Talk:Lassie (1954 TV series)/Archive 1

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Jeff's Collie

I am pretty sure the show was called Jeff's Collie in its original run for the entire time that Rettig played Jeff. I am pretty sure the name was not changed to Lassie until the Jeff character left the show. Can anyone confirm this?--MMan710 02:24, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Color format?

When did the series change from Black and white to color? Dogru144 09:37, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:O Parents.JPG

Image:O Parents.JPG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 17:33, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Excessive number of Fair Use images?

I believe this article may have an excessive number of Fair Use images, thus not complying with NFCC 3(a). Aside from the show's title card, at most there should be only one Fair Use image of the cast from each era of the show i.e., the Rettig years, Provost years, Robt. Bray, etc. JGHowes talk - 22:07, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

This image was tagged non-free by DO11.10talk on January 9, 2008, so I'm deleting all but 3 non-free images plus the title card, i.e., one for each of the three different casts/plots during the series' 20-year run. JGHowes talk - 00:40, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Key Episodes

I've tagged this section for NPOV as no source is given stating that these are "key" episodes and they seem to have just been selected based on personal opinion. Collectonian (talk) 10:57, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. Vote for deletion. ItsLassieTime (talk) 15:44, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Overall cleanup

This article is in need of MASSIVE clean up to bring it in line with the TV MOS and to remove a lot of unsourced or badly sourced stuff, fancruft, trivia, etc. The character list is badly done, production information is all over the place and makes for a jumbled read, there is no episode list, etc. etc. The reference section is a mess due to the mix of real refs and just a list of stuff that is supposedly used as a reference but lacking in footnotes to show where it is. Collectonian (talk) 10:57, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Trying to bring some order to cast list. Any suggestions? Should list be alphabetized by performer's last name, character's last name, by dates of first appearance? Thanks! ItsLassieTime (talk) 15:54, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
Hmmm...probably by order of appearance would be best, with years noted since the cast changed a few times. The MOS can also help with the basic format for the character section. :) Collectonian (talk) 16:08, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
Cast should probably be in table format, as cast listings usually are. Equazcion •✗/C • 18:51, 11 Feb 2008 (UTC)
That would not be in keeping with the Television MOS. Tables are a last resort when a cast list is just actor and role. Collectonian (talk) 18:56, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Animal cast section

I'm wondering about reducing this list. Any thoughts? List is too long and practically competes with rest of cast lists in length. It might be wisest to list just recurring animals like Domino the horse, Pokey, the basset hound, and Sam, the hound dog. Thoughts?ItsLassieTime (talk) 19:33, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree, I think we should get rid of all of them except those regularly ones like those you mentioned. The one episode and generic ones definitely don't need to be mentioned.Collectonian (talk) 19:44, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
OK! I'll take care of it. And look forward to your review! ItsLassieTime (talk) 19:46, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

BW and color

Lassie went from filming in black and white to color but I can't find the date. Anyone know? I think the information should be included in the article. Lead, perhaps? Production notes? I'll continue to look for the date but if someone has the answer, please jump in!ItsLassieTime (talk) 19:48, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Good question. I know it was in the ranger years, but I can't remember if it was at the start or somewhere afterwards. Collectonian (talk) 19:52, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
According to the infobox, it was 1964. Of course, that's unsourced but CBS was going from b-w to color around that time JGHowes talk - 20:09, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
Sounds like the start of season 11 is probably it then (which is also the start of the ranger years), but definitely need a source one way or the other. Collectonian (talk) 20:20, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
I think the first ranger year with Corey Stuart (or part of it) was b/w. That would have been the Fall 64 -- Spring 65 season. A few episodes from the year are currently shown on one of the "On Demand" channels and the episodes are in B/W. Perhaps it was the following Fall 65 -- Spring 66 season the show went color. ItsLassieTime (talk) 20:38, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
I'll do some reason tonight, see if I can find something definitive. So far, I only found one fansite which says it was the first Ranger episode, but I seem to remember some of those being in black and white as well. Collectonian (talk) 21:28, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
One site says season 12, Fall 1965-Spring 1966 was the first color season. http://episodes.lassieweb.org/lassie12.htm ItsLassieTime (talk) 21:42, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
Yep...so we need to find a good source for it (as both mine and that one are fan sites and not reliable sources. I wonder if its mentioned in the Collins book at all. Collectonian (talk) 22:41, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Character List

It seems like there are least a few sources available discussing the selection of the main cast members of the series, which means we should be able to have a full prose cast section as described in the TV MOS. As such, should we consider redoing that section to reflect that, and, if we feel its needed, move the existing character list off to a standalone List of Lassie characters? Collectonian (talk) 09:19, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

