Talk:Latin rap

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ok now about reggaeton. its true that there is many talented artist out there trying to make there way through that barrier. but it also radio station's fault for now reconizing good music. i tell you man reggaeton is blowing up. And we have artist like tego calderon, daddy yankee and don omar leading the way. but we also need the radio's help. like for example the radio station in new york 97.9. they claim that they play plenty of reggaeton. its not really true, because when they do play reggaeton during the day its like 3 or 4 songs and its the same songs everyday. only some times on the weekend they play some real reggaeton. but my point is we need some one to step up and help these artist. we have that channel "mun2" they play some reggaeton but they play one of the oldest video or they just play the same one over and over. but right now im just gonna relax and wait for reggaeton to appear on some english radio stations. because i know for a fact reggaeton is gonna be all ova the u.s. in a couple of years. reggaeton will big so bigger than hip-hop right now. so lets just watch the count down.........BITCHES

I just reverted these edits because they were a copy & paste from [1]. Dear 63.186.49.177, if you had permission to insert this copyrighted text here, then please state this explicitly. But even if you had, I think the text would have needed reworking and merging with the existing text. Don't get me wrong, it's a fine website with lots of information. I will add a link to it. regards, High on a tree 11:45, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] link vandalism

To make a weak (and ineffective) claim that you can't link to a gallery is one thing, to remove links that provide resources directly related to the wiki subject (articles, links, interviews) is downright childish and inarguably constitutes vandalism. The sites are relevant ant the two most authoritative on the subject of Latin Rap, the links aren't going anywhere. And save the threats on sprotects, when your account is brand new and you yourself can't even edit the page anymore (You had to beg someone else to do it).

According to the rules of wikipedia, being relevant isn't the only requirement. You can't just randomly include a related link. Also, them being the most authoritative is subjective. You called me a latino hater, thats whats childish. I had to ask someone else to sprotect it, yes-- but once its sprotected only new users and spamming anons like yourself can't edit it :)--Urthogie 07:47, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
Read Wikipedia:External links, you'll see that what you're doing is not allowed. Do it again and you'll be blocked for a certain period of time.--Urthogie 07:47, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

According to the External Links page:

What should be linked to:

Sites with other meaningful, relevant content that is not suitable for inclusion in an article, such as textbooks or reviews (both sites contain reviews)

Sites that contain neutral and accurate material not already in the article (which both do)

Maybe OK to add

Web directories: When deemed appropriate by those contributing to an article on Wikipedia, a link to one web directory listing can be added, with preference to open directories (both sites contain the most extensive directories of Latin Rap sites on the web)

The Latin Rap wiki contains material from both sites, and both sites contain a wealth of information not already on the wiki. The links have been there for months, and they will continue to stay on this wiki.

Sites with other meaningful, relevant content that is not suitable for inclusion in an article, such as textbooks or reviews (both sites contain reviews). Reviews of artists! This isn't an artist's page.
The fact is that the other contributors, aside from your anonymous buddies(who im guessing are YOU because they have no edit histories besides these links) think these links are spam. I'm posting this on the administrators noticeboard to inform them of your attacks on my person as well as spam throughout wikipedia.--Urthogie 08:16, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Urthogie, can you please provide an explanation as to why you think the external links added by the anonymous IP are 'spam'? They look like valid and useful sources of information to me. - ulayiti (talk) 19:01, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Gladly, please don't revert before I do though. These sites have been posted together all throughtout wikipedia, brownpride.com and latinrap.com. They are affiliates, and its clearly a sign of advertising, that they are indiscriminately places on all possible articles they could touch on. Consensus refers not to discussion here, but the fact that people revert them whenever they can because they are advertisers.--Urthogie 19:05, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
Can you give me an example of another article where they've been posted? Can you give me an example of another editor who's removed the links from this page? Consensus on Wikipedia should not be achieved through edit warring, but through reasonable discussion on the talk page. Still, I see no other editors with the same point of view as yours.
I'm afraid the burden of proof here lays with you. You have to demonstrate that the additions are not suitable for Wikipedia before removing them. If you don't do this, the links will be restored. - ulayiti (talk) 19:16, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Reggaeton&diff=34329517&oldid=34326136

