point out, with all due respect, that your personal observations based on your travels are NOT sufficient indicators of a city's "progressiveness". --87.194.3.169 21:24, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
With all due respect to bicololdtimer, he is a practical tourist, so-to-speak. As an Irish-American oldtimer in the Bicol, too, travelling and doing business all the time, too, I feel bicololdtimer says what he sees, which is practical. But I tend to believe him. Naga is indeed most progressive of any place in Bicol and that includes Legazpi where I've resided since past 2 decades. I think Wikipedia does not constrain contributions that simply inform and are verifiable. Why don't you come over to see for yourself? If I say and write here that Mayon volcano is a beauty to behold because of its perfect cone, you must be joking if you require me to present "references and sources to back up this claim". People may not have time for that other than as what bicololdtimer says, he reads, hears, sees from his travels, etc..--Frank maloy 06:54, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
Frank Maloy, aka as the "Irish-American oldtimer" (in other words, not the same person as Bicololdtimer, ahem...), I'm afraid the analogy with Mayon Volcano simply does not work. Personal descriptions of Mayon are inherently subjective and are of course not objectively verifiable. However, the same cannot be said for a city's claims of "progressiveness" if this is understood in an economic or social sense for which data do exist and should be called on to support such claims. "Why don't you come over and see for yourself" - it would be insane if we all did this for each Wikipedia article - I don't think it's a very "practical" methodology, do you? --87.194.3.169 15:27, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
Thank you. We're all refreshed and challenged by your unique albeit paranoiac point of view. You must be told the cityhood of Legazpi always involved our dear sweet little town of Daraga. Largest city, baloney! Even the writer's claim of Legazpi as so-called top tourist destination happened because of Mayon volcano, which for your education is better visited in Daraga. You want references and sources, then read enough. Ms. Ravanilla herself Regional DOT director has time and again reported in various fora that our neighbors Camarines Sur and Naga City have surpassed us and are the top tourist destinations since 2006. Why don't you call her up to tell her she lies? So let’s cut the BS. Wake up! Legazpi can’t go it alone unlike the other city. Reming told it all = it showed our weakness while showing the other's strength in time of crisis. So where is our so-called progress? I don't see it in Legazpi, do you? Your so-called political center came into being helped by a presidential fiat, and not because Legazpi by itself was a meritorious location. Were it not for the presidential desire to assure Mayon Imperial Hotel's viability, then it would not have occured at all. If you don't know that or have the impudence to refute it, then you're hopeless. As it is, we could have been saved from the disaster, inconvenience, and embarrassment of hosting so many gov't. offices under eternal threat of Mayon, which, mind you again, is not in Legazpi.--Metro Daraga 13:53, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
I will not even dignify the above puerile outburst with any response, it speaks for itself.
I will however, engage with constructive comments from those who do not have multiple personalities. --87.194.3.169 21:36, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
What a classic flight! LOL! I think I’ll agree with you my talk really speaks for itself as it is full of facts about Legazpi you can’t even refute. LOL! But what is it really with people suddenly faced with incontrovertible facts taking to flight? Simple! Answer comes from a well-known author: “It is the mark of a weak mind that puts to flight from all substantive discussions. It’s owner is at once ludicrous and uninspiring, childish and of the race of small minds.” Finally, please never attempt to dignify. With the kind of thinking you have exhibited, you are simply not up to it. But let me promise you to be nicer if you'll try being smart. LOL! (By the way, am female (metro daraga), so your use of the word “puerile” coming from the Latin root word “puer” meaning “boy” is inappropriate. Be careful, you might meet truly dignified people who think deep.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Metro Daraga (talk • contribs) 13:49, August 29, 2007 (UTC)
sorry, forgot to sign my talk, previous was mine.--Metro Daraga 13:52, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
Methinks someone is trying very hard to attract my attention...I thought this was obvious, but apparently it needs to be reiterated: this page is for discussions relevant to Legazpi City only. It is NOT meant to be a personal diary or blog of someone's psychological or emotional issues. I'm sorry but I cannot get involved in this. Please look elsewhere for a babysitter, thank you. --87.194.3.169 23:27, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
After assiduously reviewing the article, I am constrained to tag it as unreferenced. A lot of the information given are simply inaccurate. For one, alluding to Legazpi as de facto capital of Bicol is simply not right, even outrageous. The city may be the location of several government regional offices, but that does not make it capital of the Bicol region which does not exist strictly as a political entity. These regional offices have no administrative supervision over the individual local government units (LGU’s) in the region. There is no regional government/ governor that would locate a capital effectively defining a seat or center of political power fixed by law. In this light, the description “political center” may still be acceptable, but “capital” would really be inaccurate. Secondly, Legazpi as “academic” center is a hilarious, trying-hard description. (Perhaps because the admittedly more progressive Bicol city, Naga, with 6 universities has already owned to the tag “educational center of Bicol” so our editor had to be creative and mustered “academic”. Funny.) The 3 universities cited are in fact only 2 since Divine Word College is not even a university. Bicol University came into being with 2 of its original colleges located in my own hometown of Daraga. With only 2 universities, how can the city be the regional “academic” center? Finally, declaring the number 80 as the number of schools in the city is really so simple and easy. Perhaps the tag “elementary and secondary school center of Bicol” would be more appropriate in that case if we can prove it. Another erroneous attribution is Legazpi’s being THE top tourist destination in Bicol. Latest official Dept. of Tourism (DOT) statistics show Camarines Sur/ Naga City with Camarines Sur Watersports Complex and various conventions & meets have surpassed Legazpi and/or Albay by a mile in tourist arrivals since last year 2006. Please refer to following site http://www.wowphilippines.com.ph/dot/statistics.asp for this. Our provincial and city leaders better wake up! This is a wake-up call, so may I invite editors to come forward and join hands in giving only correct information on this fair city to give justice to what to me is certainly Bicol’s cleanest, if not most beautiful city. