Talk:Lassie (1954 TV series)

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

↓    Skip to table of contents    ↓
TV
Television Portal
This article is part of WikiProject Television, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to television programs and related subjects on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
Start This article has been rated as start-Class on the quality scale.
Mid This article has been rated as mid-Importance on the importance scale.
Assessment comments
WikiProject Dogs
Dogs Portal
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Dogs, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to articles on Canines on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
Start This article has been rated as start-Class on the Project's quality scale.
Mid This article has been rated as mid-importance on the importance scale.

Article Grading: The article has been rated for quality and/or importance but has no comments yet. If appropriate, please review the article and then leave comments to identify the strengths and weaknesses of the article and what work it needs.
To-do list for Lassie (1954 TV series): edit · history · watch · refresh

Here are some tasks you can do:
  • Verify: Find and add references for all unreferenced information; Verify existing references, and move those just thrown in reference section to inline where verifiable
  • Cleanup: General clean up to formatting and organization to bring in-line with MOS; convert lists to prose where appropriate
  • Expand: Add production section; Add character section; Add reception section; Add episode list (currently being worked on by Collectonian)
  • NPOV: General neutrality check to ensure fan love is minimized
Archive
Archives
1


Contents

[edit] Response

I'm loving that this article is really growing in sourced material. One caution I think we need to observe, though, especially with the response, is to be sure anything noted is directly tied to the show, and not honors specifically for the dog Lassie. Several items seem like they might be borderline and possibly need to be moved to the main Lassie article. Collectonian (talk) 17:21, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree, in part. Lassie's role as environmental activist was directly tied to the show and should be noted in this article. Appearances on other tv shows? Well, Lassie would never have made guest appearances during the show's run except for being the show's star. The Jack Benny and Ed Sullivan appearances were made with Jon Provost, making it more or less a "show" recognition. Provost would never have made guest appearances on either show except for being the star of Lassie. We've noted elsewhere in the article that Lassie received a spot on the Hollywood Walk of Fame. This honor was probably based on the character's entire career rather than just the tv series and perhaps should be moved to the Lassie article rather than retained here. I think we should return the tv guest appearances, they were made during the show's run and prompted by the show's popularity. Numerous guest appearances attest to the show's popularity rather than promotion, as Lassie really needed no publicity. BTW, I'm wondering how the episode list is coming along? I love to see the directors, writers, etc. I'm thinking it would be great to get the list in here ASAP for any Wikiusers interested! :) ItsLassieTime (talk) 18:12, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
That's the tricky part. Lassie was a star already, so can we say for sure that she wouldn't have had the appearances without being on the show? Probably not, but for the ones like the JB and ES ones, it should be noted that she was with Jon Provost so its clearer that it was a show promotion. Of course, the other question is, does that indicate response or is it trivia information? Its relatively common for actors to go on talk shows to promote their series, so was there something special about these appearances that made them unusual enough for extra noting?
For the episode list, I have all the eps in with air dates, broken into the "arcs" and seasons. Now, for the slow process of setting the director and writer (I have the fields in, but with default values so much correct). I suspect that will take a little longer. :) Once that is done, I'll move it into the main article space and then do the break outs for each season page where the summaries will go. Collectonian (talk) 18:24, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
Agreed. Nothing special about the guest appearances. Delete. :) Looking forward to the Episode List! ItsLassieTime (talk) 18:50, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Cloris Leachman

What exactly is POV about the section? The section is not a personal analysis but material cited closely from two sources. People are fired from television shows all the time. What's POV about that? Perhaps something can be rephrased. The subsection is referenced in two independent sources and a generally accepted part of the Lassie television story. It's omission would be a disservice to the truth. It is my understanding that our job as editors is not to "blank" a page but to improve it. Please bring your ideas here to the discussion page before deleting edits to the article or blanking pages. This is a shared endeavor and not the bailiwick of one. 209.244.189.88 (talk) 08:23, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