Reggaeton had a ton of editors who kept reverting (probably sockpuppet) anons who verbally attacked us for doing this. It was sprotected by an admin for this reason. precedent was set. a set of anon's has been circling wikipedia trying to get brownpride.com and latinrapper.com on every page they can.--Urthogie 19:40, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

  • What does the Reggaeton page have to do with you constantly removing links on this page? First off, the argument that was made with the reggaeton page edits seem to deal with the issue of photos, which isn't related to the inclusion of links on this page. Any "precedent set" seems to be hastily done and doesn't seem to apply to the edits to this page. Second, my IP address has nothing to do with any edits made to the reggaeton page, so you are trying to make connections that don't exist. It is very obvious that you are edit-happy, urthogie, from all the negative feedback you get on your discussion page, there seems to be a pattern here.
  • Different link. The one in reggaeton was a link to 'reggaeton concert pictures', which could easily be considered spam. Here, however, the links are to useful sites with lots of information on the subject matter of this article. Try to assume good faith. - ulayiti (talk) 23:35, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

I feel uneasy putting this site up and its affiliate as the only ones. I'll accept this, but I'm going to dwarf it with better ones, so the advertisement value is dwarfed by the information value. Deal. --Urthogie 23:49, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Also, I apologize to the Anon if I've incorrectly assumed bad faith. I just associated you with link vandals and that was wrong of me.--Urthogie 23:57, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure who linked Latin American hip-hop to here on the world hip-hop panel, but that seems pretty inaccurate - this article is basically just about artists in the U.S.--STLEric 23:38, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Latin Rapper Criteria

Someone at Hunter college has made some really good contributions to article with respect to Latinos in the early years of hip hop, but isn't quite on point about who is considered a "Latin Rapper" and who isn't. I've removed some comments about Haitians and noticed that this was just added to the article: "Italian, French, Castilian (Spanish), Portuguese and Romanian. Anyone who speaks a dialect of these languages can be considered to be a Latino." A Latino is someone who comes from a people that speak Spanish, or whose people share a cultural bond with those of Spanish speaking countries. Italians, French and Romanian people do not consider themselves Latino just because they speak a Romance language. Italians, French, and Haitian people do not check off "Latino" when filling out educational or government forms, nor do they indicate that they are Latino on U.S. Census forms. Gerard Depardieu, Al Pacino, Robert Deniro are not considered "Latino" actors. They will never be recognized at any "Latino" film award ceremony. Bill Richardson is considered by the press as the only Latino candidate for President, Rudy Giuliani isn't, see where I'm going?

French, Italian and Haitian rappers have never been nominated for a Latin Grammy or a Latin Billboard award, so this isn't just an issue of personal opinion. Furthermore, you will never read about a Haitian or Italian rapper referring to himself as "Latino", feel free to provide links if you find something to counter this point. DJ Muggs is Italian, as the producer for Cypress Hill he has never refered to himself as Latino. If you do a search for "Latino Rapper" or "Latin Rap" on the web and visit the authority sites, none of them mention artists like Wyclef Jean, Tony Yayo, JoJo Pellegrino, etc. Create an informal poll on one of these sites and ask Latinos if they consider Haitians and Italians to be Latino, or if rappers from france are considered "Latin rappers".

So between what wikipedia considers "Latino", what the U.S. government considers "Latino", what Film and Music awards consider "Latin Music Artists", and what authority sites consider "Latino Rappers", the evidence overwhelmingly suggests that Haitian, French, Italian and Romanian rap artists are not considered "Latin Rappers". The music award ceremonies alone should be a concrete example. 68.159.27.242 19:52, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Progressive thinking

Many Hispanics at one time did not consider themselves to be Latino either. Hispanics do not have ownership of the term nor do they run the litmus test of who is and who isn't "Latino". The interchanged use of the term is not only inaccurate; it is also very regional and limited to certain countries within the Western Hemisphere. In actuality Castillian speakers (there is no such language as Spanish) are less Latino than Italians since the Latin language comes from what is today called Italy.