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Metro Daraga (talk • contribs) 06:26, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
Metro Daraga, I'm afraid your reading comprehension is very poor, despite your claim of having read it "assiduously." I might give you 2 out of 10 if I'm feeling very generous. 1)The qualifier de facto means "actual" irrespective of whether or not it is legally sanctioned as such. At no point does the article claim that it is the de jure capital, which is how you misread it. 2) The fact that a university has other campuses located in neighboring towns/cities does not take away the fact that the main campus is still in the same location. If we apply your logic to UP, it will no longer count as one of Metro Manila's universities since it has campuses all over the country! This is clearly illogical. 3) Please give us the pleasure of naming those SIX UNIVERSITIES (!) of your beloved Naga City - if they exist. 4) Ironically, the statistics you quote actually disprove your claim - the figures for Naga include the rest of Camarines Sur while the figures for Legazpi are for that city only. This is a flagrant case of statistical manipulation. Furthermore, the gross visitor figures for Naga were based mostly on religious pilgrims who come to this city in September from other parts of Bicol (including Legazpi) and, in most conventional measures, would not be counted as "tourists". 5) Your reference to Naga as "the cleanest, most beautiful city" is clearly your personal opinion and you provide no sources for these yourself. 6) Please focus your energies on improving the Naga City article, rather than vandalizing this one. --87.194.3.169 23:13, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
To the previous poster, your slip is showing for all the worldwide web to see. Your reading comprehension is the one that is very poor. Needless to say, our contributions should be based on facts, not conjectures. 1) it is a fact there is no regional goverment in Bicol, so how can there be any regional capital? Whether it is de facto or de jure is beside my point that there can be no regional capital. Can you name a kingdom without a king? So who is this regional governor of Bicol who holds office in your supposedly regional capital of Legazpi? 2) you have not denied 2 of Bicol University's campuses were derived from Daraga. You have not denied Legazpi has only 2 universities, not 3. So how can Legazpi be the regional “academic” center?! Naga has indeed 6 universities located in the city. If you don’t know that, then your research is obviously very inferior especially since even the worldwide web says so and all the websites of the universities concerned say so, too. Why should I give you the pleasure of naming those 6 universities?! Find out for yourself so you’ll learn. Just a hint: even with three (3), Naga still has more, ha-ha! A further play: 2 begin with A, 2 begin with U, and 2 have notable P’s in their names. 3) Stating the fact that Naga is more progressive than Legazpi does not mean Naga is beloved to me. For your information, I am from Daraga, almost a Legazpeño, too. But I am not a wide-awake dreamer who dreams of Legazpi as regional capital and the top tourist destination when the fact is, it is not. WIKIPEDIA is all about facts, not de facto’s. 4) Those tourist statistics are not mine, they are the DOT’s which is the authority in this regard. You cannot deny the fact that Camarines Sur/ Naga surpassed Albay/ Legazpi in tourist arrivals since 2006, as I’ve said. The DOT regional director who is even based in Legazpi City has said it so many times, so please vent your ire on her for telling the sad, awful truth. 5) Finally, I never said Naga is “the cleanest, most beautiful city" of Bicol, DID I? I said it was Legazpi so I was even inviting editors to come forward and join hands in giving only correct information on Legazpi, “this fair city to give justice to what to me is certainly Bicol’s cleanest, if not most beautiful city”. Read very well and open your mind. WIKIPEDIA IS ALL ABOUT FACTS, so please stop spreading conjectures. Otherwise you would be guilty yourself of vandalism for spreading half-truths and misinformation which Wikipedia readers don’t deserve for they deserve only facts and the whole truth. Stop dreaming.--Metro Daraga 07:48, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
Metro Daraga/BicolOldtimer or whatever you want to call yourself today...I have said this many times before, but obviously everything must be repeated to you several times for you to understand it. So I will repeat: I am not a babysitter. Please look elsewhere for this service. "Our contributions should be based on facts"....I nearly fell off my chair when I read this - so please tell us all - what are the FACTS that support your claim that Naga now has SIX universities? You also seem incapable of understanding this other FACT: DOT's figures lumps TOGETHER Naga City and the ENTIRE province of Camarines Sur but Legazpi's figures are for that city ALONE. Therefore, we cannot make an accurate comparison using these figures. Is that clear enough for you? As for the rest of your post, frankly I have no time to read such incoherent garbage. Your grammatical errors are a great advertisement for Naga as the educational capital of the region! I have also said that this page is about Legazpi and issues relevant to this city, not Naga, or any other city. Unfortunately, you also have a hard time understanding this. "I am a wide-awake dreamer who dreams"....OK I'm glad you admitted that...thank you for sharing your hallucinations with us, but as you yourself have said, Wikipedia articles must be based on facts, and not the result of hallucinations/trances. I totally agree with you that Wikipedia readers deserve better than this. --87.194.3.169 13:03, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
