Talk:Left-foot braking

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Contents 1 Untitled Comment 2 Street Use 3 LFB and Turbo Spool 4 LFB with auto transmission 5 Accident stats 6 Clutch Pedal force

[edit] Untitled Comment

In relation to a driver accustomed to using their left foot soley for clutch use I would agree that it applies even to cars which don't have a "heavy" clutch as mentioned in the Corvette example below. It's not so much that the clutch on your car needs to be heavy when an inability to left brake effectively will occur, it's more a case of how heavy your thottle pedal is as it's very rare that the force needed for both clutch and throttle are the same. Therefore attempting to left brake even in a Nissan Primera with a relatively "light" clutch compared to say a Corvette, the same result can occur; namely a left leg that is stronger than the right one which can result in an unexpected rapid decelaration as you press the brake with the force you would normally use for a heavier clutch. In summary the left leg is accustomed to a "heavy" clutch, the right leg is accustomed to a "light" throttle; and so when both legs are tested to press the same pedal (the brake) the left leg will through habit press harder than the right leg.

If left foot braking applies exclusively to fwd cars, why did Peter Brock use it so often at (for e.g.) Bathurst? Tannin

It is completely untrue that left-foot braking is exclusively for front-wheel drive cars. Almost all F1 drivers use left-foot braking, many having had much experience with it in karting, which requires this technique. With the advent of F1-style computer-controlled shifting in performance cars, eliminating the clutch pedal and thereby the use of the left foot for shifting, this technique will become more and more accessible for ordinary drivers.

• I have added the other use of left-foot braking. 999 16:33, 1 May 2004 (UTC)

Isn't the two uses quite different? In the rally version you push both pedals at once, in the F1 you just use the left foot to break to avoid having to move the foot. // Liftarn

It is STILL not true about the rally car use - 4WD drivers use left foot braking too, almost exclusively. //Magnus

[edit] Street Use

Added citations that discourage left foot braking. However the article should recognize that there is debate about the topic, but a proper citation is needed. Unfortunately I was unable to find any worthwhile sources to cite regarding this, just various message boards discussions. If someone can find an article, government website, training academy, or any proper source that either states left foot braking is okay (in some or all circumstances) or makes mention of the debate, that would be perfect. Tmpst 21:42, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

The article should distinguish between two cases.

• left-foot braking as a an alternative to right-foot braking for simple deceleration
• left-foot braking as a method of adjusting the vehicle's handling during cornering

There may well be a school of thought that says the first is a bad idea (though in principle there's no reason it should matter which foot is used). But the second is quite definitely a viable technique for overcoming inherent handling characteristics of the vehicle, such as FWD understeer, and should not be discouraged.

--Tedd 06:43, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

I removed the comment about it providing no benefits on public roads (from the intro). The benefits provided on track are present also on public roads, whether a person should be seeking out those benefits on public roads is another matter entirely and also quite subjective. It could be argued that the benefits of decreased delay between acceleration and breaking, and the weight transfer benefits, can be put to good use at legal speeds. In fact, with a skilled driver, LFB might be the 1 foot difference between a close call and an accident (thinking about the decreased delay here). Tmpst 20:46, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't see why LFB is potentialy dangerous for everyday street use, including panic situations. The argument about "rapid acceleration" seems at least wrong to me. I think the article must be edited so that it will reflect the debate around safety. If noone disagrees I will try to find some sources and edit it myself. By the way, some of the references are missing, the article needs cleanup. --racergr 23:27, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] LFB and Turbo Spool

I was under the impression that ALL rallye drivers used left foot braking before the advent of misfiring systems to spool up the turbo mid-turn. I suppose you're supposed to be able to balance out the acceleration and braking while increasing your revs at the same time, just as if you were accelerating, thus, spooling the turbo.

And, of course, it works with large turbos on street and/or racing to break the boost threshold faster. Automatic cars, in particular, utilise this technique, especially with a large turbo while drag racing. I think that LFB in regards to turbo spool should be included in this article.

It's somewhat moot in rallying, as nearly all WRC-level cars use an anti-lag system. Counterfit 08:45, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] LFB with auto transmission

The changes made in May by SpinyNorman introduced what seem to me have been an POV problem: this section opened with the unqualified statement thst "This practice is not recommended for drivers of road cars."

There are two, conflicting, schools of thought on the routine use of LFB when driving an automatic, and one inbetween (LFB for low-speed maneouvring, but not at other times). Wikipedia should try to fairly represent both viewpoints. Unfortunately, SpinyNorman's changes left the article seriously unbalanced.

I don't know if what I have done now is as balanced as it should be, but I think that this section is a lot better than it was. --BrownHairedGirl 14:55, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

I think that the practice of LFB in and of itself is neither safe nor dangerous. However, I think that certain applications of LFB are safe or dangerous. For instance, chances are that a professional racer practicing LFB is safe, where a sixteen-year-old novice in an unfamiliar car in rush-hour traffic is not safe.