In a worldwide community we have to be accurate and be progressive. To make references in hindsight limits you from providing accurate information. The Cubans that run the Latin Grammys nor the Mexican groups who adopted the term (and many times don't consider anyone of African decent to be Latino) do not set the criteria, especally when they are mis-using the term in the first place.

Latinos were the citizens of the Roman Empire for more than 2000 years. You cannot just erase that history because some Castillan speakers in the United States stake a temporary claim to a label. My suggestion to you is to create a section for Hispanic or Spanish rap, but make sure not to include Brazilians because they do not speak "Spanish" either. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 146.95.69.203 (talk) 21:48, 15 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Not bizarre, just not narrow

from the american heritage dictionary:

Latin (lăt'n) n. The Indo-European language of the ancient Latins and Romans and the most important cultural language of western Europe until the end of the 17th century. The Latin language and literature from the end of the third century B.C. to the end of the second century A.D. A member of a Latin people, especially a native or inhabitant of Latin America. A Latino or Latina. A native or resident of ancient Latium.

adj. Of, relating to, or composed in Latin: a Latin scholar; Latin verse. Of or relating to ancient Rome, its people, or its culture. Of or relating to Latium, its people, or its culture. Of or relating to the languages that developed from Latin, such as Italian, French, Spanish, and Portuguese, or to the peoples that speak them. Of or relating to the peoples, countries, or cultures of Latin America. Of or relating to Latinos or their culture. Of or relating to the Roman Catholic Church.


From Columbia University Press:

Latin America

Latin America, the Spanish-speaking, Portuguese-speaking, and French-speaking countries (except Canada) of North America, South America, Central America, and the West Indies. The 20 republics are Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Cuba, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Guatemala, Haiti, Honduras, Mexico, Nicaragua, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Uruguay, and Venezuela. The term Latin America is also used to include Puerto Rico, the French West Indies, and other islands of the West Indies where a Romance tongue is spoken. Occasionally the term is used to include Belize, Guyana, French Guiana, and Suriname. Bibliography

See H. M. Bailey and A. P. Nasatir, Latin America: The Development of its Civilization (3d ed. 1973); J. K. Black, Latin America: Its Problems and Its Promise (1984); J. W. Hopkins, ed., Latin America: Perspectives on a Region (1987); B. Keen, A History of Latin America (1988); A. Gilbert, Latin America (1990); E. A. Cardoso and A. Helwege, Latin America's Economy: Diversity, Trends, and Conflicts (1992); J. A. Crow, The Epic of Latin America (1992); E. Williamson, The Penguin History of Latin America (1992).


Latin America (Portuguese/Spanish: América Latina) (French: Amérique Latine) is the region of the Americas where Romance languages — those derived from Latin, namely Spanish, Portuguese and French — are officially or primarily spoken. Latin America is distinct from Anglo-America, a region of the Americas where English is spoken.


Latin

The language of ancient Rome. When Rome became an empire, the language spread throughout southern and western Europe.

The modern Romance languages — French, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, and a few others — are all derived from Latin. During the Middle Ages and the Renaissance, Latin was the universal language of learning. Even in modern English, many scholarly, technical, and legal terms, such as per se and habeas corpus, retain their Latin form.



Definition

Latin America:

From a strict cultural and linguistic perspective, it would include all countries and territories in the Americas where Romance languages — Spanish, Portuguese, French, and their creoles — are spoken.

Geopolitically, Latin America is divided into 20 independent countries and several dependent territories. Spanish is predominant and an official language in most Latin American countries, with the exception of Brazil, where Portuguese prevails and Haiti, where Haitian Creole is the dominant language.