To the previous poster, I think you are resorting to cheap crap, and so your slip is all the more glaring for all the worldwide web to see, ha-ha! In the 1st place, WIKIPEDIA is not a grammar class so what grammatical errors are you talking about?! Secondly, your halucination that people who don't share the same views as yours as being the same persons is really cheap. Grow up, man, this world deserves something better. Your innuendoes about DOT's problem should be better addressed towards that entity. I only said Camarines Sur/ Naga City surpassed Albay/ Legazpi in tourist arrivals and that's a fact per DOT statistics. So can you deny that?! "Is that clear enough for you?" As regards the rest, I've said do your research better before arguing with me because obviously your outburst only shows better inferiority that tries to veil the inaccuracies of your contributions. I should not even be discussing Naga here, but you continue to glorify that place with senseless arguments against facts I put forth which you cannot disprove. Sorry, but I will have to continue to tag until you learn to mature and accept facts deserving of Wikipedia, and not bloat it with your unproven conjectures. --Metro Daraga 14:28, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
MetroDaraga...mind your language please! It is not my fault that your imaginary SIX UNIVERSITIES of Naga failed to materialize. I think your posts have made it perfectly clear that is YOU who is a child that needs to grow up and that the adjective "cheap" perfectly describes your use of the English language. That incoherent paragraph could not have been written by someone with a mental age of more than 6. I'm afraid there's nothing we can do for people who are in the throes of hallucination. I urge you to seek urgent medical attention. Since you admire Legazpi so much I recommend Aquinas University Hospital and Ago General Hospital - both have excellent facilities, but I won't say "the best in region" just in case you have another seizure. --87.194.3.169 20:01, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
To the previous poster, speak for yourself, it is you who should be careful and decent about your dirty language. To push a point, there is certainly no need to resort to cheap name-calling or baseless sarcastic remarks which indeed have no place in Wikipedia. Since the beginning you miserably failed to debunk all my points. I still stand by the FACT that the other admittedly more progressive Bicol city has six (6) universities doing business in it. If at this point you still have not the slightest idea about them, then again the challenge to improve on your research skills so you can deserve to edit Wikipedia.--Metro Daraga 14:33, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
I have read the continuous discussions above between Metro Daraga and 87.194.3.169. Accordingly I am constrained by force of reason and training as a lawyer to contribute my own views finally agreeing with Metro Daraga. We Legazpi people deserve to know better about our beloved city, so we demand accurate details. This thing about “de facto regional capital” is simply inaccurate, a misleading play of words. The ascription “regional service center” which is proclaimed by Legazpi City’s official website would be accurate. To me there is nothing wrong with Metro Daraga’s pushing his/ her argument. He/ she has as much right as anybody else to do so. His/ her argument about DOT statistics and the 6 universities are unfortunately correct. The DOT statistics state that Camarines Sur/ Naga City have surpassed Albay/ Legazpi City since 2006. Following Metro Daraga's playful hints, I easily found out about the 6 universities doing business in the other city because I personally read their billboards which are all over the place, and browsed locations in their own individual websites. In short, I did my own homework and researched. Therefore labeling a person as a vandal without saying why and without exposing why he/ she is wrong is to me the height of presumption, thus grossly unfair. In which case his/ her argument/s should stand unless proven false. Particularly I find the language of 87.194.3.169 as uncalled for. By resorting to name-calling and wild speculation as to Metro Daraga’s person, arbitrarily lumping him/ her with other previous editors who have valid contributions just because these editors don’t share the same views as yours, to me disappointingly brings Wikipedia to a really low level undeserved. If you don’t agree with Metro Daraga, and other editors, then say why and proceed to edit false claims by putting forth your own evidence (you have been repeatedly challenged!), but never besmirch the reputations of persons of editors whom you hardly know because it shows your own low level which would compromise the quality of Wikipedia. Therefore I agree to tag the article as unreferenced.--The Last Honorable Boy Scout 13:33, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
To "The Last Honorable Boy Scout" - unfortunately, it is extremely obvious that you are most likely the same person as Metro Daraga/Bicololdtimer/IsaragLass etc....etc....It is very obvious from the way you write, i.e, the same expressions, the same faulty syntax and grammar, the same recourse to personal opinions - "because I personally read" - which are then presented as "facts!" Your posts were initially entertaining. This is now getting tedious. Please do grow up. --87.194.3.169 16:27, 18 September 2007 (UTC) I don't need to point out that the insults/name calling started with MetroDaraga aka Bicololdtimer aka The Last Honorable Boy Scout. I was called "paranoiac" (paranoid in English) very early on for daring to disagree with him/her. --87.194.3.169 16:40, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
Except for his/ her last statement which mentions a state of paranoia, for which I should wholeheartedly agree with Metro Daraga, the previous post does not have any single ounce of truth, no substantive element nor any factual discussion about Legazpi City, which is supposed to be the main subject. What the previous poster engaged in, unfortunately, are all personal attacks upon the persons of previous editors who submitted substantive contributions that somehow tried to improve on the article by questioning inaccurate claims therein. I would encourage Wikipedia to ban the previous poster as a nuisance and threat to its desire for accurate information.--The Last Honorable Boy Scout 03:07, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