Perhaps we need to reflect this.

--BarnacleKB 01:23, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

That sounds like a good idea, if you can find sources to cite. But I think it would be inappropriate for any of us to simply editorialise on our own judgments. --BrownHairedGirl 08:03, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

I think you're right. Any references to it being safe or dangerous need to be removed unless properly cited. --BarnacleKB 22:14, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Left-foot braking is considered dangerous by government driving organizations in the US, Canada, UK and Europe. The reasons are as simple as they are obvious - in an emergency situation, the "panic reaction" is to extend both legs and if one of them is on the throttle, that means unintended acceleration. Remember the trouble Audi had with "Sudden Acceleration Incidents"? It wasn't, as some had assumed, the placement of the pedals or some bug in the electronic fuel-injection system. It was the fact that, as the lowest priced European sports sedan in a time when European sports sedans were trendy, it was bought by a lot of people who used this preposterous left-foot braking technique but weren't used to cars with so much power. So, when they panicked and floored the accelerator, the car leapt out of control. --SpinyNorman 20:04, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

SpinyNorman, you clearly have strong views about LFB. However, lots of people do use it safely, and there are two sides to the debate, so I have now restored my previous version of that section.

This is because, unfortunately, your edits to the article are entirely one-sided, and your comments on the safety benefits of LFB in low-speed maneouvring are simly wrong: have you ever driven an automatic car? Not all automatics creep (the new VW/Audi DFG garboxes don't), and those that do creep often require use of the accelerator pedal as well.

As I wrote above, if you have any sources to cite on the merits/demerits fo LFB, let's see them -- but the only reference above is one I added. But in the meantine, please stop adding unsourced POV material: statements such "This practice is not recommended" have no place in Wikipedia unles they have a source. It would be fine to write "this practice is not recommended by X", but for that you would need sources: Wkikpedia is not a place for original research. --BrownHairedGirl ^{(talk) • (contribs)} 19:17, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

If you can find a website or something where it says Left-foot braking is considered dangerous add it; or if you find where US, Canada, UK and Europe driving orgs state it. Outside Center 19:27, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

I have once again edited tis article to restore the argument in favour of LFB with auto transmissions which had been removed and replaced with unsourced POV assertions. There are two points of view here, folks: WP:NPOV requires that both be presented fairly, and sourced.

There is a clear argument (backed up with accident reports) for using LFB whilst maneouvring. Where anyone thinks that argument is "correct" is not the issue on wikipedia: our job is to present both sides of the debate fairly, with references. Unsourced assertions and removal of opposing sources does not comply with NPOV. --BrownHairedGirl ^{(talk) • (contribs)} 01:44, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

LFB is discouraged because it is undesireable. I personally wouldn't go so far as to say the practice is dangerous in and of itself (except in a panic situation). However, the fact that VAG have deliberately implemented technology to prevent it and the fact that it is discouraged by driving instructors and car manufacturers the world over should be taken into consideration. Let me ask you something BrownHairedGirl, do you use LFB? --Lee Vonce 16:05, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

"discouraged because it is undesireable". Sources?

"I personally wouldn't go so far as to say". With all due respect, neither your opinion nor mine is relevant here.

I have reinstated the text which you removed about those who advocate LFB. Please do not remove it, or I will seek admin intervention. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 19:49, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

This being my own view on LFB, If the person has never done it before ever, trying to pratice in rush hour traffic is not advised by me. But just trying to work the brake with the left foot on a off road, stoping at red lights and slowing down with it will get you used to driving using LFB. I autocross and Daily drive using LFB. the Problem about people extending out both feet is mostly l because of the lack car control they have in different situations. When I first started trying it, it was weird, the left foot can't vary its pressure on the pedal well enough, which means either you get on the brakes to much or not enough, you just have to Keep trying at it. --Justin aka TechSalvager —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.151.82.48 (talk) 01:22, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Accident stats

Is there any truth to the rumor that left foot braking causes more accident? If so, where can I find statistics and include a section of that in the article? I would like to help. - Pernambuco 00:31, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Clutch Pedal force

"Also, when the left foot is often used for depressing the clutch pedal this generally requires more force than operating the brake." I suppose if you drive a Corvette, this is true, but I have to wonder how many cars have that heavy of a clutch pedal. Counterfit 08:49, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

It's not how much force is required, but how much force drivers are used to. I think what it should say is that drivers are habituated to quickly pressing the clutch all the way down, and that this instinct could cause them to brake much more violently than intended if/when they try to lfb without thinking about it. Tmpst 02:00, 15 May 2007 (UTC)