I asked you not to readd it, but to discuss your addition first. The page has not been blanked, only the NPOV addition has (again) been removed as being inappropriate. The section is full of non-neutral language and show an obvious biased against Cloris Leachman. Neither of the sources are that independant, and there is no need to spend 2000+ characters to discuss their being fired nor does it need to be an entire section. Half of what you included is already discussed in the article. We aren't here to provide minute detail about every last aspect of the series, nor are we here to reprint Collins entire book. This isn't a gossip column, but an encyclopedic article. And yes, it is a shared endeavor and I'm not the only editor who works on this article, just the only one awake at the moment (it seems). As I said in my note on your talk page, lets discuss it here FIRST to see what the salvageable parts of your addition there are and how to incorporate it into the article.Collectonian (talk) 08:42, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
The content is now in the article, put in the proper section and significantly shortened to tell just the facts and not include a lot of unnecessary opinion and commentary. Collectonian (talk) 08:53, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Martin family image

Do you have the Wikipedia rule regarding the use of images under evaluation by administrators? I'd like to check it out for further downloads. TeaTackle (talk) 09:22, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

There is no hard and fast rule, however it simply makes sense. If the image is deleted, the article will be left with an ugly hole and red link, and someone will have to go back and find the original image and put it back. There is no reason not to wait until the fate of the image is decided before putting it in the article. Collectonian (talk) 09:25, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
I believe there's a 48 hour evaluation period. If the image is not deleted by administrators in the time period, will that mean the image can be used in the article? The image I think needs to be linked to an article or it will be considered "orphaned" and deleted. Rather than "replacing" the article's existing black and white image, I'll place the color image elsewhere in the article and await the evaluation -- just to be on the safe side. I'm concerned the color image will be deleted as an "orphan". TeaTackle (talk) 09:34, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
Orphan requires it to be orphaned for 7 days after being tagged, so no need to worry about it being deleted. If an administrator marks the image as being okay, then yes, it would be okay for use. I do wonder, though, if it is an improvement as the series was filmed in black and white, so a black and white image would be more accurate. However, if others support a color image, I'm fine with its replacement once an administrator okays it for fair use. Collectonian (talk) 09:36, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
I'll await evaulation before uploading. Image for discussion of this article's editors... Image:MartinFamilyLassie.jpg TeaTackle (talk) 09:47, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] New Sections

I've set up sections in compliance with Wikipedia's Guide to Writing about Television Shows. Let's leave it this way for a while until other areas and sections are brought into line. Reversed Characters and Plot sections per Wiki's Guide to etc.

Also I think the fictional elements about the show should be separated from the production notes/details because they're essentially a rehash of material found in the plot section. Keep the "true life" elements in the production details section and delete or move the fictional elements to plot whenever possible. ItsLassieTime (talk) 21:18, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

I had to undo your edits as the guide was updated not to long ago (literally, a few hours ago, to reflect the current consensus from FA television articles, et al). I did, however, immediately go back and reorder it per the new guidelines, which I'm guessing was your goal.  :) I'm going through now to put back any other changes you made. Please add some additional context for the quote, though, as right now my first question was "who is he and why do I care what he said?" :P I'm not sure I understand your last comment? Can you give an example? Collectonian (talk) 21:29, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
Do you have the link to the updates? Thanks! I really need to read through it before I go stumbling about! The article looks good! You've done a great job! I think you should now expand the intro because you a very good writer and ... "wrap the whole thing up"! I'll look for real life and fictional examples in the Production notes. Your episode lists and guides are just great! Must have been labor intensive! Good job! I'll see what I can find on Jenkins. the quote seems to me a reasonably cogent analysis/comment without infringing on the Wiki reader's rights. ItsLassieTime (talk) 21:45, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
No prob, and sorry if I seemed I was stepping on your toes. It was easier to go back and redo, than redo again :) I put a link the guidelines in my talk, but probably good to link here too so here ya go Wikipedia:WikiProject Television/How to write about television programs. There is still some discussion on whether reception should go above media (right now the guide has below). For now, I've left it above as it makes the most logical sense to me. :P If anyone would like to weigh in, the discussion is at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Television#Section order. I agree on the need to redo the lead. I've been putting it off while we flesh out the article more, but probably a good time to at least give it another go. Hopefully we can really expand the reception section some more, since I think (if it can be sourced), the long running appeal and popularity of the series should be covered. Collectonian (talk) 21:53, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Cast Section

The cast section of the article is looking horrible long and confusion. I think we need to consider the example of Degrassi: The Next Generation, and switch to a prose format which handles the large list better and will let us tighten up the section so it is not so daunting and overwhelming. We can have then just have two prose sections under Cast, one for the main cast and one for the recurring/special folks. This also avoids it being so redundant with both production and plot, which already establishes who did what in the series.Collectonian (talk) 07:28, 24 April 2008 (UTC)