To summarize, MetroDaraga/BicolOldtimer/Last Whatever Boy Scout/IsarogLass (check the Naga City discussion)has a BIG problem with this basic fact: Legazpi, not Naga, is the largest city in the Bicol Region:
Legazpi population= 157,000 (2000Census)
Naga population= 137,000 (2000Census)
Legazpi land area= 204.20 km²
Naga land area= 84.48 km²
Legazpi pop growth rate = 2.68%
Naga pop growth rate= 1.7%
Everything else, every other incoherent post that this person has written stems from the fact that he/she cannot accept this basic, unavoidable FACT. Are we going to be told that the Census figures are wrong and that the aforementioned poster's personal intuition is correct? This editor is determined to turn this into a City versus City argument. The discussion was originally and should still be about Legazpi City. However, Naga keeps coming up and we all know why! This person is here to stir up conflict and it should be perfectly clear who started the personal attacks and who should be banned. --87.194.3.169 14:10, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
Nobody is questioning those figures which any elementary student knows from social studies, nor the fact that Legazpi is most populous and has a bigger area. Do not divert attention and digress from the primary discussion here, which is your persistent incorrect use of the following that is drawing a lot of discussions because of their glaring inaccuracy: 1. Regional Capital (Inaccurate! No regional government fixed by law to warrant any so-called regional capital) 2. academic center of the region with 3 universities (Inaccurate! Legazpi has actually only 2 universities, so how can it be called regional academic [sic] center when it has fewer such institutions?) 3. Top tourist destination (Inaccurate! Since 2006 per official DOT figures, Camarines Sur/ Naga City are the TOP tourist destinations in the Bicol region!) We have no questions about the Naga City article nor any interest therein, so we cannot dignify your invitation to check anything there. This is obviously the Legazpi City article where our eternal interest is reposed, so stick to it. Again let me repeat my call on Wikipedia to ban the previous poster (87.194.3.169) for being a nuisance, always illogical and out-of-order; a threat to Wikipedia’s desire for accurate information; and for repeatedly maligning well-intentioned editors.--The Last Honorable Boy Scout 04:34, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Here are the answers to the above posters' objections (I have answered these before but as I've said everything must be repeated for MD):
1) Yes, that's why the qualifier "de facto" was added. And it does not mean that Naga is the regional center. Check out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regions_of_the_Philippines Are you going to tell us that that article is wrong and your intuition is correct? 2) There are 3 tertiary institutions in Legazpi: Aquinas University, Divine Word College and Bicol University. Divine Word offers graduate studies courses - this would not be possible if it is not a university. Check out their respective websites which prove that all three universities exist, unlike the PHANTOM SIX UNIVERSITIES of Naga which you invented. 3)I have already said that the DOT's figures for Naga include the entire province of Camarines Sur and as such cannot be compared for their figures for Legazpi City alone. Repeat this 200 times until you finally understand. 4)You keep turning this into a Legazpi versus Naga discussion and your posts have been consistently aggressive and inflammatory. Furthermore, you keep resorting to using silly aliases which fool no one. You are the nuisance and the impostor. You clearly have nothing constructive to add to this article. Indeed a detailed look at all your edits will reveal that they are entirely destructive and pure vandalism. You even claimed in one of your edits that the proposed international airport in Daraga is to be transferred to Libmanan, Camarines Sur!! This is pure fiction. As such, it is you that deserves to be banned. Nice try! --87.194.3.169 12:39, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
1. There is a big difference between regional center and regional capital, for your information. The official Legazpi City website calls the city “regional service center”. We agree. The National Statistical Coordination Board (NSCB), the Philippines’ policy-making and coordinating body on statistical matters considers Legazpi as regional center (why don't you read what the NSCB has to say about the other city so you can come to your senses?). Of course we agree. But nowhere is it mentioned that Legazpi City is the regional capital, EXCEPT in your erroneous Wikipedia article which we will continue to edit for its gross inaccuracy so we can afford Wikipedia readers the true and correct picture about Legazpi, which is also our city.
2. Divine Word College may offer graduate studies. However, for your further education, that alone does not qualify any institution with graduate studies from being considered and called a university. Any educational institution would have to be instituted as such by proper education authorities after having passed rigorous requirements to be considered so. If Divine Word were a university, logically and proudly it would have dropped the College name altogether, faster than you can say you’re logical! So that means Legazpi has only 2 universities.
3. Precisely you cannot say Legazpi is the TOP tourist destination because DOT statistics say Camarines Sur/ Naga City are the TOP tourist destination since 2006. Your simplistic analogy that since Legazpi had statistics all by its lonesome would mean it had bigger arrivals is wrong! The other province’s and other city’s figures are indeed combined (don’t blame me!), so I am sure that cannot be divided exactly between the two, so fewer went to one and more to the other. That being the case, it’s all possible one of the two would have more than Legazpi’s number of arrivals. But let’s just leave the DOT figures as officially given, which means Legazpi is certainly not THE top tourist destination.
4. Again we repeat we are not dealing with nor discussing the Naga City article here, so do not add that place. Now you have added Libmanan. We suggest you put your discussion in good order first as the article and discussion should obviously be all about Legazpi City.