Etymology

Originally a political term, Amerique Latine was coined by French emperor Napoleon III, who cited Amerique Latine and Indochine as goals for expansion during his reign. While the term helped him stake a claim to those territories, it eventually came to embody those parts of 'the Americas that speak Romance languages initially brought by settlers from Spain, Portugal and France in the 15th and 16th centuries. An alternate etymology points to Michel Chevalier, who mentioned the term in 1836. [2]


Quebec, other French-speaking areas in Canada and the United States like Acadia, Louisiana, Saint-Pierre and Miquelon, and other places north of Mexico are traditionally excluded from the sociopolitical definition of Latin America, despite having significant populations that speak a Latin-derived language, due in part to these territories' not existing as sovereign states or being geographically separated from the rest of Latin America. French Guiana, however, is sometimes included, despite being a dependency of France and not an independent country.

As alluded to above, the term Ibero-America is sometimes used to refer to the nations that were formerly colonies of Spain and Portugal, as these two countries are located on the Iberian peninsula. The Organization of Ibero-American States (OEI) takes this definition a step further, by including Spain and Portugal (often termed the Mother Countries of Latin America) among its member states, in addition to their Spanish and Portuguese-speaking former colonies in America.

Language

Spanish is the predominant language in the majority of the countries. Portuguese is spoken primarily in Brazil, where it is both the official and the national language. French is also spoken in smaller countries, in the Caribbean, and in French Guiana. Dutch is the official language on various Caribbean islands and in Suriname on the continent; however, as Dutch is a Germanic language, these territories are generally not considered part of Latin America.

Several nations, especially in the Caribbean, have their own Creole languages such as Haiti in which their Creole is a mixture of French, and African tongues along with Spanish and Indian influences to a lesser extent. The Creole languages of Latin America derived from European languages and various African tongues. Native American languages are spoken in many Latin American nations, mainly Peru, Guatemala, Bolivia, Paraguay, and to a lesser degree in Mexico, Ecuador and Chile. Note that the lesser degree of indigenous speakers in Mexico is proportional to that country's population. In real numbers, however, Mexico harbors the largest population of indigenous speaker of any country in the Americas, surpassing Amerindian majority countries of Guatemala, Bolivia and the Amerindian plurality country of Peru. The population of speakers of indigenous languages in other countries is tiny or non-existent.

In Peru, Quechua holds official language status, alongside Spanish and any other indigenous language in the areas where they predominate. In Bolivia, Aymara, Quechua and Guaraní hold official status alongside Spanish. Guarani is, along with Spanish, the official language of Paraguay, and is spoken by a majority of the population who are for the most part mestizos bilingual in Spanish. In Ecuador, while holding no official status, Quichua is a recognized language of the indigenous people under the country's constitution, however, it is only spoken by a few groups in the Sierra region of the country. Colombia, while having fewer than 1% of its population as speakers of indigenous languages, recognizes all indigenous languages spoken within its territory as official. Nahuatl is only one of the 62 native languages spoken by indigenous people in Mexico, which are officially recognized by the government as "national languages", along with Spanish.

European languages, other than Spanish and Portuguese, that are spoken include; 'Italian in Brazil', Argentina, Uruguay and to a lesser extent Venezuela; German in southern Brazil, Argentina, and two German-speaking villages, one in southern Chile and another in northern Venezuela; Welsh in southern Argentina.

[edit] ================================================================

Here is a couple of articles where this matter is discussed.

Political Scientist Specializes In Latino Politics, Public Opinion

By Tom Krazit Growing up in El Paso, Texas, Adrian Pantoja lived the realities of border politics and immigration policies that are now a part of his class work at UConn. The Rio Grande was a place to fish, or cross on a regular basis to visit family and friends in Cuidad Juarez on the Mexican side.

"Diversity in the Northeast lends itself to a greater discussion about what it means to be a Latino," Pantoja says. For example: "Are Haitians Latinos? They share the same island as the Dominican Republic. Some would argue no, they don't speak Spanish, and have a different historical influence. And I would argue that if it's just a matter of language or culture, would we say that Brazilians are not Latinos? These are issues that we wouldn't be speaking about in the West."

http://advance.uconn.edu/2004/040223/04022308.htm


October 16, 2006

Why aren't Haitians Latin?