In agreement. Use sources to create a Main Cast and set it in prose. I vote for a standalone "list". Some main characters, I believe, can and should be mentioned briefly in the plot section to give readers some direction. You have good ideas! 209.244.189.88 (talk) 13:01, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
Cool...I can give that a whirl soon if no one beats me too it. Timmy, Paul, and Ruth have their own articles already (for whatever odd reason), so that can be a starting point to giving their characters full info even if a full merge can't be done right now. Collectonian (talk) 14:47, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
OK! What did you have in mind? I liked the prose version I was doing (it retained all the information except Chandler who was moved to recurring characters. Let me know! ItsLassieTime (talk) 15:24, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
Well, my thinking was more along the lines of what film MOS has, but then I realized, our TV MOS doesn't do the same thing and the existing list already meets that. With the film MOS, the cast/character is primarily for noting X was select for this role because of Y & Z, that kind of thing. But for the TV articles, it looks like that should go under the production details instead. I got my MOS' confused :( Sorry :( Collectonian (talk) 15:29, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
I like your funny little :( faces! Come on, cheer up! I like the idea of a prose section rather than bullets. Too many bullets. And definitely a standalone list if possible. Very brief mentions of stars and characters in plot and production. ItsLassieTime (talk) 15:35, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
I took a look at some of the featured TV articles, and, here and there (especially with large casts), the cast/character sections were rendered in both bullets and prose, or bullets, or prose. No one consistent style in featured articles. Flexibility. Something to consider. What works best for this article? That's the question. 15:53, 13 February 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by ItsLassieTime (talk • contribs)
Yep...with such a large cast, we may need to do some experimenting to find a style that works best here.Collectonian (talk) 16:02, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Good job, Collectonian!

Production notes are great -- thorough, readable, and to the point! What about putting the cast list into prose? It's late and I'm wide awake. I'll give it a go. Revert, if you prefer or think otherwise! ItsLassieTime (talk) 09:51, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm...thanks for giving the cast to prose a whirl, but it didn't quite work like I was thinking it would and ended up being a repeat of the plot and production sections, so for now I've changed it back to a list. ~goes to think some more~. Collectonian (talk) 15:18, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
It's difficult to avoid rehashing material from other sections of the article. I'm wondering about expanding the lead and look forward to seeing your work with it! ItsLassieTime (talk) 15:31, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
Agreed...the lead will need expansion, but we should probably put it off until the rest of the clean up is done (since the lead should summarize the article). That way we won't have to keep editing it as we find more stuff to add/modify. Out of curiosity, do you have access to any of the other Lassie non-fiction books or documentary type stuff? If not, I'm going by the A&M Library today so I can look to see if they have any. Collectonian (talk) 15:33, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
PLEASE! Locate as many materals as you can! I have the Collins book and Provost's memoirs. Also a TV Guide from the Robert Bray years. Incredibly, for one of the longest running and most popular shows of its day, there is not a lot of published non-fiction material about the show. Boo ... hiss! ItsLassieTime (talk) 15:38, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
Looks like all A&M has is Rudd Weatherwax's training book, but since it was written in 1971, I'll take a look to see if he talks about the show in it at all. Collectonian (talk) 15:41, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
I couldn't find the book on the shelf, so I'm gonna file a find/recall request for it (mmm...being university staff does have nice library perks LOL). Collectonian (talk) 00:58, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Episode List

I have the basic episode list mostly done. I just need to fix the colors, directors, and writers for each one. My basic plan is to have a List of Episode page with the basic lists, then individual season pages for the 19 seasons. At first I was going to do by "arcs" but for the Timmy years, it was already too big without any summaries. How does this sound for everyone (and anyone ready to help add in summaries after the pages are in place :-P )? Collectonian (talk) 20:24, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Wow! You deserve our thanks for the accomplishment! I'll be glad to help with summaries! Can't wait! ItsLassieTime (talk) 20:40, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Anyone have any suggestions for other possible places to find the director/writer information for the series? TV.com seems to have all of the directors, but there are quite a few gaps in writers. As an update, I finally found 19 different colors for the season tables (so fun!), and I have the writer/director info that I was able to find from TV come entered for the first three seasons. The episode list template is being changed, so if anyone is looking at the work in progress, it might look odd at the moment since I've gone ahead and start using the new code (as it has specific fields for director and writer *grin*). I'm also using a show specific template for the page, similar to what is being done with List of Lost episodes. When moved into the main space, this will allow us to only maintain one set of episodes (or at least, one per season page), with those list transcluded into the main list of episodes without the summaries. :) Collectonian (talk) 04:20, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Another update: The template change is done, so the episode list is almost ready to go into the main space so others can help fill in summaries and stuff. I'm just waiting until I can learn how to hide the shortsummary field if there is no summary, due to having to make a special template for things. Collectonian (talk) 08:07, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

The episode list is done and I'm getting it into the main space now. Will probably take me another hour or so to finish getting the pages created. I've put inuse on all while I get them in place and fix any minor issues. Only the first four seasons have the writers and directors set right now. I plan to keep working on both those and adding summaries, but of course anyone else wanting to help, just leave a note here or on the appropriate season page once the inuse's are down to note you're gonna work on that chunk. :) Collectonian (talk) 20:20, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Color seasons 1965?

I found one reference to the color seasons beginning in 1965 in a TV Guide article about Robert Bray dated August 13-20 1965. The article doesn't mention an exact date when color episodes would be regularly filmed and aired but does say future episodes would be filmed in color. I think it's implied that the color episodes would begin with the Fall season '65. Can we use it? I'd rather be exact but no other info at present except LassieWeb. ItsLassieTime (talk) 16:30, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm...I think that might get too close to original research, since we can't say for sure that episodes for the fall season hadn't already been filmed in black and white, and Bray wasn't referring to episodes after those. Collectonian (talk) 16:47, 14 February 2008 (UTC)