I agree with The Last Honorable Boy Scout in calling upon Wikipedia to ban the previous poster 87.194.3.169 for being such a nuisance, grossly illogical and out-of-order, and for repeatedly maligning well-intentioned editors.--Metro Daraga 14:22, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
I refer readers/editors/administrators of Wikipedia to have a good look at the corresponding discussion on the Naga City article and they will instantly see that MetroDaraga/Last Whatever Boyscout/IsarogLass/Bicololdtimer are one and the same person and that this sad individual has a long history of destructive vandalism, trolling, impersonation and erroneous claims. The Naga City article was full of unverified and erroneous nonsense and was justifiably tagged as unreferenced. It seems, that in retaliation, this poster has decided to do his/her utmost in persistently vandalizing this article in order to maintain Naga's alleged superiority over all other cities/towns in the Bicol Region. As I have said in my previous post:
1) All this hair-splitting over the words "de facto capital" is a direct result of this poster's refusal to accept the fact that Legazpi City is the largest city (in population) in the Bicol Region. The fact that it is the largest in population and not land area is in fact carefully pointed out in the article, partly, it seems, to appease the ego of this particular poster. Very few, if any, city articles actually go to the trouble of pointing this out. Facts are facts, statistics are statistics, nothing more, nothing less - why argue with them?
2) Even if we reword the article, to satisfy this pedantic poster, so that it says Legazpi has three TERTIARY institutions - it still does not make Naga any more "central" or "important" as an educational hub, because unfortunately, it ALSO has ONLY THREE (NOT SIX!) tertiary institutions. And who says the number of universities is the only factor in deciding whether a city is the region's educational center? Legazpi also has medical and nursing colleges, computer colleges and the most number of high schools in the region. Clearly, Naga has no overall predominance in any of these criteria.
3)If the poster is able to come up with DOT figures that focus on Naga City's (as opposed to the entire province of Camarines Sur) tourism data, then we can start to make a fair comparison with Legazpi City's figures. At the moment, MetroDaraga/Boyscout/Bicololdtimer is unable to provide us with like for like DOT figures and resorts instead to repetitive and irrational outbursts.
4)You clearly have something to hide if you do not wish to discuss your ludicrous claim that the proposed international airport has been transferred to Libmanan (a rural municipality). This is just one example of your numerous acts of vandalism in this article. I could spend a whole day listing all your silly fabrications, but I prefer to spare our readers who have suffered enough. Finally, your consistent defense of MetroDaraga/Bicololdtime etc...shows that you have implicitly admitted that "you are all" in fact the same poster. We all knew this anyway, as your choice of words makes it all too painfully clear. Your aim is clearly to show that I am overwhelmed by a tide of opposition from numerous other readers/editors, when in fact, they are all one and the same person - you! Your strategy has failed miserably. I suggest you give up. Once again, it should be perfectly clear who is the vandal, the troll and the impostor and who should be banned. --87.194.3.169 17:04, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
To the Wikipedia administrators, we have said our piece on this particular discussion and own our final say. Discussing further with 87.194.3.169 would only be counter-productive for well-intentioned editors. On my part, I will just refer to my previous discussions in continuing to tag the article to guard it against falsehood. The previous poster 87.194.3.169 persists with his/ her illogical, ridiculous, and bloated claims about Legazpi being “regional capital”, “academic center”, having “3 universities”, “Top tourist destination” when we have pointed in clear, unambiguous terms why these descriptions cannot and should not apply to Legazpi City since these no doubt make the article entirely inaccurate and gravely misleading. We have made our edits with absolutely nothing to do with Naga City, the admittedly more progressive Bicol city, nor with Libmanan (surprise!). However, each time we come up with logical explanations why his/ her claims are not valid and therefore unacceptable, this poster 87.194.3.169 would characteristically introduce new claims that make the entire process circuitous and proceeds to divert attention from his errors by maligning well-intentioned editors through unfounded claims and paranoiac suspicions against and about their persons so that readers are hoodwinked into believing his/ her contentions are the valid ones when nothing can be farther from the truth. I thank Metro Daraga for resolving with me to uphold the truth in this regard and invite other level-headed editors to do the same so that we can assure readers of an unbiased, truthful article about the fair city that Legazpi is. We therefore ask Wikipedia administrators to ban this poster 87.194.3.169 for being a nuisance, always illogical and out-of-order; a threat to Wikipedia’s desire for accurate information; for repeatedly maligning well-intentioned editors; and for repeatedly making false, misleading claims on Legazpi City.--The Last Honorable Boy Scout 02:55, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
This is better than Hamlet! Here we have the interior monologue of our deluded poster. Apparently, he/she had a conference with his/her many alter egos. I await with excitement the latest episode of this soap opera, where our editor not only has frequent changes of career but alarmingly frequent changes of sex. To sum up, we have had: a schoolgirl from Daraga, an Irish-American who's English happens to be awful, a boy scout, a retired banker, a retired lawyer, a retired businessman/woman,(look at the Naga City discussion) ...I suggest you retire yourself permanently from Wikipedia. The admins are too smart to be fooled by your cross-dressing. They know exactly what to do and don't need to be ordered by you. --87.194.3.169 12:45, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
I agree 100% with The Last Honorable Boy Scout because his views and discussions are truthful, logical, clear, and most of all, carried out in dignified fashion and elegant English. Those alone can assure Wikipedia readers of a truthful, unbiased contribution regarding Legazpi City, thank you. Additionally, this is also my final say at least on the subjects of "regional capital", "academic center", "3 universities", "the Top tourist destination". From whatever angle you discuss these supposed descriptions of Legazpi, they do not truthfully and accurately present what Legazpi really is for reasons already cited in my previous discussions here dated Sept. 12, 16, & 20, 2007. The purveyor of false claims (87.194.3.169) who has repeatedly refused our valid edits represents the height of vandalism and can definitely mislead unsuspecting readers. Wikipedia should not allow itself to be an instrument of deceit because of wrongful, misleading information from such illogical source/s and should in fact ban any such contributor who wilfully and knowingly hide the truth, which is against Wikipedia's policies.--Metro Daraga 13:55, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