John Fay at Irish Eagle mentions a letter to the editor of the Miami Herald which pointed out that Portuguese-speaking nations such as Brazilians, for example, weren't "Hispanic". In the course of noting that this was the reason for popular use of the more inclusive term "Latino", it occurred to me that while it would be reasonable to infer that the latter term embraces speakers of all Latin tongues, in practice, it refers exclusively to speakers of Spanish and Portuguese.

The island of Hispaniola contains two countries: Haiti and The Dominican Republic, the former Francophone, the latter Spanish-speaking. So far as I can tell Dominicans are, like their fellow Caribbeans from Cuba, considered to be Latinos, while those from the western half of the island, like other French-speaking Caribbeans, aren't.


Posted by: Frank McGahon | October 16, 2006 at 04:54 PM

I have a book called A History of Latin America by George Pendle (Pelican, 1980s) which claims: "In general usage...'Latin America' means the twenty independent republics which arose in the territories in this area [i.e. the Americas south of the US] that once belonged to the Spanish and Portuguese empires, and the old French colony of Haiti."



Below is a discussion from Yahoo that I just found.

Why arent Haitians considered Latino?

If Brazilians are considered Latino because they speak a Latin derived language, the shouldn't Haitians be considered Latin by those same standards? What is the difference between a black person from the Dominican Republic who speaks Spanish and a black man from Haiti who speaks French? They both speak a Latin derived language and have a Latin based culture. So why is there a difference between them in the US? If we're going to be LOGICAL about this and call people Latino, then we should include ALL of the Latin derived speaking countries as such.

The term Latin America was coined by Napolean. He wanted his rule to extend to Latin America because it was ruled by Latin Empires: French, Spanish and Portugese.

Americans get your ethnic labels right!

Additional Details 1 week ago Uh...Jethro you should look up the LATIN UNION...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/latin_union...

http://www.unilat.org/sg/index.es.asp...

An official organization leading to unite all Latin peoples who have a united Latin culture.

1 week ago Mariah Jai are you on crack? The French are a Latin Culture. They speak French and are from the Latin derived culture of the Romans. They are like the Italians and the Spanish. So a Dominican who speaks Spanish is Latino, just like a Haitian who speaks French is Latino too. What is wrong with many of you who think otherwise when even the French think of themselves as Latin and thier colonies are considered Latin colonies. Does anyone else have any sources, data or articles that can contradict what I put up?


