Talk:Lazarus
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[edit] Historical Evidence
Do we have any historical evidence outside of the bible to suggest that either Lazarus was a real person. Please add some sources. If not then the first sentence should be altered.
[edit] Software
"Lazarus" is also a well known software. lazarus.freepascal.org
[edit] Question
So the Bible didn't say why Jesus raised him from the dead? --Menchi 14:09, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC)
- It seems that Jesus was rather upset about the news of Lazarus' death, and also that he was a close personal friend (or friend 'of the family'). The Secret Gospel of Mark may indicate an even closer relationship.--81.156.179.151 20:13, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)
[edit] Osiris
Could we have a name of one of the `scholars` talking about Osiris in this context? In my opinion this paragraph is speculation at best and doesn`t warrant inclusion. User:Andycjp 13th March 2005
- It's been over a year, and no citation has appeared, so I removed the dubious paragraph. Wesley 06:43, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Software
Information on the Lazarus software project has been moved to Lazarus (software) Peter Grey 04:21, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
[edit] "Unrelated" uses
The X-files clearly is related, and Swarbrick's group.
Whilst other characters mixes related and unrelated.
-- Beardo 05:07, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Disambiguation
In the disambiguation page says that this article is about the Lazarous who was raised from the dead by Jesus. All the reference related to the Lazarous of the Parable must been moved to the article Lazarus and Dives.
[edit] Site error?
As of August 26 2006 trying to load the Lazarus article brings up only a blank white screen. Perhaps this is a database error?
JohnH 19:48, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
Update: As of August 28, this problem seems to have been fixed. JohnH 20:43, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Did Lazarus die a second death?
Just out of interest, since Jesus raised Lazarus from death, would it not be theologically logical (a theological loophole in a way) that Lazarus would just continue to live forever, because biological death was completely reversed (Lazarus had already began to decay)? 6 Nov 06.
Interestingly, in some esoteric circles this is exactly what is believed to have happened. Various esoteric writers have identified figures such as the Comte St Germain and/or Christian Rosenkreutz as being Lazarus. Indeed I have read one author argue that John the Beloved (the disciple mentioned in the Gospel of John as lying on Jesus' breast at the Last Supper) was Lazarus. Interesting ideas. ThePeg 00:08, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
The usual Christian theology is that Lazarus certainly did die a normal death again. In Nikos Kazantzakis' Last Temptation of Christ, Lazarus is killed by the Zealots shortly after his new life. Tb (talk) 01:56, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Two Different Lazaruses? (Lazarusi?)
The article begins by stating the Lazarus of the parable (Luke 16:19–31) and the Lazarus that Jesus resurrects (John 11:41–44) are two separate characters. However, this assertion doesn’t seem to be defended by citation. While this may be a traditional interpretation of the New Testament, it is not the only one possible. In the alternative, the authors of Luke and John could have been telling radically different stories about the same character named Lazarus. This would be in line with other discrepancies between the gospels, for instance the difference in Jesus’ last words according to Luke 23:46 as opposed to those at John 19:30. Plaidscreen 21:02, 2 February 2007 (UTC)Plaidscreen
- The difference is deeper than that. In John's gospel, Lazarus is a character, a part of the tale. In Luke's, Lazarus is merely a name used by Jesus in telling a story. Tb (talk) 01:55, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] The "In modern culture" trivia section
I've made an effort to drastically reduce the number of examples of Lazarus in pop culture, because, besides making it clear that Lazarus is entirely pervasive in all different forms (movies, music, tv, etc.) pop culture, the examples provide no new information relevant to the article. Therefore, including every last example is totally unneeded. Now, if you can provide some evidence that your example for a particular form of media is more notable than the current example, feel free to replace the current example with your own. (Please discuss the change here, first). johnpseudo 03:16, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
I agree, with some slight caveat. I think this is a good rule of thumb. But the overriding principle is: "how does this addition help to understand Lazarus better?" Pointing out tha Lazarus is pervasive is certainly a help, and unending lists is not. But if there is an edit which is a mere addition, but which also helps the user understand Lazarus better, I think it would be ok. The comment added by johnpseudo is a good rule of thumb, but the real test is the usual one: does this help the reader understand the topic of the article? Tb (talk) 01:53, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
Agreed that lengthy lists can be tiresome, but part of understanding Lazarus better is to give clear evidence "that Lazarus is entirely pervasive." I believe this resonance is important in an of itself irregardless of how the examples may illuminate our understanding of the original parables. So I don't think this section needs such strict limitations (such as deleting an existing example before adding one that is more significant). I suggest that this guideline be modified to: "addition of new examples must be accompanied by an argument that they as significant as existing examples." That said, I'd like to add two example from popular music that I believe are at least as significant as the two already cited. Woody Guthrie's "Dead or Alive (Poor Lazarus)" from the 1940's and Nick Cave And The Bad Seeds' "Dig, Lazarus, Dig!!!" a 2008 album where the parable of Lazarus resonates throughout the album's lyrics most especially in the title track. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Xpdt (talk • contribs) 15:44, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
- Your standard is a poor one. It tends to Listiness. Instead, how about this: don't add examples unless they better make the case that Lazarus is pervasive. How does knowing fifty famous and important songs make the case better than knowing forty-five? Tb (talk) 20:26, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Requiem quotes
This paragraph from the article doesn't seem to make any sense: 'In the section In paradisum, which often appears embedded in the Requiem, the deceased is wished to Paradise—In paradisum deducant te Angeli— with Lazarus, who once was poor (cum Lazaro quondam paupere); the text reminds us how often the Lazarus of John, who possessed a rock-cut tomb and was resurrected, has been conflated with the beggar Lazarus of Luke.'
The quotations from 'In Paradisum' don't in any way suggest that it is Luke's Lazarus that is being talked about. I would change it myself, but I'd rather wait for a second opinion (change it if you agree).163.1.143.131 (talk) 23:11, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