I have removed "political center", which is really ambiguous in a government set-up that still has political detainees or a history of incarcerating them, and replaced it with "regional service center" which is in accordance with what the official website of Legazpi City says about itself. This seems to be among the contentious issues in this discussion page. Going through the discussions, I can only agree with Metro Daraga and The Last Honorable Boy Scout to whom I should give my applause. To 87.194.3.169 (pls. don't go to the extent of writing that I am somebody else because you will really be out of your mind!) I would like to say you seem to mean well, but I should ask you to help disseminate only factual information about our city. We don't want any dreamer's paradise which may make people expect something that is not there. As a Legazpeño, I only want real hard facts about my city. I think Legazpi folks would naturally also want the truth said about their place. As a proud Legazpeño, it is not easy and pleasing to hear Legazpi is not on top as it used to be (frankly it boils my blood!), but at least what we hear about it is the truth and not just any clever manipulation of words. The truth hurts, but it's the truth, and it will set us all free. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.212.72.221 (talk) 11:25, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
To the above poster, you can use as many aliases, usernames and as many anonymous computers as you like but you will not fool Wikipedia admins or anyone else with your clumsy charade. You could at least make your farce a bit more convincing. As usual, we have to put up with a long and rambling monologue, as well as an entirely irrelevant diversion on political detainees. In future, please keep your posts concise and to the point. What a waste of bandwidth! --87.194.3.169 15:24, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
Kudos to poster 125.212.72.221 for his/ her maturity and level-headedness. At least with editors like you, we are assured Wikipedia remains objective and truthful. Let's stay steadfast and be on our guard always. Thank you.--Metro Daraga 12:04, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
I have removed MetroDaraga's persistent vandalism. This person uses various other aliases such as IsarogLass, Bicololdtimer, The Last Honorable Boyscout. He/She also vandalizes the Naga City article--87.194.3.169 14:38, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
I changed income class of Legazpi City from 1st class to 2nd class to reflect recent changes as of June 30, 2007 in the Philippine Standard Geographic Code/ National Statistical Coordination Board, the Philippines' policy-making and coordinating body on statistical matters. Statistics indicate Legazpi City is partially urban with 46 barangays classified as urban and 24 barangays classified as rural. Pls. follow this link to verify --- http://www.nscb.gov.ph/activestats/psgc/province.asp?provCode=&provName=ALBAY®Code=05®Name=REGION%20V%20(Bicol%20Region)--The Last Honorable Boy Scout 04:12, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
That link is dead/invalid and obviously invented by the above poster for purely malicious reasons. Philippine cities'income classes are evaluated using Census figures and income data - the next Census is not due till 2010. A quick trawl through Google news will quickly reveal this fraud. Like I said before, this is a persistent and childish vandal. Please do not waste your time reading or believing what this poster writes. Nice try! --87.194.3.169 11:51, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
The Last Honorable Boy Scout tried to rectify something that is already incorrect so that the article about Legazpi City becomes more accurate, and we should help him. We should not provide any barrier like what the previous poster 87.194.3.169 is doing. If the link he provided is dead, then follow his lead and search for the truth until it is found. Well, I found it, no sweat. Follow this link that says The Last Honorable Boy Scout is telling the truth Legazpi City has recently been classified 2nd class and partially urban as of June 30, 2007 ---
http://www.nscb.gov.ph/activestats/psgc/default.asp
Nobody can deny official figures especially from an official authoritative government body like NSCB which is precisely authorized to give these official statistics. The problem with the previous poster 87.194.3.169 is that his/ her mind is closed to the truth and that is where the link he/ she mentioned is dead/invalid and obviously invented.--Metro Daraga 14:02, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
I have edited Legazpi's income classification to reflect the latest NSCB data. However, I noticed in the same link that Naga has also been rated as second class and partially urban. I will update Naga City's income status accordingly. Thanks for pointing this out! --Agniilepurohutam 20:48, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
Regarding accusations of vandalism, to be fair, the editors who originally wrote the income class ratings for both cities based their data on the respective cities' official websites, both of which are therefore out of date, as per the NSCB link. I will be watching both the Legazpi and Naga articles carefully for any signs of vandalism. --Agniilepurohutam 20:48, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
Finally a whip of fresh air, hopefully objective. Re Naga, indeed 2nd class, but I read it differently from NSCB as wholly urban, not partially. Pls. check again and state your Naga comments in that city's discussion page. Let's keep the Legazpi article accurate. Thanks.--The Last Honorable Boy Scout 10:25, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
Honorable Boy Scout, I have now made the amemdment you requested, please check the Naga page. --Agniilepurohutam 20:22, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
No need, but thanks anyway. Just make the right, factual edit, that's always my request. I'm sure there are other truthful editors who can contribute meaningfully at the Naga City article. I'll just focus on the Legazpi article where my interest lies.--The Last Honorable Boy Scout 06:18, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/bcl --Filipinayzd 18:14, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Legazpi vs Naga please end the discussion
There is too much comparison being done between Legaspi and Naga. The two cities compliment each other as they belong to the same region. Legazpi is the regional center of Bicol as most of the government centers are located in the city. Naga is undoubtedly the most progressive in Bicol.