Unfortunately, nothing that you have stated changes the fact that popular acceptance of what a Latino is, or a Latin rapper is doesn't include Italians, Haitians or the French. I'm not sure why you found it relevant to refer to the Latin Grammy as being "Cuban-run", but the fact of the matter is that the two most significant Latin music award shows in the U.S. do not recognize Italian, Haitian, French, Romanian performers and producers as "Latin" music artists. Its also odd that Afro Latinos like Celia Cruz have performed at these shows, but you state that the people behind the events don't accept Blacks as Latinos. If you believe that they are improperly using the term "Latin" or excluding their fellow "Latinos from Romania" as nominees, you seem to be in the minority as no one has publicly criticized the Latin Grammys or the Latin Billboard Awards. Again, you can't dismiss Wikipedia's own definition of what a Latino is, what every U.S. dictionary defines a Latino as, what the U.S. government defines a Latino as, and what every Latin music award show uses as their criteria. If you disagree with the fact that Haitians, Romanians, Frenchmen and Italians are not allowed to check off "Latino" on government documentation, you need to take that up with the U.S. government and not use personal point of view as evidence. I'm not creating a separate article because their are Latino artists that happen to rap in English rather than Spanish. You also state that "Spanish" as a language doesn't exist, which again doesn't seem quite relevant to why you are editing the page. The bottom line: you are basing your changes on a personal opinion that very few people, if anyone, would seem to share. Any admin would have to base their decision over whether or not a change is acceptable on evidence, so far I've been the one providing this evidence of how "Latino" or "Latin Rapper" is commonly used as. We can't base the entire article on one person's interpretation of history or what they feel is accurate or inaccurate, show me a variety of sites or books that explain why Romanian and French rappers are Latino Rappers and I will be more than happy to let you edit the article. 68.159.27.242 23:36, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
Since you just added a new section, I'll respond to that as well. Residents of Haiti are not Latino because of Proxy, just like Guyana and Suriname generally aren't considered Latin American countries even though they are in South America. The majority of what you have posted comes from Yahoo message boards, its overrun with POV statements. If you wanted to use a forum as evidence, I'll gladly create a poll on a Latin Rap site like Brownpride.com and ask how many Latinos there consider Haitians to be Latino, I already know the results will be. You can't consider Haitians to be Latino by virtue of proxy, the only reason why Haiti is questionably a Latin American country is because is shares an island with the Dominican Republic (yet is culturally different and does not Spanish speak, just like Guyana). Aside from the fact that Haitians are not considered to be Latino, the article is about Latin Rap, and artists that are commonly understood to be Latin Rappers. If you believe that Haitian rappers are Latin Rappers, why can you not demonstrate that they have been referred to as this or even refer to themselves as "Latin Rappers" or "Latino Rappers"? Pastor Troy, Wyclef, Tony Yayo have never been called Latin Rappers and have never called themselves Latin Rappers. Can you find any of these artists on a Latin Rap site? Any Romanian artist? Are the people who listen to Latin Rappers all wrong? 68.159.27.242 23:36, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Oh I see why you keep editing this. You're Mestizo or Indiginous and you're from the West coast?

I hate to tell you this but Mestizo Spanish speakers have nothing to do with the formation of Hip-Hop. You have no authority over this culture. HipHop comes from the Bronx. This is a Black thing and the Puerto Ricans who were there were Black; not Brown. African not Meztiso. No wonder you are so upset about the Haitian thing. You're just a racist.

The truth comes out.

Whatever a poll on Brown Pride.com has to say doesn't matter. You are on the outside looking in. Just because you speak Spanish doesn't mean you get a pass and it doesn't make you down. Period.

You have no idea of what my background is, what my involvement in the Hip Hop movement has been or how many articles I've written for Hip Hop magazines. And I don't need to elaborate on why I'm an expert on Hip Hop and Latin Rap, because its not relevant to this discussion. You were disproved, now you've regressed to wild assumptions and personal attacks. It doesn't matter if I'm a Black Puerto Rican from Bed Stuy or a Korean guy living in Seoul, Wikipedia articles are based on the facts that contributors can present, not personal opinion or anecdotes about how Rakim gave you a pound at some bodega back in '89. So keep making laughable assumptions if it makes you feel better, I've presented the facts and that's what any wikipedia admin will recognize first. 74.230.204.50 02:46, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] No vandalism, Just facts.

I have presented the meanings of Latin from The American Heritage Dictionary as well as from a journal from Columbia University. As well as various texts that are not from wikipedia that define Latin America as not exclusively Spanish speaking nations. I also have referenced the book "Americanos" where it is stated that Haitians are Latinos in the introduction. There are other journals and texts but I should not have to state them all as the assertion of DJ Dr, Dust for example was never challenged. As a professor in Latino Studies at this College and as someone who has written extensively about Hip-Hop culture which I experienced first hand from the 1970's in the Bronx; I believe that I am not only an authority the subject of Latinos but Hip-Hop as well.

