Talk:Lawesson's reagent

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Dear All,

About the Lawesson's reagent page, I feel that ~K has harmed the page by making the article on lawesson's reagent concentrate too much on the thionation of carbonyl compounds. I think that it is intellectually dangerous for a chemist to consider a molecule to be able to engauge in only one type of reaction.

For instance any chemist who is any good will be able to think of several reactions which common salt can take part in. eg NaCl with H2SO4 gives HCL gas, AgNO3, TlNO3, Pb(NO3)2 give different insoluble metal haldies and electroylsis gives chlorine and caustic soda. These are three very different reactions.

I think that if ~k (who is a medicinal chemist) wants to have a page devoted to thionation chemistry of LR, then he could make such a page seperate to the general chemistry of LR which Iron/cadmium wrote about.

• I follow progress on this page with great interest and I have some comments: I think that in all fairness that user ~k has been re-editing this article too rigorously, a lot of material was simply deleted. It is a simple operation to reroute Lawesson biographical material to its own article. I also notice that nowhere I can find an example of a reaction that makes use of this reagent, this should really be included in Wiki. I agree that the reagent page should be dealing with the reagent itself foremost and then its uses provided examples are included

PS by typing 4 tildes in a row your name and date are printed. like this: V8rik 16:54, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Dear V8rik,

Thanks for your thoughts on the subject of the Lawesson's reagent page. I think that a page devoted to the general chemistry of the dithiadiphosphetanes should be writen and also I will add an example to the LR page of a reaction.

Sorry for failing to sign my name correctly,

Cadmium 19:45, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

I apologize for offending anyone. That was not my aim. I tried to focus the article on LR itself. I removed the material about Lawesson and the material about dithiaphosphetanes because they are off-topic. I felt that some of the reactions given were quite esoteric and would detract from the main usage of LR: an oxophilic thiation reagent. A seperate page on Lawesson and a seperate page on the chemistry of dithiaphosphetanes is an excellent idea.

The deleted text is still in the database and can be retrieved at any time. If you feel that it's important to put back in, then do so.

Question: What is Lawesson's first name? All I can find are his initials.

~K 21:23, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

This is a reply to V8rik. As you may already know, thioketones and thioamides are incredibly useful intermediates in the syntheses of a multitude of heterocycles. You cannot find examples of LR in the Wikipedia because of a fundamental problem of the Wikipedia: Each page must have a title, so how do you title something that doesn't have a title (or a simple title). For example, say we want to write a page about the various methods of transforming an amide to a thioamide. The material is not the issue. The title is the issue. There are dozens of ways to title such a page. Until WikiProject: Chemical Reactions gets underway and standardizes this, it will be a mess. Until then reactions are either named, organized by reactant, or organized by product. Walkerma and I had a long conversation about this regarding the chemistry of indoles. You can still find it on his talk page. ~K 21:38, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Hi ~K, No need to apologize, you did nothing wrong, you did something different which I do not agree with. I had the same discussion with someone on the fullerene page where things were deleted and I aired the concern that Wiki chemistry at the moment is actually shrinking instead of growing. My take on this: if you feel something is esoteric, simply deport it to a separate article. You raise an interesting question on the naming game. Some time ago I did a small piece on IUPAC Nomenclature for Transformations related to this issue. In the claisen rearrangement discussion section I raised the possibility of naming reactions ourselves and not wait for appearances in the primary literature, after all, the Chen-Mapp Reaction still sticks but only in Wiki. In general I am in favor of getting rid of the chemical transformation section in organic reaction and move all transformations to the appropriate functional groups but that's a different discussion.

Dear ~K,

I have created a page on the dithiadiphosphetane disulfides (try saying that in a hurry !) and I think that the best thing will be if we move the general chemistry of LR to this page on dithiadiphosphetane disulfides, please could you tell me how we can copy parts of the early version of the LR page to the dithiadiphosphetane disulfides page without the loss of the formatting.

One point that I think I should make you aware of is the fact that a wide range of phosphorus sulfides exist many with very different properties. I think that it is very important to remember that P4S10 is very different to some of the others. Also P2S5 does not exist, it is another term for P4S10, the crystal strucutre of the PS compound is an adamantane like strucutre.

About S.O. Lawesson, sadly I do not know much about the man other than what is in the chemical literature, I have added to tha page on him a few details about some of the other important people in the LR story. What sort of details do you think the community want on the chemists.

Cadmium 10:46, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

Good point about phosphorus sulfides and P2S5. To access older versions of a page, go to the history link at the top of the article page. Clicking on a date will give you an older version of the page. You can copy that text, or you can select edit to view the raw markup. (If you edit an old page, do not press 'Save page' unless you are reverting to an earlier edit, which in this case you are not.) I hope this helps. ~K 16:37, 30 October 2005 (UTC)