Let me state the facts why;
1. Naga has a total of 59 banks as of the last count as compared to 40 in Legaspi City.
2. Naga has been the favorite of huge national developers: Ayala Land; Vista Land, FilEstate, Eternal Gardens, DMCI and home to first class an upscale subdivisions. A Palafox designed golf course is being developed in Pacol, Naga City called Haciendas de Naga by Enjoy Realty. None of the said developers invested in Legazpi.
3. Multinational Companies are mostly located in Naga City: Pepsi Cola Plant, Coca Cola Plant, San Miguel Corporation, Asia Brewery, Unilab,PNB, CDO, Panasonic, Robinsons Corporation, Sutherland in Pili, SM, ABS- CBN Regional Office and GMA Regional office (now being built) and SkyCable to name a few.
4. It is home of three big universities,(Universidad de Sta. Isabel, Ateneo de Naga University and University of Nueva Caceres) and hosts off campus- sites of two huge Manila based universities (Philippine Women's University and UP Open University), and AMA Computer University. These makes a total six unversities. Camarines Sur still hosts another four big universities: University of Saint Anthony and University of North Eastern Philippines both in Iriga City, Partido State University in Goa, and Polytechnic University of the Philippines in Ragay. Together with numerous colleges- they make Naga and Camarines Sur the center for learning in Bicol.
Legazpi is the academic center of the province of Albay. The city has two universities: Catholic institution such as Aquinas University of Legazpi (AUL) --- sister school of University of Santo Tomas in Manila, and the state-run Bicol University (BU), one of the country's biggest universities that is acknowledged as an engineering powerhouse and also renowned for its agricultural and fisheries research.
Two other large colleges, Divine Word College and Bicol College are based in the city. Manila-based institutions are set to establish branches: AMA Computer University is under construction on Rizal Street, while an STI College is nearby. The AMEC-Bicol Christian College of Medicine in Albay District is the first school of medicine in the Bicol Region. Singapore-based Informatics is located at the second floor of GTS Building, Rizal Street. St Agnes Academy, founded in 1912, is a sister school of Manila's St. Scholastica's College.
5. National and international food chains have put up branches in Naga but not in Legazpi- Singapore's Koppi Rotti, Australia's Mocha Blends, The Coffee Beanery, Pizza Hut, KFC, Bacolod Chicken Inasal, Tokyo Tokyo, Fiorgelato, Little Asia and Peaberry. In addition to McDonalds, Jollibee, Max Fried Chicken, Chowking, Greenwich and Shakey's. The latter group also have branches in Legaspi.
These business estabishments also have more branches in Naga comared to Legazpi, McDonalds (3 stores, with 1 outlet at E- mall), Jollibee (3 stores), Biggs Diner (8 stores), South Star Drug (14 stores), Mercury Drug (8 stores). More branches are expected to open once SM City Naga opens very soon.
6. Although Legazpi has it's Pacific Mall and anchor store Gaisano- it also owns a 15 hectare property (3 times bigger than its Legazpi property)at the Almeda highway in Naga City. Robinsons Supermarket is the anchor store on E-Mall in Naga and eyeing to develop a full scale mall in Naga. E Mall is also the only building in Bicol with an underground parking. SM City Naga is set to open this year.
7. Tourist arrivals have jumped to an enormous proportions. According to the Department of Tourism arrival statistics in Bicol, Naga City and Camarines Sur combined are the top tourist destination in Region V, outclassing the province of Albay/Legazpi tandem. The province registered a total of 258,608 visitors from January to December 2006 133,604 visitors in Albay/Legazpi on the same period. The Bicol's premier city and province have jointly breached that mark, posting 350,944 tourist arrivals for the period of January to September 2007 alone. A remarkable increase of 114%. Tourist arrivals in Albay and Legazpi combined only recorded a total of 126,897 for the same period or only an 18% improvement from last year's record.
8.The recent tourist boom have also resulted to a hotel boom in Naga. New hotels have sprouted like mushrooms. Avenue Plaza Hotel (the only 5 star hotel in Bicol), Villa Caceres, Regent Hotel and Sampaguita Tourust Inn are currently expanding, Plaza View Hotel (8 storey) in top of Jollibee is set to open. Nagaland and Sunny View Hotels have recently opened.Just recently the upscale Genesis Hotel Group have signed a pact to manage the CWC in Pili. Lately, Landco Corporation has already showed its intention to build a five star hotel in its property in Naga City.
Legazpi also has its share of hotel developments. The Bicolano owners of Hotel Venezia and Hotel St. Ellis (the Old Hotel La Trinidad) inked a contract with a Manila based hotel group and will be managed by the Discovery Group. A local trader from Sorsogon is also refurbishing the old Mayon International Hotel and hopefully would become the second five star hotel in Bicol next to Avenue Plaza Htel in Naga City.
The construction of Legazpi City International Airport hopefully would result to influx of investments and tourism-related developments such as the now on full-swing development "Embarcadero", Misibis Resorts, Estates & Spa, windmills and mini-hydroelectric plants and the Cagraray Waterworld Park in the Sula Channel.
The Japanese Government also recently visited Cam Sur for the finalization of its own international airport. Seeing a boom in the Cam Sur tourist arrival, it would be a build -operate transfer scheme and expected to be realized very soon in Libmanan. Since the funding would not come from the Philippine Goverment, there is even a possibility that this airport would be completed ahead than the airport of Albay. The town will be connected to Canaman by a bridge thru the Bicol River and will be accesible to Naga in less than 15 minutes of travel.