Spain has 5 languages. Castilian is the language that people in the western hemisphere call Spanish, but Spanish citizens don't all speak Castilian as their language. Some speak Catalan, some speak Vasco. But Castilian is not the only language derived from Latin. So the current domination within the United States only by people whose families come from countries where Castilian is the government’s language narrowcasts the picture. Again, use of the U.S. Census does not constitute authority on a cultural level, as the term Latino predated use by the United States government by 20 years. In addition if we are going to present accurate information on a worldwide level we cannot reference only the U.S. Governments definition, because historically they are behind the times. Brown Pride and Latin Rap.com do not have the final say on this subject either. The editors choose to include whom they want based on their definition of Latin. Look at any dictionary and Latin is the language of the Roman Empire and the mother tongue of the languages aforementioned. There isn't any harm in stating that because it is technically correct in the historical use of the term Latin. 2,000 years of usage does not get eliminated because one group has adopted the term in the last 20 years. We have an obligation to show the entire picture, not attempt to create a homogenous ethnic group that technically does not exist. If you eliminate the text kills any chance for pro-active growth. If wikipedia is going to reflect current trends and usage it must be allowed to support other ideas. If the fact is debatable then we can state that "this definition is still debated and up for discussion"; especially when Latino is a term that is continuously evolving. Columbia University and Hunter College both have journals on Latino identity that profile Haitians as Latinos, (which I did not write) even though many "Spanish" speakers may not consider them so. But I guess thats not enough.

Again, millions of young people use Wikipedia every day and they should be privy to all of the information. Eliminating the inclusion of certain groups based on recent very Amerocentric adaptations stops the free flow of information and doesn't show a world wide picture. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 146.95.69.163 (talk) 18:36, 16 March 2007 (UTC).

There's little point in going back and forth with you. At this point you have regressed to personal attacks and outright racist statements (namely that Latinos not of African ancestry know nothing about Hip Hop, that Latinos on the West Coast collectively disassociate from what the East Coast considers Hip Hop, and how the East Coast collectively views
Your edits become completely invalid when you make blatantly POV statements such as "Latino rappers of Mestizo and White parentage, they have claimed to be "left out" of Hip-Hop" and "For many on the East Coast especially in New York, this community is looked at by some as spurious and is not in the spirit of Hip-Hop." There is absolutely no basis for either statement, you are speaking on behalf of millions of people on two U.S. coasts based on your own perception.
Rather than engage in discussion, you then vandalize the page by removing links to sites dedicated to Latin Rap and replacing them with links to general hip hop magazines and movies, and by changing categories. You initially didn't add racist comments to the article, when your edits were reversed you then began making racist statements within the article and talk page, and changing the links out of spite, you make it evident to any admin that you're editing in bad faith at this point.
Finally, I'll sum this up one last time so its perfectly clear to any admin with even a limited knowledge of Latin rap or Hip Hop so that they can lock the page from edits if you persist with your vandalism and POV edits. 1. Latin Rap is understood as rap music performed by Latinos, not rap performed in Ancient Latin and not performed in Latin derivatives such as Romanian. 2. While Haiti shares an island with the Dominican Republic, the Haitian government does not consider its inhabitants to be Latinos, nor does the U.S. government. 3. The Olmos intro refers to Haiti being in the area of Latin America, at no time does it refer to Haitians using the word "Latino" 4. Frenchmen, Romanians and Haitians are not considered Latino just because they speak a Romance language. There no literary source in existence which supports your view that every man, woman and child in France is considered Latino. 5. No Latin music award show in the world (including the Latin Grammys and Latin Billboard) accepts nominees from Haiti, France, Romania, Italy. 6. The U.S. media does not consider French, Romanians, Italians and Haitians to be Latinos, which is why Bill Richardson is considered by the press as the only Latino candidate for President and Rudy Giuliani isn't. What you have here is concrete evidence of what most people consider Latinos, what most people consider Latin Rap to be, and why French, Haitians, Romanians and Italians are excluded from being referred to as "Latin Rappers". What you have presented to counter these facts is a collection of POV message board comments, an false reference from a book by an actor, and your personal opinions of why anyone who is not of African descent is not allowed to edit Hip Hop articles, how two entire coasts feel about one another, and why Spanish isn't a real language. None of these factually support the argument that you are trying to make, which is why this article has remained accurate for years until now. 70.149.187.166 19:52, 16 March 2007 (UTC)