Cam Sur Tourism is also axpected to peak more in the future as Caramoan is now being predicted as the next Boracay. The highly popular Survivor Series, the French version is being shot there and The Hollywood version would also be shot after the French Crew wraps up.
9. Car dealers have established thier distributorship in Naga, Hyundai, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Suzuki and Kia are based in Naga. Compared to Kia and Gencars in Legazpi. Unfortunately, after the typhoon Reming, Gencars (distributors of Isuzu)which was flooded buring the typhoon, would be moving its operation to Cam Sur anytime this year as it is set to start the construction of its Naga Showroom in Roxas Avenue. Suzuki used to be based in Legazpi but moved to Naga after the typhoon.
10. Two of the biggest hospitals with the most number of fellows and board certtified physicians are located in Naga.Bicol Medical Center (BMC), used to be called Bicol Regional Training and Teaching Hospital (BRTTH) until it was upgraded by the Department of Health (DOH) into a full medical center in the early 1990’s. Albay Provincial Hospital in Legazpi subsequently became the new BRTTH. Bicol Medical Center is the only training hospital in Bicol offering complete residency training programs accredited by the Philippine Medical Association’s component society in almost all fields of medicine. It offers specialty training in Internal Medicine, Pediatrics, General Surgery, Obstetric and Gynecology, Anesthesiology, Radiology, Ophthalmology, Otolaryngology, Orthopedics and Traumatology. This is also the base hospital of the Helen Keller Foundation where eye specialists all over the country are trained and later assigned in different parts of the Philippines. The hospital is still unmatched in the region on the number of diplomates and fellows with different specializations it produced for the past fifteen years. BMC is the only DOH- officially acknowledged and classfied medical center in the Bicol Region.
Universidad de Sta. Isabel- Mother Seton Hospital (USI - MSH), is the biggest private hospital in the Bicol Region based on the number of admissions, medical equipment facility, number of beds available, physical structure and number of board certified medical consultants. It is the only private hospital in Bicol offering specialty training programs accredited by the Philippine Medical Association’s component society in major fields of medicine, like in Internal Medicine, Pediatrics, and General Surgery.
Did I forget something? Or need I say more? I hope this would end the bickering. Legazpi is the regional hub in Bicol and Naga is the Economic Hub.
None of it could claim as the Capital of Bicol.
True Blue Bicolano.
[edit] Naga/Cam Sur Bicol's Tourist Hub; New DOT Stat for 2007
LEGAZPI CITY --- Posting an impressive 77 percent improvement over previous year’s performance, Naga City and Camarines Sur combined took the highest number of tourist arrivals in Bicol, more than half of the regional total for the year 2007.
In a report on the regional distribution of travelers in Bicol prepared by the regional office of the Department of Tourism here, Naga/Camarines Sur registered a total number of 456,911 tourists, domestic and foreign, for the period January to December last year. This is slightly more than half the regional total of 897,680 tourists that visited Bicol during that period.
The report also showed that Naga/Camarines Sur’s performance is also about three times higher than the number of tourists posted by erstwhile top tourist drawer Legazpi/Albay which garnered a total of 141,855 tourists or an increase of only 6 percent over previous year’s performance which was 133,440 in 2006.
Next higher performer over previous year’s record is the island province of Catanduanes which posted an impressive 76 percent increase, from 29,026 in 2006 to 51,055 tourist arrivals in 2007.
The other island province of Masbate produced a total of 107,008 tourists, or 39 percent higher than its total tourist arrivals of 77,130 tourists in 2006.
Camarines Norte posted an improved performance of 10 percent, from 73,539 in 2006 to 80,936 in 2007.
Of the six provinces in Bicol, only Sorsogon posted a negative 8 percent in its performance as it was only able to draw a total of 59,915 tourists in 2007, which was 5,369 short of its 65,384 tourists recorded in 2006.
Sorsogon, despite its Butanding, is also known to be rebel-infested where there have been incidents of clashes between government troopers and the communist guerrillas, aside from the alarming cases of extra-judicial killings by both sides.
Both Albay and Sorsogon felt the brunt of recent volcanic eruptions and ash falls and were heavily battered by floods and typhoons during the past two years.
Still, Naga/Camarines Sur registered the highest number of foreign tourists in 2007 at 45,626 compared to Legazpi/Albay’s 36,608.
From January to September 2007, according to an earlier report by theDOT regional office, Legazpi/Albay was leading in the number of foreign tourists, 36,000 vs Naga/Camarines Sur’s 28,851, until the figures changed during the final quarter of the year of the year with Naga/Camarines Sur finally breaking away with almost 9,000 foreign tourists more.
In the previous year, or in 2006, Naga/Camarines Sur also outclassed Legazpi/Albay in foreign tourist arrivals, 25,832 vs 8,765.
While the total regional tally of tourist arrivals totalled only 897,680, or 103,320 short of hitting the one million mark, Bicol nonetheless recorded an improvement of 41 percent over previous year’s performance. In 2006, Bicol was able to draw a total of 637,127 tourists, both domestic and foreign.
The total number of foreign tourists that came to Bicol doubly improved from 49,304 in 2006 to 105,608 in 2007.
Of the six provinces, Masbate posted the least number of foreign tourists at only 2,645, followed by Camarines Norte with 2,744.
Catanduanes took a big leap in drawing foreign tourists, from 3,181 in 2006 to 10,390 in 2007. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.9.52.185 (talk) 16:19, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
